Gstar Ex

[jjjnettie]

I'm taking the plunge today and ordering the Gstar Ex. :D
Exciting stuff! I'd nearly saved up enough cash for it, but hubby said I may as well get it now. ( It only took 3 days of nagging:whistle: )
With no laptop to go with it, I've had to use a bit of skull sweat to work out how I'll be able to use it.
My solution is this;
Nick the DVD recorder from the telly, plug the Gstar to the AV in, then hook up the portable DVD player that has a 7" LCD screen to AV out so I can see what I'm capturing.
The beauty of it is that I can start and stop the capture using the remote control, because I'll still be having to guide the scope by hand. (tracking is still a long way away)
I'm so looking forward to seeing what it can do.

[ving]

Ooo!!! exciting! :D
let us know how you go jeanette :)

[duncan]

Hi All,
Are you going to use it on the Dob? This will be very interesting to follow and see how you go. It's what i wanted to try but still saving the pennies.
Cheers,
Duncan:thumbsup:

[jjjnettie]

Duncan, yes, I'll be using it with the Dob.
I thought that I would only be able to use it for planets, but Steve assured me that I should be able to do dso's, even with no tracking.
Can't wait to find out.

[ving]

sweet!!!

[Dennis]

That is fantastic news Jeanette - you're going to have some great fun (as well as some trying times no doubt!) with that set up. Even now, I still find it quite magical whenever an image of a remote celestial object appears on my screen, whether from ToUcam, DMK, ST7 or Pentax sensors.

Cheers

Dennis

[jjjnettie]

But Dennis, aren't the trying times half the fun?
It'd seem wrong if it all went perfect first time round.

[Phil]

Hi Jeanette
I have that camera and it is a great little camera i use my as a electronic finder with a little tiny LCD screen on my telescopes. It has about .0001 lux which makes it very sensitive to light. Very good camera hope you enjoy.
Phil

[[1ponders]]

Great buy Jeanette. It's been a hard decision not to get one to try out, unfortunately it's a bit of a way down the priority list.;)

[anthony.tony]

you can plug it into video in terminal of a TV and watch live .I Have recorded onto VHS tape. Tony

[netwolf]

Jeanette
Better than your DVD recorder which would no doubt use MPEG2 compression is your miniDV camera. If it has the ability you can either record from an external source to the miniDV tape or pass through via firewire link to you PC.

Check this out. Its called Drift Integration or Time Delay Integration, no need for tracking. Also you can integrate video taken over many nights.
http://www.cometdust.demon.co.uk/QCUIAG/DriftIntegration/index.htm

Drift Scan links.
http://www.driftscan.com/links.htm

Regards

[ballaratdragons]

Pics Jeanette, we want pics :lol:

and not of the G-star Ex, we want sky pics :thumbsup:

[jjjnettie]

Ken, it should be here tomorrow, I hope. I'll post piccies ASAP, once I work out how to use it.
Fahim, I'll have to look into that. My camera has a DV Input/Output terminal, so if the Gstar has this special i.Link terminal it would be ideal. It would make it a very portable unit. Better than lunking around the DVD recorder.

[netwolf]

jjjnettie,

miniDV camera's come with a Firewire port as standard, its also referred to as an I-link. Recording to the miniDV or via the miniDV (if yours has pass through) will provide much better quality video with little compression loss. This pass through method is also used my many people to convert old VHS tapes to digital format by passing it through the dv camera to a computer.

Better yet you maybe able to use the LCD view screen of the dv camera to view the output of the GSTAR.

Regards.
Fahim

[jjjnettie]

:love: It's arrived! :love:

[ving]

how is it?

a boy or girl? :P

when do you get first light? :)

[jjjnettie]

LOL
It must be a girl. We are having communication problems already. But we'll sit down tonight and work it through.
I'll be happy to just get images coming through on the telly at the moment.

[Dennis]

Hmm, now that is really puzzling…I though that girls were good at communicating and it was us boys who were poor communicators…so the camera must be a boy?

Maybe the new age overtook me?

Cheers

Dennis

[jjjnettie]

Dennis, you forget I'm a tomboy. I've never really gotten on with girls, we don't talk the same language. ie. shoes, makeup, dresses.

But, this post is about my new camera. It worked a treat. I started off using it with a 2x barlow, but put that aside, so I could have a larger fov. I can see that my next purchase will be a field reducer so I can catch some wide field pics.
Omega Centauri was huge! It wouldn't fit on the screen. The Jewel Box, Jupiter, M1 and Eta carina were just a few of the things I looked at.
I didn't play around with many of the functions, I just programed in the settings recipe for deep sky, that I got from Steve Quirks site, and stuck with that.
Tomorrow I'll get an s-video cable so I can start imaging. Whoo Hoo.

[ballaratdragons]

Woo-hoooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

[jjjnettie]

The DVD recorder and I are having issues so I have no "proper" images to share.
The best I can show you are screen shots of the Swan and Lagoon Nebulas that I took with the little Canon camera.

[nightsky]

G'Day,
:(
I know it's a early days yet,but would you recommend the "Gstar"
Cheers
Arthur

[jjjnettie]

Hi Arthur,
I most definately would recomend the Gstar-Ex.
It's an extremely sensitive camera. For example, the photo of the screen shot of the Swan neb I posted, (of which a lot of detail was lost in translation), the original detail you could see in one frame is incredible, imagine stacking 50 of them!
It will take time and practice to make using the controls second nature, as with any new camera/gadget. I can't wait to use it to it's full potential.

[Karls48]

Hi jjjnettie
I’m glad that you are happy with your camera. I have been using Mintron cameras (GStar is a Mintron) for number of years. You should be able to see with this camera object about 3 magnitudes fainter then what can you see in the eyepiece. At maximum integration 128X cameras electronics shutter stays open for 2.56 second, then the output is updated. That’s why you see the stars to jump every couple seconds if you are using telescope without the drive. This camera (when using longer integration) is not suitable for taking images of fast moving objects or AVI’s . With your DOB you can use program like AstroVideo that will automatically stack number of image on fly. With your 10” DOB you will be probably limited to about 10 exposures before the star moves to far. But that’s 25 seconds exposure without need to stack 10 imaged manually.
Hope this will help little to get more out of your new camera

[ving]

het karl, steve masey uses it to take pics of jupiter so it must be good for avis?

[Karls48]

Yes, but you switch frame integration off or to 2x. The sensitivity fall down to 0.02 LUX. But then you don't need high sensitivity as planets are brigth objects. What I mean is there is no point taking 25fps AVI because screen refresh only every 2.56 second at 128x frame integration.

[nightsky]

G'Day JJJnettie,
Thanks for that info,I look forward to seeing some your pic's and maybe even AVI's :P
Cheers
Arthur

[Tamtarn]

Wow Jeanette - Looks like you're going to have a great time with the GStar.

Look forward to the DSO images when you get up and running :thumbsup:

Barb

[Dennis]

Hey Jeanette

Wow - talk about getting your sleeves rolled up and stuck in! Great results and well deserved for such early days with all that technology!

If you can make use of a Windows 98 2nd Edition Dell Notebook computer, with a 4Gig HDD, Pentium II 266Mhz CPU, with 64Meg RAM I have one that you can have on an indefinite loan - it's a bit old (like me) and the battery is dead, but it works off the mains. Let me know if the Dell specs are sufficient to drive the Gstar.

Cheers

Dennis

[jjjnettie]

I went to DickSmiths today and bought myself a CCTV. It has all the bells and whistles to hook up to the Gstar and DVD recorder. It must be going to work out well because the clouds have come over and the forecast is for rain.
It also came with a mono security camera, hmmm, I wonder what sort of pics I could take with that?

Dennis, thank you for your generous offer. If I had checked this thread earlier, I would have taken you up on it, but I think everything will work out fine now. Thanks.

[Dennis]

Hello, Jeanette

No worries. It was a bit of a long shot as the PC belongs to the era just before multi-media and video kicked in, so it may not have the necessary connections, hardware interfaces and sheer grunt to be of much use, let alone running the old Win 98 SE OS.

However, if you ever want to try it, the offer remains open as it is currently grossly under utilised and I figured that with your commitment and determination, it could be put to good use.

Good luck with the latest acquisitions – it sure is a hobby of never ending purchases eh!

Cheers

Dennis

[jjjnettie]

Here are some practice pictures I took.
It's going to take a while to get this down pat.

[nightsky]

G'Day Jjjnettie,
Looking good,seems your getting the hang of it :) keep up the good work looking forward to seeeing some more great pic's
Cheers
Arthur

[csb]

I'm considering the Gstar.

I see that the refresh is upto approx 2.5 sec, but does that mean that the camera takes images (upto 25fps it seems?) and it is just what you see live that is updated every 2.5 sec?

If so, then are all the frames available for editing?

I'd like it for imaging the sun with a PST.

In a review in Sky&Telescope magazine, the reviewer pointed out this camera can suffer from visible hot pixels - does anyone think this will be a problem for solar imaging.

Glad you're enjoying the new camera.

[mick pinner]

hi Jjjnettie, l have the Mintron version of the G-Star with the inline control paddle, l have only had a very quick play with mine and l am certainly no planetary imager but these are some initial results from a while back.
l do have some DSO shots that l will try and find and post later.
Once you get the hang of it you will love it.

[jjjnettie]

Craig,
I don't have tracking, so I don't use maximum intergration of senseup 128x otherwise I get star trails.
Craig , if you like I can email you a small .avi (about 2mb) taken at 48x senseup so you can see what it looks like.
I haven't noticed any hot pixels.

[jjjnettie]

Mick,
I'm jealous that you can capture planets. There's no hope for me. I'll stick to the camcorder for those.
Please post your DSO shots though. I'd love to see them.

[Karls48]

Hi Craig
In any integration mode, that is 0.08 up to 2.56 sec, camera shutter will remain open for that period of time and you will get just one frame for that period. As integration time increases the sensitivity increases also. You can record AVI at 25 FPS with integration switched off.
All CCD sensors will have some hot pixels. Sony EX-View probably few more then others. It seems to be price you pay for increased sensitivity.

[csb]

That actually sounds like just doing a long exposure or am I misunderstanding you.

Jeanette explained it differently (in a pm) and has sent me a short imaging session of Tarantula Nebula.

When played in VirtualDub, video jumps (the camera refreshes) every 1/2 sec and shows next image - camera did not track object so you see it "move" in steps through view. But there are about 12 frames in between the image refreshes. (sorry if my wording is not clear)

So it appears that the camera internally "stacks" the images into to a summed total image that it then displays on the monitor at every refresh.

It appears that individual frames (that make up a refreshed image) are available for stacking/processing by the user.

I have contacted MyAstroShop (via their eform) for clarification and awaiting reply.

[[1ponders]]

If Jeanette gets to astrofest with her Gstar we can put it together with my DMK, SAC 4.2 mono and have a shoot out with them.


That's if you can wait that long ;)

I reacon the DMK will be the winner though.

[netwolf]

Craig, Frame integration is what you have deduced it to be. The camera internally can be set to stack frames together and provide a combined output. You can also take get the video without integration and latter stack it yourself. But on of the objectives of this camera is for visual observers to see the faint and fuzzies live on screen, in almost real time. This is quiet usefull under ligh poluted skies, combined with a small hi-res CCTV display you can see faint and fuzzies that you would not make out in the EP.

Regards

[csb]

Thanks, MyAstro confirmed SenseUp is the name for Gstar's video integration mode.

However they said that the individual frames that make up each "refresh" image are not available for processing. You just stack the "refresh" images together.

Of course you can use the camera out of SenseUp and then have all frames available.

I'm understanding this a lot more now. The Senseup shows brighter images because it is a stack of all the shots taken in that cycle.

Jeanette, I wonder why the image you sent me seems to have the individual frames available (for viewing at least in VirtualDub). Was it taken in SenseUp mode.

I know from 1ponders & unipol imaging, that the DMK 21AF04 can take the quality I want. Gstar has a bigger chip. And then there is the SAC 4-2.

If you all meet at Astrofest then it would be great if you took some shots of the sun - I'll be glad to pay for any film you use

This camera seems to be suitable for what I want, imaging the sun in Ha. I'm just waiting for acceptance in the Gstar users group as it has some pics taken through a PST with the camera.

If you do meet at Astrofest, I sure would like some images of the sun, preferably with PST, to compare the 3 cameras (Thanks 1ponders). I'd be glad to pay for any film you use:lol:

[ballaratdragons]

I don't think that will be of any concern.

The real problem will be finding a 1 hour developing shop near any Astro event :lol:

[csb]

:lol: :lol:

[[1ponders]]

Filum????? What's that. Where does it go in a camera? You have battery, you have storage card....what does filum do????? :P

[netwolf]

Craig, under normal mode with integration turned off (senseup turned off) you would get 25fps from a PAL Camera. At max integration sensup setting you will only get 1 frame every 2.56s But if you capture this for 1 minute you would still see multiple frames but it would look like a slide show more than a video clip. This is what you saw in the clip you have from jjjnettie.

Essentially the 2.56s max mode is adding ~63frames(25+25+13) to give you 1 frame every 2.56s. You can capture this from the camera's video output via a capture card on your computer. Thats possibly what jjjnettie has sent you. Of course you can further add/stack these 2.56s (integrated exposures) together to get even more detail.

I hope i got that right.

Regards
Fahim

[csb]

Thanks, Fahim.

Explained clear and simple. That is all good for what I want to do.

With this camera I don't need to get a laptop. Gstar was becoming my preference...until I looked at pixel size.

The pixels in Gstar - 8.5 x 8.3 micron
compared to DMK - 5.6 x 5.6 micron

Then I found this at Finger Lakes Instrumentation www.fli-cam.com (http://www.fli-cam.com) :

A primary factor in achieving high resolution images is to match your telescope's focal length to your CCD's pixels size. All things being equal, a long focal length telescope will give better results with large pixels and a short focal length telescope will give better results with small pixels.

Under steady skies, the best combination of telescope focal length and pixel size will result in 2 arc-seconds of sky per pixel. For example, an ideal match for a 9 micron pixel is a telescope of 36" focal length (such as a 8" f4.5, 6" f6). An 8 inch Schmidt-Cassegrin telescope (80" focal length), even with a focal reducer, is oversampled (too many pixels per star).

I verified this info on other sites and all agreed - also found a simple table that showed about 6micron is good size for the 400mm focal length of the PST.

So it is probably the DMK or SAC4 II for my solar imaging - darn, I really liked the features on the Gstar, but I'm after detail and resolution.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread nor end it - but I thought this info may be useful for others.

So, Jeanette, has your thread helped your understanding of SenseUp, it sure helped mine:)

[ballaratdragons]

Thank You Craig, that is very useful information :thumbsup:

[[1ponders]]

That is all true, Craig, but it is more relevant for DSO than planetary and solar imaging. For solar system stuff smaller pixel size is more important. You might find this thread interseting (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=19384). In particular check out the image that Dennis has posted. For planetary (and solar and luna) imaging, the longer your telescope the smalller the pixel size, within reason. With DSO you are looking for a resolution of around 2 arcsec/pixel as an average, planetary you go for 0.5 and smaller (assuming the seeing will allow it).

[csb]

Very helpful, thanks.

For imaging through the PST + 2x barlow:
DMK we get - 1.45 arc-sec per pixel
Gstar gives - 2.20 arc-sec per pixel

For me the DMK has been proven by the images posted at IIS and others. I saw some taken with the Gstar and a Mintron, but they were not so good (solar only).

It certainly seems reasonale and I can understand that solar system objects would have differing parameter optimums from deep space.

I have time to research and hopefully wait for Astrofest, still deciding on laptop.

[okiscopey]

It was some sort of primitive version of our CCD and CMOS systems.

Apparently the sensors 'wore out' or got 'used up' and a new lot had to be moved into place after every exposure. I vaguely recall they were on some sort of strip of fabric or plastic, probably the latter as all the sensor arrays had to be immersed in a series of liquids .. and all in the dark!

No wonder filum didn't survive, although it seems you didn't need a computer to look at the images, so it wasn't all bad.

:rofl:

[[1ponders]]

So you just took a photo with this "filum", dunked it up and down in some liquid and there you have it an image. Wow wonders never cease. Makes using a normal camera seem a lot of work to get an image. :lol:

Craig you certainly won't be doubting if you get the DMK. It is a proven performer in the monchrome arena, especially for solar. Planets are a much more of a challenge though :lol: Welcome to the world of RGB colour capture.

[astroron]

It didn't do to bad ,it lasted over a hundred years
:eyepop:

[[1ponders]]

Too true Ron. These days you are flat out getting a format to still be recognized after 10 years. It is a real concern for many, what is going to happen to the billions of Gigabytes of images around these days. How can we ensure they will still be able to be read in 20 years, let alone 100 years.

[astroron]

As Carl Sagen once said something like "you can read a Stone Tablet a couple of thousand years old but cannot read or watch something only twenty years old":screwy:

[ballaratdragons]

Print them out :P

[csb]

Put them in the Mormon's Geneology vault.

[that_guy]

sorry to bring up this ultimately oldie thread but ive been treading the idea that gstar ex clr camera can work as a guider as said on the website? using a lens and such, is it possible? when i looked at the initial diagram, i saw no ST4 Ports on the back :shrug: help?! :help:

cheers,
tony

[erick]

The only functioning output on the back of a GSTAR-EX Clr that I know of is a video out BNC.

[tonybarry]

With some software + hardware, the GStar could be used as a guider.

You would need a guiding application (e.g. PhD) from Stark Labs (free), and a laptop to run it on.

You would need a Belkin F5U228 or similar framegrabber, with drivers.

You would need a GPUSB box from Shoestring Astronomy ... which translates guiding info to guiding electrical signals.

And a scope with a guide port.

This will get you guiding.

Regards,
Tony Barry

[[1ponders]]

You could also use a Gstar with something similar to the TV Guider.

[that_guy]

this was the reply from the gstar users group in yahoo...



can this work with my heq5?

cheers
tony