Which 100 degree eyepiece do you like?

[gregbradley]

They all seem large and heavy and tend to be expensive.
Anyone care to share their experiences with these?
Also anyone used APM super wide eyepieces? They seem
somewhat in the middle pricewise.
Greg

[Startrek]

I use a 12” Goto dob for observing at my retirement holiday home on the South Coast ( Bortle 3 )
After purchasing my first Televue eye piece 4 years ago ( a Delos 10mm ) I was hooked on Televue ( fortunate to be able to afford them )
The Ethos 21mm 100deg is my favourite eye piece for observing most Nebula, especially M42 Orion in the summer months.I don’t use my UHC filter on this object and the views are absolutely incredible. On stable nights the trapezium core is easily resolved ( mostly 4 stars but I have seen the 5th on occasions ) and the wispy nebulosity extends way way out forever into deep space.
Yes the Ethos 21mm is a heavy beast at 1020gm coupled with my Paracorr type 2 Coma corrector which is another heavy beast but I have a big solid scope and the 2” focuser holds the huge arrangement nice and tight with no movement. Looking forward to observing Carina over the next few months during the dark with my Ethos 21mm.For Carina I use a UHC filter which provides good definition, contrast and colour to this huge Nebula
Probably the next favourite wide field eye piece would be my Ethos 4.7mm SX 110 deg eye piece for Lunar observing. Again on the right night with a waxing or waning 40% to 60% moon the views are incredible , a real “space walk feel” as Al Nagler of Televue has mentioned over the years. This eye pieces in my 12” provides stunning wide field super close views of the lunar terrain with excellent contrast and colour which improve towards the terminator due to the shadows of the craters, rills and mountains.

[gregbradley]

That's a great write up thanks Martin.

My wife and I were able to see quite clearly the 5th and 6th star in the Trapezium the other night with the AP130GT and a 9mm Morpheus eyepiece.

I'd never seen them all before.

Greg.

[FlashDrive]

5th and 6th ... lucky you Greg ...I've only see up to the 5th using averted vision and only seen it once .

[byronpaul]

Greg,

With my 18” SDM, my 13mm Ethos is my most used eyepiece on most targets at 185x mag, my 21mm Ethos would be 2nd at 115x mag and equal 3rd would be either my 8mm Ethos 300x mag or 31mm Nagler at 75x (I love this mammoth eyepiece). I would do 90% of my visual observing with the 13mm Ethos.

I’m sold on Televue and have most of the Type 4, Type 5 and Type 6 Naglers, but they don’t get much use since I’ve had the Ethos eyepieces.

The 100deg eyepieces are unbelievable, and up 1 or 2 steps on the ladder the spacewalk feeling does make you think you’re floating .... have to grip the step ladder :)

I do most of my viewing at a Bortle 2 site past Ballarat in Vic. Speaking of M42, i would say the 5th star is clearly visible 90% of the time, the sixth star about 50% and I’ve seen the 7th star on the odd occasion with averted vision and on night’s of really great seeing.

I’ve tried the Explore Scientific 100deg pieces, but I think the Ethos are much better .... for a much higher price, but I haven’t tried any other brands. Most of my visual buddies have Ethos so I that the limit of my 100deg brand exposure.

My visual process involves viewing with eyecup folded down and I’ve never really have any problems with kidney bean effect. I just go to a target, look though the eyepiece and literally fall into the eyepiece.

Hope this helps.

Paul

[gaseous]

It's funny you ask this question, as I sent an email to Don Pensack this arvo (he runs Eyepieces,Etc in the USA) regarding 100 degree eyepieces. I was asking for his opinion regarding the 21mm Ethos vs 20mm Stellarvue Optimus. He implied that the 21E is a better eyepiece, but couldn't say it was worth the 2x price tag. He also mentioned the 20mm APM XWA, which is apparently very similar internally to the Stellarvue and is also very good and only 1/3 the Ethos price. A few online comparisons suggest the APM is a very good eyepiece for the money. I use an ES 14mm 100 degree in my 20" dob and it's a very nice eyepiece. Thinking about a 20mm eyepiece in the future, maybe the APM.

[gregbradley]

Yes I know. I was amazed.

Greg.

[Don Pensack]

The APM XWAs come in 20mm, 13mm, 9mm, 7mm (soon), 4.77mm, 3.5mm
The Stellarvue Optimus is in 20, 13.5, 9, 4.7, and 3.6mm
The Explore Scientific is in 25mm, 20mm, 14mm, 9mm, 5.5mm
The TeleVue Ethos is in 21mm, 17mm, 13mm, 10mm, 8mm, 6mm, 4.7mm, 3.7mm

The APMs and Stellarvue are identical optically.
The TeleVues have the best edge of field correction and cost a lot more than the others. The APMs/Stellarvues are very close in correction to the TeleVues.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Don.

The APMs then represent the best value eh?

Greg.

[AG Hybrid]

I've been enjoying the ES 9,14 and 20mm 100 degrees for a few years now. If you love the 14 - you seriously would not be disappointed by the 20 mm. One caveat though is I use mine in my 12" F5, and even though I have the ES Coma corrector, I rarely use it these days. The field having some coma doesn't bother me in particular because my dob in not driven the object will always pass through the center of the field where correction is best.



Besides when its only at 75x mag with like 1.3 degrees field of view - objects aren't exactly flying through so a little nudge is easy to bring it back to center.

[GUS.K]

For those that still want as large a field but also need long eye relief, the Explore Scientific 92 degree series is another option. I picked up the 12mm version last week and have had a few good nights of viewing with it. I love the immersive views of the Baader Morpheus range, and this EP is the same, just a wider view. It weighs around 1080 grams, just slightly heavier than a 21mm Ethos, with 20mm of eye relief. The 92 degree feels just as wide as my Ethos 13, but with better eye relief. I use mine in 18 and 10 inch scopes.

[gregbradley]

Nice one. I have read time and again the 12 and 17 ES 92 degree eyepieces are two of the best eyepieces of all time.

Expensive though right?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on its performance.
What scope are you using it in?

Greg

[GUS.K]

Hi Greg, not sure about being the best, but they are nice eyepieces. The 12mm is about $170 cheaper than the 13 Ethos.
Using mainly with an 18 inch F4.5 and paracorr, views were similar through both, clean to the edge, and the sky background was slightly darker and detail in galaxies slightly better in the ES (the spiral of NGC 1566 and core detail in NGC 1365 were more pronounced). I'm favouring the ES as the immersive view is hard to beat.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Ivan.

I had a 13mm Ethos years ago and I remember it to be wonderful eyepiece just large and heavy and very expensive.

I ended up selling to help fund some astro gear acquisition.

The APM20XWA is stunning in the AP130GT. So much so I ordered the 9mm XWA which arrived today so it will be put through its paces next clear night.

Edge performance was better in the 13mm Ethos as I recall. Edge performance on the APM cleans up with the Tak 1.6X extender.

Greg.

[gaseous]

I've read mixed reports about the 20mm ES, although I'd assume a lot of people are a lot more particular/finicky than I am. I just pulled the trigger on an APM 20mm 100° (at a price much lower than the ES 20mm), so if Brisbane has a clear night without a full moon ever again, we'll see how it performs.

[Don Pensack]

I'll be interested in reading your comparison.

[gregbradley]

I got that one off this site recently. It totally wowed me. My wife also preferred it to any of the other high end eyepieces I have. So I got the 9mm also and about to use it tonight.

I found the Tak 1.6 Q extender made stars sharp to the edge but I preferred the native view.

Greg.

[gaseous]

I know Greg, you got in and snaffled it just before I could!

[gregbradley]

Hehe, you're just trying to make me feel good!

Greg.

[gregbradley]

Hey Don,

What's your view on native short focal length eyepieces versus barlowing a longer focal length with a good barlow/powermate?

Do the look the same or do they lose a bit? I mean in general as I am sure there are lots of possible scenarios and not all eyepeices would behave the same but in general what would you expect?

I am thinking most likely there would be a gain going native as there would be less glass but then some eyepieces gain better correction y using a barlow/powermate.

Greg.

[SkyWatch]

Hi all, I think it is important to try before you buy if you can with the 100° eyepieces: they are not for everyone!
I know this may be heresy to some, but personally I prefer a smaller apparent field; I am not that keen on having to turn my head to see the edge of the fov, which I find I have to do in most 100° eyepieces. In fact I once had a 13mm Ethos, which is a great eyepiece; but I sold it because I preferred my 13mmT6 Nagler, both in terms of the ease of the view and the size of the beast!
I have the ES 20mm, and again it is a great eyepiece, but I find that I rarely use it. It is massive, and I find I prefer the view through my 18mm Radian (which actually has an identical tfov to the 13mm Nagler!).
Others may disagree, but when I ran the 20mm ES against a 21mm Ethos in a variety of scopes (f5 dob, f4.5 dob with flattener, f8 and f6.3 refractor and f10 SCT) I could see very little difference. The Ethos was just a fraction sharper at the very edge of the field, but I couldn't see that without turning my head anyway... Both seemed equally bright and the contrast was similar.
I only paid 1/3 of the price of the Ethos for the ES (it was on a special some time back), so I see it as great value for money if you want to get into ultra wide-field viewing.

- Dean

[Don Pensack]

If it's a high-end Barlow, like a Baader VIP or TeleVue powerMate, there is no difference in performance between the higher power eyepiece and the Barlowed lower power eyepiece in general.
Except:
--the higher power eyepiece without a Barlow will be a lot lighter and put less stress on the focuser.
--the lower power eyepiece with a Barlow may, in some circumstances, show more light scatter or internal reflection. That depends a lot on the Barlow.
--the combination of Barlow and Eyepiece might be difficult for users of coma correctors. That stack can get very long and heavy.
--a lower power eyepiece that has induced astigmatism from fielding a short fat light cone might have less astigmatism when used in a Barlow.

I would also comment that my lifetime-best view of Jupiter was with a PowerMate (4 elements) + Paracorr (5 elements) + 8mm Ethos (9 elements). It looked like a Christopher Go or Damian Peach image, only sharper. Full technicolor, too. No more light scatter than I saw in the eyepiece by itself. Different colors on each moon, and albedo features on Ganymede. The keys: great optics and stunningly perfect seeing. Lens count? Not very important, it seems, at least with optics of that quality.

[astro744]

I had a similar experience with a Tele Vue 35mm Panoptic with 4x Powermate giving me one of the finest views of Jupiter and Saturn I had ever seen. Telescope was 10.1" f6.4 Newtonian with (Suchting) refigured primary. What I liked about the view was the huge eye lens the Panoptic provides and at the higher power the Powermate offers.

What was the telescope you used your combination on, Don? I'm curious what magnification you had.

Note the Powermates are essentially invisible unless you're chasing 15th magnitude Quasars in which case a design with less but highly polished lens elements would be advantageous, (contrast is the key). I like the way the Powermates retain eye relief exactly as the original eyepiece design was intended to have.

[Don Pensack]

456x in a 12.5" newtonian with Zambuto primary mirror and Antares Optics 1/30 lambda secondary in a contrast-optimized structure. Cooled with 2 large boundary layer fans and one rear fan, collimated with Glatter laser,
Farpoint Cheshire, Catseye autocollimator. PowerMate was 2X 2".
Since then, I've obtained 6mm, 4.7mm, and 3.7mm Ethos eyepieces, so I sold the PowerMate because I no longer needed it to get close to 500x.

Your experience with the 4X PowerMate doesn't surprise me.

[astro744]

Nice! I too have shorter Tele Vue f.l. eyepieces to choose from now. The 4x Powermate/35 Pan combination was heavy and is OK for high altitude viewing but anything low and I need to counterbalance. Still got the PM in case I need for photo or want to recreate the visual experience.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Don.

I did some dark site viewing a few nights ago and tried the barlow out and I came to the same conclusion.

A decent barlow is a good accessory.

Greg.

[OneCosmos]

I have the Ethos 21mm and 13mm. In the 16” SDM THE 13mm was my go-to EP for nebulae and I suspect in the 28” (TechnoFusion mirror from Normand Fullum & 1/30 lambda secondary), it may be the 21mm but as I have so far only had one hour or so at the eyepiece I don’t know yet.

I did briefly use my Nikon 17mm Nav HW 102 degree EP and thought it slightly sharper and more contrasty than the Ethos.

I need to consider my higher power tools for planetary and lunar. I do have a Vixen LVW 8mm and I do have the 2x powermate.

So here’s a question I’ve been wondering about for higher powers to view small objects like planets do you really need 100 degree views? Wouldn’t the Delos prove better?

[Don Pensack]

You don't NEED 100°, but it does give you a lot more time viewing before needing to push the scope.
Now, if your scope tracks, you are freer to use much narrower eyepieces, like TeleVue Delites (one of my favorites), or.........
But narrower won't give you a better image necessarily. That will depend a lot on the eyepiece.

[Herbs]

Just check the price of 12mm ES 92, it's now jumped 50% about $200 more than 13 Ethos:eyepop:, is it actually worth the extra $$ above Ethos?

[gaseous]

Don mentioned recently that ES have been experiencing price hikes across the board due to various factors, pushing up prices considerably.

[GUS.K]

They are good eyepieces, but very overpriced, there are cheaper options.

[yoda776]

I still like and prefer my views in the Nikon NAV HW 17.5 eyepiece over my ethos. Just that bit sharper.

Its all relative to preferende, experiences you've had and among other things how good your eyesight is.

I have qatched ES eyepieces become more expensive over time and they have either gotten better over time or just plain more expensive! I always thought they were over similar calibre to Meade UWAs, although nit really worked with them much admittedly.

[Don Pensack]

A good catch. Now to see the G, H1, H2, I, J, K, and L stars.
[there are many more than just the 6 stars there.
At least 16 of them can be seen in this image:
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap180805.html ]

[gregbradley]

Thanks Don.

That would seem to need a very large dob to see those faint stars.

Greg.

[Don Pensack]

I've seen the G, H, and I stars with the 12.5", but haven't gone any deeper.

[astro744]

I’ve seen two well away from the long axis of the Trapezium using a 10.1” f6.4 Newtonian (with mirror I had professionally refigured by Suchting). One was obvious, the other on the threshold as I recall. I thought I was seeing things and then realised I was; more stars!

I cannot remember what magnification I was using although I did use my 12mm T4 Nagler a lot back then but it could have been another eyepiece. Contrast is amazing with this mirror and stars are so tight (exceptional seeing required).

[ausastronomer]

Hi Greg,

You need reasonable aperture over 10" and obviously the bigger the better, but at least as important is good seeing and a well cooled and collimated telescope.

I've done down to I in my 14" and 18" scopes several times, and reasonably common in the 25" Obsession. One night at Coona under superb conditions with the 25" and a 12mm Nagler, I had "stars everywhere". I am only familiar with them down to "I" and had no finder chart, so not sure what was what, but easily the best view I have ever had of the trap.

Cheers
John B

[gregbradley]

Wow, sounds like a very memorable experience. I've never owned a Dob and I am interested in getting one. What would you recommend? I am thinking around the 12 inch size and not too heavy.

Greg.

[ausastronomer]

Hi Greg,

I know you've always bought hi quality refractors and are well aware that you "get what you pay for" with optical equipment.

What's your rough budget and timeframe? Do you just want to get something "reasonable" so you can use a dob and see if it's something you want to put more money into to get a good one down the track for visual use, or do you want to dive in at the deep end and get a high quality one straight off. Obviously a $2,000 12" Skywatcher or GSO isn't the equal of a 12" Zambuto mirrored SDM with Servocat. A $10k plus SDM isn't 5 times better than a $2k Skywatcher, or GSO, but it is certainly better in every respect, including optics, smoothness of motion, tracking and longevity. You can also get a mass produced Asian built scope pretty quickly. You will wait a couple of years for an SDM with a Zambuto mirror. SDM's do come up 2nd hand on Icetrades "occasionally" at bargain prices.

Cheers
John B

[m11]

I would highly recommend if you can to see one in the flesh and if possible get involved in the setting up of the dob. This will give you a feel of how it is to live with one and if the bulk or weight is an issue at all for you.

You can also try your eyepieces to see how you like the view as well before spending.

[Culford]

Personally I am not that big on 100 degree plus eyepieces. My Nagler's provide more than enough FOV and provide ample " space walk experience."

But I do understand everyone is different and people different to me have different needs and wants. these megawide eyepieces are definitely an engineering marvel.

[Don Pensack]

For glasses wearers, there are no 100° eyepieces, and only 2 in 92°, one 84° and 5 80° (if the eyecup is removed).
I keep waiting for a series of 82+° field long eye relief eyepieces, but they aren't here yet. Looking for 30mm, 21mm, 15mm, 11mm, 8mm, 6mm, 4mm. I already have the 11mm (Apollo), but would love to see the others.
In the meantime, the Baader Morpheus series is close enough.