new observatory build

[Joshua Bunn]

Hi everyone.


Its been about a year in the planning and testing to make sure all the software and communications are working for my new remote observatory, which is situated in the dark skies of the WA wheatbelt some 200km inland from the south coast. I will operate it from my home in Albany.


Now I have started the structure build. I had read evidence that a portion of the seeing effects in our images come from within 10 or so meters above the ground. I had also seen another observatory that was elevated and spoke with the gentleman who operates it and he confirmed the extra height improved his seeing conditions.



So I have decided to try it out, the telescope will observe from about 8 - 8.5m above the ground in an elevated 3.6 x 3.6m observatory. The surrounding Roll off roof observatory is built on a structure with 8 concrete piles going into the ground, while the telescope sits atop a "quadpod" pier that goes through the observatory floor and is also held down with 5 similar concrete piles that go into the ground, yet to be built.



I may get some comments saying it wont make a difference, and it may not to be honest, but I'm interested to find out :)


from the initial photos, the frame is 6m high, and the observatory platform sits on top of that and extends the floor to 7m high. The frame will have a ladder to climb up on, which then goes into the cage that can be seen welded to the side of the platform. This also serves as a walkway to the observatory door, and on the way, access to things like Cell reception aerials and allsky cameras and security cameras. the walls of the observatory will be made from 100mm sandwich panel.

I hope you enjoy the progress.


To power the observatory i will use a bank of solar panels and either lead carbon or Lithium batteries in a 48Volt bank.


Thankyou to Troypiggo, Steven Mohr and Terry Robison who have all helped me out along the way. Thanks Guys :thumbsup:


Josh

[Joshua Bunn]

some pictures

[Joshua Bunn]

3 more

[AstroApprentice]

Wow!:eyepop:
Looks like it will be amazing...put in a runway and it could double as a control tower!
I’m curious to read more about your quad pier design...
Also, perhaps think some more about staircase v ladder - Lugging expensive/heavy equipment up a ladder sounds challenging. I guess you won’t have to do it very often, but there’s always a bit of changing, trouble-shooting and upgrading that goes on, particularly during establishment.
Given the skill you put into your adapters, I’m sure I’ll enjoy watching your obs build.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Jason.
My original plan was to use a staircase, but that was more work than I wanted. So instead I went for the ladder, and I will use a winch mounted on the structure to get my mount and scope up there. I'm not hauling them up there on my back :)
The gear I have now will last me for some time, but I have built this to house a 24 inch scope if I ever have one in my future.

[strongmanmike]

wow...looks and sounds awesome Josh :thumbsup:

Any drawings/plans you could show? I am thinking it will be something like at Farm Tivoli in Namibia..?

Mike

[Paul Haese]

8 meters in the air? Have you got structural engineering approval for that nearly three story structure Josh? Holy crap, that is a massive project. I'll be very interested to see how you go with it. What are you doing regarding wind loads? The wind in your area can be pretty high at times and 8 meters up is going to be a nice sail. It will be an interesting experiment. :thumbsup:

[marc4darkskies]

Very cool and interesting! Hats off to you Joshua for taking on such a project! It'll need some pretty serious engineering to keep the structure and pier stable though! I'd be interested to see some drawings/plans too.

I'm looking forward to following your journey!

[The_bluester]

Stairs versus ladder, I reckon you are on the right idea Josh, I have worked in air traffic control towers and on RADAR systems, both involving equipment at height. The best way to get it up and down is a winch on a rail with a half door (Top half) that the rail protrudes through. To get gear in you open up the top door, push the winch out and drop a basket down, then winch the basket back up over the fixed bottom of the door and pull it back inside.

Any other way the temptation is going to be there to carry something heavy or awkward up the stairs or ladder.

[Joshua Bunn]

Hi Mike.
Yeah, similar to the Trivoli farm, that was one place where I got inspiration from. No plans to share, sorry, the real thing won't be far away :D. Most of it is on my head except for some small detail drawings.

Hi Paul,
8 meters in the air...
Yes, I did seek the advice of a structural engineer. The wind can be pretty constant where I'm putting it, but usually by night, it's calm. At it's highest point, the telescope will be a good distance below the top of the wall height as well.

Thanks Marc.
I do like the challenge, and working in a workshop as my day job, I've built a few big projects in recent times. Again, no drawings to share of any significance, but I did draw some for the engineer, which now have other scribbled plans on them :P


Hi Paul,
Yeah, a winch with a ladder is the way to go I reckon.:thumbsup:

[Joshua Bunn]

I have the pier done, except for welding on the top base plates for the mount. welded on 4 base-plates for the endless thread at the bottom. also made 4 reo bar cages to sink into the concrete footings for the pier, now to make 8 more for the observatory structure.

[FireCat]

Awesome , very interesting build project

[strongmanmike]

The Eiffel Telescope :D

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks FireCat.


Quite fitting Mike :)

[strongmanmike]

The most impressive looking amateur telescope pier I have seen. Pretty sure I'm not alone in saying, I can't wait to see the finished obsevatory :thumbsup:

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks for following Mike, not to long now till I try it out and test it. I have a few Arduino sensors that I will be using in the observatory. One of which is a vibration sensor. I will mount it on the top of the pier to see if it can detect any vibration. I don't know how sensitive the sensors are...

[Joshua Bunn]

I made up the pier that the mount sits on and that which goes through the observatory floor. Overkill, yes, but if i have a 24" one day on a equatorial fork, this will handle it.
Also made up some frames for my bolt hole pattern so that the reo bar cages will line up with the baseplates after concreting in the ground.

[Pepper]

this thing is gonna be insane when your done. im looking forward to seeing the pics of it standing in a paddock.

[strongmanmike]

:scared: :scared2:.....:lol:

I'm no expert but when I compare the overall height and expected top mass of the overall pier, with the surface mounting flanges and bolt patterns at the bottom of each leg, they just seem a little under engineered to me..? Also what metal type is the pier made of?

Looking bloody amazing, t'is sure to become one of those amateur facilities I'd love to visit one day :)

Mike

[Pepper]

ive climbed many towers 3 or 4 times the height that look a lot less engineered than this.

[Joshua Bunn]

Hey Mike.


You and Steve could make a trip over one day :D
Do you mean the base plates seam under engineered compared to the pier at the top?
It's made out of mild steel, nothing special.

[strongmanmike]

Love to! :D :thumbsup:

Yeah, just looked like the plates and bolt thread used to connect direct to the footings appeared a little under sized/strong..? As I said, I am not an expert but looking at the mass of the top of the tower + the massive pier interface and then the mount and telescope on top, I was thinking perhaps the interface between the RHS and each footing might benefit from an upgrade..? Just musings, you are clearly a master metal fabricator...and I probably just have that 16" Astrograph in Nambia on my mind :question: :thumbsup:

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

I do admit, the top is quite large, but I'm not sure how big a foot print an equatorial fork mount capable of carying a 24" scope is, so I think this should cover it.
Those bolts for the baseplate (being high tensile) will have a breaking strain of many tonnes for each bolt. And the interface between the baseplate and 100 x 100 x 3mm RHS is not going to tear. 400mm of strong weld on each leg, it's all good :D
It's not like there is much force on it.

I had it up, as you can see in the pictures, I climbed to the top (it was only on 3 legs cause of the uneven ground) and with a stiff wind, it didn't move a bit, just under it's own weight.
But I fully understand where you're coming from Mike :thumbsup: Thanks for following!

[strongmanmike]

Ok well, come'on then, get on with it.... this is like watching an excellent mini series on Netflix or Stan, can't wait to watch each new episode and you just want to binge watch! :lol: :party:

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

Ohh the teasing... :lol: But seriously though, I want it done aswell.:camera:

[Joshua Bunn]

Thankyou Steve, looking forward to seeing it up and going as well.

[Joshua Bunn]

Some progress pictures...
Pretty much just the sandwich panel structure, and the roof that will roll off.
Some 100 x 100 SHS which I cut lengthways to form a channel, sits at the top, for the wheels to roll in, with some inverted angle iron in there for the "V" of the wheels to set on.
Sandwich panel glued and tech screwed on the inside and outside corners with angle.



Thanks for looking.

[strongmanmike]

Coming along, nicely insulated...few screws there :)

The walls look pretty high..?

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

Cheers Mike.
Yeah the walls are 2.3m so that the scope can be in any position when the roof has to close. Also to future proof for future setups.


Some more progress pictures. Got the roof on and it rolls freely. Next is flashing, weather/air sealing, install roof motor then the inside.

[Joshua Bunn]

I sandblasted and painted all the frames over the past week, between other jobs, that was a big job. Time to get on with the finer detail of the observatory.

[strongmanmike]

That's so funny Josh, I was coming on here to give you a rev up, as I needed my Bunn Observatory progress photos fix :shrug:....aaaand voila! there they were! You must be telepathic :P

Looking good :thumbsup:

Mike
(over excited)

[troypiggo]

Needs more steel :nerd:

[Joshua Bunn]

Cheers Mike, thought you might have been wondering when the next photos are coming, the next lot wind be so far away :rofl:





Now you tell me :lol: Thanks Troy!

[marc4darkskies]

Coming along nicely! Awesome work Josh! When are you going to erect it?

[Joshua Bunn]

Thankyou Marcus.
In 2 to 3 weeks I'm thinking, taking into account giving the concrete footings time to harden.

[strongmanmike]

I dunno?...I can't help but suspect you will end up building stairs... ;)

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

Never gonna happen Mike, it's a compromise between the work involved and, well, getting up there :D

[strongmanmike]

Yeah and when I come to visit, you can just winch me up with the crane there :P...it'll handle 140kg?..won't it? :question: :lol:

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

The crane is good for 200kg, so you're safe there :lol:

[Mckechg]

Now, that's a mini-series I would watch - Grand Designs - Astro edition.

[Kirthgersen]

This I'd also pay a subscription to watch...

[Joshua Bunn]

Well it's been a while between posts, but I've been at it every day. Sometimes it doesn't seem like I get much done, but these things just take time.
Anyway...
A few photos for you all. I'm about at the stage where the observatory building is completed and now it's time to start filling it with scope and electronics etc.


I spent a great deal of time on dust and water proving the room as much as possible, as you'll see in the photos. I have a 180W exhaust fan that will be installed to provide air circulation for cooling electronic gear, aswell as providing a positive pressure to the room to keep dust out.


The photos show, in no particular order:
3 homemade bolt locks.
Tracks with upside down angle where the wheels run.
Keepers that have 2 bearings on each to keep the roof running where it should incase anything want to move or if the roof wants to lift.
Double seals on every wall to roof contacting point.
The roof motor and racks.



It's a little dirty, but it's all getting a paint at the end.
Next steps are mounting of weather sensor and sky monitoring gear, all sky camera aerials, the fan and filter, then the electronics inside.
Not to far away now :question::question:


Thanks for looking

[Joshua Bunn]

Some more.

[Joshua Bunn]

And more..

[marc4darkskies]

Looking good Josh! :thumbsup: Looks very sturdy too although I don't think those three bolts are quite big enough! :eyepop: :lol:

[gregbradley]

Man that is one strong looking bolt door lock! Wow.

I need to renovate my observatory at some point. The rolls off roof mechanism isn't that great being just some 90 x 45 pine timber rails.

I did use upside down C purlin at one stage so may go back to something like that. Also better wheels which don't have an axle stick out the side but rather attach underneath.

Greg.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Lads, Yeah observatory security is kinda important for me :help::lol:
I think wheels directly underneath would be much better than out the side Greg.


Josh

[gregbradley]

Yeah definitely as the axles (12mm bolts) bend quite easily as these roofs are a little on the heavy side.

Greg.

[Paul Haese]

Nice Joshua.


A question or two for you.


Where did you get the brushes from and what is the stock number? We have had trouble with birds at out Society's observatory and I think those brushes look very sturdy.
The rubber seals - which manufacturer and website? Similar to the bird stuff. We have prevented water getting in but some places the birds still could have access and those rubber seals look the ticket to me.

It's going to be robust overall but I wonder about the gate opener. A metal rack and pinion will suit that purpose overall. Is that metal or plastic?


I am enjoying watching the build progress. How many coils of Mig wire or rods have you gone through? Heaps of welding. No getting through that door though. :thumbsup:

[Joshua Bunn]

Hi Paul, Thanks!



I got the brushes from Woolworths, it was a broom brush cut in half.


I got the rubber seals from a local V belt and rubber shop.


I have no idea of the stock numbers, but I can inquire.


The gate opener is operating at 30% of Max torque to open and close the roof, I spent some time on this getting it right. The pinion is steel, and the rack has a 10, maybe 12mm square steel bar running inside it for its full length. I'll post a picture. Then plastic around it. I had the motor running at 100% torque, and making it stall, there was no issue with the rack failing.


I few rods, yes, and about one and a half coils of wire at 15kg each.



Regards Joshua

[Joshua Bunn]

Here's a cross section of the rack, Paul.

[Joshua Bunn]

Hello All,


I'm nearing completion of the outside work on the observatory, which means I'll start to put the electronics inside shortly.
These photos show the weather sensors to open and close the roof as needed.

I made an automated cover with a windscreen wiper motor to shade the all sky camera in the daytime as the camera sensor gets very hot in full sun. It's tinted acrylic, and I may put some window tint on it if necessary. The cover is on a schedule in time with the sun up and down. It's switched by a single pole double throw relay with power going to the motor all the time depending on which way the switch is thrown. At the motor, there is a single pole double throw toggle switch which is turned on and off with the cam on the motor shaft. This means it can always start it self.

Also up there is a Hydreon rain sensor that is a backup to the AAG cloud watcher if it fails to close the roof in a rain event. I have run water tubing to wash the sensors and all sky dome periodically of dust etc. The washer motor is bellow the tank so its alwsys primed. All electronic cables are covered in flex conduit and heatshrunk together for water tightness and bird proofness😂 Cables from the sensors are ducted through the frame and into the observatory that way.

Other things include an air cleaner to clean the air before it's pulled into the observatory by the fan, the Yagi directional antenna for cell signal and a couple of security cameras inside and out. The inside one has a microphone so I can hear what's going on if necessary.


I have some numbers and photos for you Paul in regards to the seels and brush.


Thanks for looking!

[Joshua Bunn]

Some more...

[Joshua Bunn]

And more :screwy:

[Pepper]

I’d think twice about using cable ties. In a year they will be brittle and be crack ing off. Just a couple of laps of electrical tape will be thre a long time. Or stainless cable ties.

[Joshua Bunn]

These cable ties seem to be okay, I've been using the thick ones at work and had them in direct sunlight, they've been in place for 8 years so far. Still holding on 🙂

[marc4darkskies]

Amazing Josh - I'm in awe!

Questions: Will all the add-ons withstand 120+kph wind gusts? Are you going to add a kitchen sink?

Oh, and one word of advice .... don't drop it during the lift!!! :D

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Marcus.... arghhh thats what I forgot, the sink!!!



The AAG should be able to handle the winds, thousands are in use worldwide.

The aerials are good for 40m/s so that's okay. The acrylic cover, well we shall see... I tried to make it as horizontal as I could to help with that, while still slowing water to shed. The Max wind at the site over the past 8 years has been 104km/h, but usually no more than 80. :)


Could you imagine dropping it from 10m ... :eyepop::help::mad2: 😂

[marc4darkskies]

Unfortunately yes! Just make sure you video the lift :lol:

Anyway, I'm sure it will go swimmingly. But I'll bet it'll be a sphincter clenching moment for you regardless!

[Joshua Bunn]

Well I guess if it goes belly up, we gotta get some value from it :rofl:

[Joshua Bunn]

So a question, I'd be interested to hear the opinions of you ladies and gents on whether or not you think putting the scope at 8-9m above ground is a waste of effort in terms of getting better resolution images. I've read and heard that getting above the ground based level seeing conditions has a positive effect on the FWHM of your images.
Who thinks it's possible compared to having the scope at ground level?


Josh

[Paul Haese]

Incredible attention to detail Joshua. Love the weather system, cabling and dust extractor. It is almost a military installation. Nice work and I am sure once you have it airborne it will produce years of service. Just one thing. Make sure you can reach the AAG cloud sensor. I am on my third one in 12 years. I run my continuously which is recommended but wonder if that lessens the life of the units.

As to the seeing effects at ground as opposed to 8 meters up; whilst I have read there can be significant gains made it would depend on the size of the scope installed, what the focal length/image scale will be and the local seeing conditions. I suppose it also really depends on what you intend to do with the system in the long run. Is this going to be a research grade system, will you be trying to attract scientists to use the equipment at hire? If not I guess you have to ask yourself if it is worth the effort to elevate the rig. Can't answer that for you.

[noswonky]

No personal experience with this, but a couple of years ago we had a professional astronomer speak at our club and he was talking about this issue. His team was operating a small observatory in Antarctica and they had done testing which confirmed that most of the air causing seeing issues was just a few meters off the ground. So they elevated the equipment to get above it.

Of course Antarctica is a very different environment so I don’t know if this would apply at other sites.

[marc4darkskies]

What Paul said!

My approach to building an obs has always been entirely empirical and based on half a dozen or so basic dos and don'ts and the number of dollars I have AND the fact that I'm an engineering ignoramus.

Dos & don'ts:

thermal mass is bad, mmm-kay! So no concrete pad for me .... and don't put your obs next to a house (ooops! ... but my excuse #4 below))
a pier footing should be substantial and isolated from the observatory structure
the telescope pier should be >=5mm thick buttressed aluminium or steel tubing anchored to the footing and be about 250mm in diam to minimise deflection and resonance .... and it should NOT have a bird cage on top!!!
should have convenient access (the older you are the more important this becomes!)
should allow adequate ventilation

If I was an engineering genius, like you ;), would I build a tower obs? Probably not, because I've never seen anything definitive to say that seeing is noticably better at greater than 3m above ground level (the aperture of my scope is about that). I can imagine it may be better, but I'd be guessing that it would be marginal at best compared to normal seeing conditions.

Having said that, unless No. 4 in my list above rings true for you, I'd press on.

[ericwbenson]

Hi Joshua,

You mention you have read about ground level seeing, have you seen this article:

Altitude, Elevation and Seeing by Rene Racine
https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005PASP..117..401R/abstract

In it the author develops a model to account for altitude of the site, and the elevation of the telescope to predict the seeing using data from 23 professional sites (including Siding Springs). His model agrees quite well with the data (~0.1" residuals)

A few years ago I entered the model into a spreadsheet with his best fit parameters, attached is the chart I made.

Notice most of the gain is the first 3 meters.The front of my telescope aperture is about 3m above the ground (in a dome) at 425m above sea-level near Arakaroola, and the best seeing I get is about what the chart says: ~1.1"

So according to model the 425m ASL doesn't do much, but the 3m does, I find this is not exactly what my experience tells me. My C11 or C14 at 2 meters elevation with the dew shield on in my backyard in Adelaide gets way worse seeing on average, although it can be very good (<1.5"), sometimes.

Note his model is possibly optimistic since he used only very good sites to fit the parameters. Sites in compromised areas (cities, rough topography, bad jetstream, etc) may not perform as well.

I think in my case being on a very steep ridge/hill, ~75m above the surrounding area (it's like a 75m tall pier?!?), does have a big impact as it gets the dome above the inversion layer that can form in the area. Compared to observing from the village itself, we know this can make a huge difference which I don't believe is captured in the model.

The problem I would see with higher elevation (very tall exposed pier) is wind shake. Even though you have a small sail area for your tower/pier, the vibrations induced by wind on a long thin member can be difficult, if not impossible to predict. So unfortunately you are entering uncharted territory with this design.

If you build the full height version (6-8m), can you cut it back down to 3-4m if it's too woobly? (I am presuming you have access to a crane to install the darn thing in the first place).

Best,
EB

[gregbradley]

I suppose the end of my larger scopes must be about 2.4 metres off the ground. Hard to say if the ground effects are influencing the images at all or not. What is noticeable is the seeing and its effect on a long focal length scope.

Poor seeing is absolutely shocking and so bad the scope basically can't be focused.

So I suspect its a mild effect. I have put a fan on the scope in the past to disperse any ground effect and I could not see any difference.

I have a small concrete slab, a pier concrete slab that has a lot of steel in it and 914mm deep and about 900 x 900 or so. Then a Pegasus pier which is around 1.2 metres tall then the mount and scope.

Never had a problem from wind or shake or any vibrations. Solid as a rock.

Observatory is lightweight pine framing and colorbond roof and walls with aircell insulation. The roof has gaps around it due to the roll off structure so there is a small amount of airflow through that.

Spiders love the place. So do the mossies.

That's the observatory at home, at my dark site its simply a 200mm x 5mm thick steel pipe set in the ground 600mm and rapid set concrete then pavers for a floor. Again never had issues with vibrations. After all our mounts are well balanced.

Greg.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thankyou for your replies everyone.


Paul, thanks for writing, I dont want to be servicing or pulling it down from that height, so I have to think of as much as i can now :)

The dust extraction is actually a fan (2 now, one axial the other centrifugal), that blows air into the room and out through small gaps, keeping the inside air pressure a little above atmospheric. Hopefully this keeps out most of the dust.


So it appears true that there are resolution gains, even if small, by elevating the telescope. It will certainly be an interesting first few nights of data capture to see how things go. For sure, to make use of any resolution gains, one would need a telescope that can take advantage of that, and so focal length and image scale play a significant role here.



Ill be imaging at 2.5m F.L. with an image scale of 0.73"/Pix. One of the guys I spoke with was Russell Croman, he has a RCOS 20" in an elevated observatory, and he said he recons he got about (don't quote me or him on this) 0.25" better FWHM in his elevated dome.


Hi Eric, thankyou for writing. I can't say I have seen that article, but that is an interesting graph you have supplied. It's possible i could reduce the height if i really needed to, but that is a lot of work :eyepop:
My first course of action would be to sheet the outer frame in sheet iron to protect the pier from the wind, and see how that goes.


Josh

[Pepper]

I may have missed it somewhere but how are you powering this facility? Solar or on the grid?

[Joshua Bunn]

Hi Steve.


I haven't posted that yet, it'll be in the next post. But it will be with 20 solar panels and a lithium ion phosphate battery bank.
Josh

[multiweb]

Impressive fabrication Joshua. You seem to be a jack of all trade. Your workshop looks like a naval shipyard. It's huge. Can't wait to see how it all fits together at height. :eyepop: I like that shaded perspex for the all sky camera.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Marc. The workshop is great, very fortunate to have the space and equipment to build the observatory. The perspex is kind of experimental, we'll see how it goes 😁

[Joshua Bunn]

An update for you all who are interested...


The changes from my last post are an undercoate and topcoate of paint everywhere inside and out, white on the outside and flat black on the inside.


The other addition is I have added all the enclosures that will house the electronic equipment and conduit to go between everything and all around the Observatory. All the wires are in conduit for organisation and to keep rodents away from cables. I chose to use large conduit and a junction box on every corner so there will be no problems pulling cables around corners or if I want to add more later on.

I have separate conduit for Ethernet, 240 volt AC and various voltages of DC electrics.
Next is to add the wires, the fun part :D


The white conduit bellow the enclosures is for air ventilation for cooling electronics, the air comes from the 2 fans in the Observatory, which is pulled from outside.


Cheers Josh

[croweater]

Wow Joshua, that is impressive :eyepop: . Certainly beats my extension cord and 4 plug power brick :lol:
Seriously though that looks great mate. Keeps the posts coming.
Cheers,Richard :)

[Joshua Bunn]

Thank you Rick. If that's what works for you, that is awesome 🙂
Thanks for writing :thumbsup:

[Paul Haese]

Man I thought I was a neat freak. Totally awesome looking system setup Josh. It's going to be impressive just on looks alone.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Paul. I think it's nearly as much about esthetics as it is functionally, who doesn't like organisation, I mean, if something hits the fan, it's easier to diagnose. Could you imagine diagnosing something in a mess of all these wires and components 🙄😂

[Paul Haese]

Yep, been there before, hence why I got more creative in my cable management. Trying to find cables which are effected by one thing or another is often the biggest part of the problem.

It's going to look very cool in the end. :thumbsup:

[jamespierce]

The electrical conduits are a work of art. I've tried hard to keep my cabling sane and have redone it several times to tidy it up but it's still messy in places. I love that space under the scope itself as a utility area.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks James, that's where the PC goes, under the mount.

[strongmanmike]

Soooooo, will you he opening the roof by hand Josh :question: :face:

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

Even if I did, still not as hardcore as pushing the dome to follow the scope, Mike :D

[strongmanmike]

Tribute to an early idol of mine https://youtu.be/0heLGE-oF0o

;)

[Joshua Bunn]

😂 oohh the work involved...

[Joshua Bunn]

Hi everyone.


Getting close now to the final installation. :D


I have everything wired up now, appart from the wires on the scope, which I'll do in the coming days, so for the next week or two, I'll let it run to sort out any issues that may arise.



The pictures show;
- The roof motor with 24v backup batteries
- the PC which will sit at the base of the mount, on the box is a USB SSD for periodic backups using Acronis software

- one of the enclosures with a couple of raspberry PI computers, and a couple of relays for roof closure redundancies.

- roof position sensors and a toggle switch so that the fans and dehumidifier can only operate if the roof is shut.
- Power supply equipment.

- an enclosure with solid state relays for remote power switching. Below them is the interactive astronomy sky roof hardware. To the right of that in the small enclosure is the 4g modem.

- then the fusses and bus bar enclosure.
- on the right of that is the enclosure with the IP switches. Prety self explanatory, turns on and off the gear, it's programmable and scriptable. In here is also some relays that are switched by the outputs from the modem, which is always on, so I'm able to power cycle the solid state relays to power cycle equipment. On the front of this enclosure is a simple ZWO 120 camera to view the state if the relays remotly for diagnostic purposes. Also there is a web cam on the front of the other box to monitor a relay which tels me if there is 240v from the 240v relay and therefore to the roof motor. Closure of the roof is quite important :lol:.
- the other 2 enclosures are for the DVR for the IP cameras, and for the Ethernet hubs. I made my own Ethernet cables to get exact lengths.
- lastly there is a programmable controller. Amongst the many things this can do, I'll use it for turning on the fans and dehumidifier based on humidity and temperature readings. It'll then send me an email, and log the days readings.


Afyer a few more paint touchups... I reckon it'll be on the truck in 2 weeks, on it's way to the site.

Thanks for reading if you got this far :D

[Joshua Bunn]

Last ones

[croweater]

Amazing job Joshua. Looking forward to seeing the final installation. Don't drop it!
Cheers, Richard :)

[marc4darkskies]

All I can say is ... extraordinary!!

[glend]

+1! Very professional wiring job.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Glen, Richard and Marc.

[nik_ozskyman]

great work!

[multiweb]

:eyepop: I have no idea of what I'm looking at although I recognised a ZWO on one of the panel but it looks bloody amazing. :lol:

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Lads.

I had plans to start movi g it to its location this weekend, but the truck was not available so it's next weekend now.

[FlashDrive]

What a labour of love that is .. a lot of time in this construction and a terrific end result..... also a lot of ' thought ' has gone into this project.

Col.

[dikman]

I just read the entire thread and I'm feeling exhausted!
A very impressive effort.:thumbsup:

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks for reading, Richard and Collin. I've tried to think of most things. It's going to be a hard job adding further items after its installed.


Josh

[strongmanmike]

Destined to be one of the great amateur observatories...stuff of legend :thumbsup:

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

Time will tell, thankyou Mike!


Tonight I'm moving everything to the site, except for the observatory top.
Next week is cementing, and the week after I'll put the observatory up top... That's the plan anyway :)


Josh

[jamespierce]

Outstanding - Ground seeing begone! Just stunning.

[strongmanmike]

This is me visiting your observatory...

Can't wait :)

Mike

[Phil Hart]

Omfg.

[Sunfish]

Nice looking legs Joshua. The project is like a rocket launch or a major building. Everything covered in every detail. The environment 9 m up will be cooler for sure and probably more balanced in the day as well as the night. The uplift will be severe in a big wind so I imagine you have some deep concrete under there.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Lads,


Mike, :rofl:cumon... isn't that a tad over the top lol!


Thanks Ray, to hold down the structure, there is about 11.5 tonne of concrete... 8 legs with each having a concrete pile poured underneath it, 600mm diameter and 2000mm deep at least, should give me just over 4m3 in total for the outer frame.

[multiweb]

Amazing planning. What kind of crane are you going to be using to erect everything?

[Sunfish]

I suppose the structure itself must weigh a few tons also.

Good deep piers below the weather sound good. I suppose it would be a little over the top drilling for rock in that flat stable location but a nuisance if you hit it.

I see each meerkat SKA dish has 8 concrete piles 5-10m deep and that is to stay perfectly located . So you are getting up there.

[Joshua Bunn]

Hi Marc, I will use a bobcat telehandler, it has a 10.5m lift.



Hi Ray, I will hit iron stone quite early where I will be drilling, it might last for about 1m.

[strongmanmike]

Not really, I'm a little dubious that your current built in crane might bend under my 140kg frame :face:, so l recon you may well need your Manitou :P

Mike

[Joshua Bunn]

How bout you go up the ladder and I attach the crane to you aswell as a safety in case you go bottoms up :shrug::lol:

[strongmanmike]

Deal :lol:

[Joshua Bunn]

Been a full on 2 weekends.
I got the 8 holes drilled for the outer frame, 4 holes drilled for the inner frame and 8 holes drilled for the solar panel frames. They were all concreted aswell. Good to have that done.
Used a long rope from the telehandler to find north :P


Josh

[Joshua Bunn]

Some more

[Anth10]

Quite a project Josh/ an engineers delight- this is going to be some observatory!

Power to you.
Anth

[croweater]

Pretty sure those solar panels won't blow away Joshua. Every now and then an epic project comes up on this forum. The last one for me was Stefan Buda's telescope. Now this beauty! Love it and looking forward to seeing the end result.
Cheers, Richard :)

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Anth and Rick.
Stefans' project was an interesting one for sure.

Funny you say that about the panels Richard, as the solar panel frames got blown off their chocks before concreting yesterday, the wind was that bad.

[Sunfish]

Nothing quite like finishing a set of drilled and filled pier footings. Must be very satisfying. I like your set out technique with the welded bar. Did you batch the concrete on site ?

[Joshua Bunn]

Absolutely Ray, very satisfying indeed, especially when you only end up with 40 or so liters of left over concrete. Yes this is batched on site.

[multiweb]

You've got some serious gear, hydraulic auger attachment and all. :eyepop:
Your site looks very exposed with the wind. You've mentioned the solar panels catching up. How bad does it get there? Are the footings going to be enough or are you going to hand some kind of weight under the tower to minimise sway and vibrations?

[TrevorW]

:question::D Excellent

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Trevor and Marc.


Marc, yes it's quite a windy site, but placing it up high on a mound I'm hoping it will help with seeing conditions. The outer frame can sway a bit that's not a problem, the inner frame which is the Square pyramid (my "pier") does not touch the outer frame at all and there is not much of a sail area for that to catch the wind.it is held down well and extremely rigid. As for vibrations on it, we will see. I can always clad the outer frame to deflect wind away from the ones frame.

[multiweb]

Not really worried about the tower itself as it doesn't present a big surface area to the wind but your box at the top will. Just thinking of keeping the center of gravity of the whole build as low as possible. If your solar panel frame was enough to move with no panels on it must be blowing a gale out there. Imagine with panels.

[Joshua Bunn]

Yes, the box at the top does, but I have used the correct amount of anchoring (concrete mass to depth) so it will stay put, and the frame, well that's strong enough. The solar panel frames moved because they were not concreted in yet 🙂

[Joshua Bunn]

Another weekend, and a little closer to completion. We got the frames up and bolted down, hopefully next weekend will see the observatory go up.

This link should take you to some photos with a video: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=29487430953526 59&id=100006509927194


Josh

[croweater]

Nice one Joshua. Good job getting all those bolts to line up. :)
Cheers, Richard

[multiweb]

Oh I see now. I thought the tower was made of two parts on top of each other. :lol: Well... that's not gonna go anywhere. :thumbsup:

[marc4darkskies]

Excellent Josh! Did all the bolts line up nicely or did you have to use some coercion?

[strongmanmike]

Like everyone else I am sure, can't wait to see the finished product...will surely be one of the single most impressive amateur observatories on the planet :thumbsup:

Mike
...did I mention that ladder scares me..? :question:

[dikman]

It's......tall! I'm surprised that you didn't fit a safety cage around that ladder.

[h0ughy]

Simply amazing

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks Guys.


There's a crane Richard :lol:
That's a big call Mike, and I think we all know that ladder scares you :D
Some bolts needed some assistance with a hammer and drift, Marc.

[Sunfish]

Great use of the telehandler placing both frames together. Would be hard without a crane otherwise. Gotta love a steel frame.

[Joshua Bunn]

Yeah, I'd be in a spot of bother without the telehandler, Ray.

[TrevorW]

Don't worry Mike that is only temporary until he puts the lift in ;):question::D

[Joshua Bunn]

Hi everyone, after a 6 hr drive down to 40Km/hr in places, a puncture with a bolt 10 km in and a crane lift, after coming to the conclusion i was not putting it up there with the telehandler... it's up... All went pretty smoothly to be honest, no scares thankfully. I've put the scope in, polar aligned, collimated, eliminated any chip tilt, next is some cable management and a Tpoint model then get the automation process underway etc.



Cheers
Josh

[Joshua Bunn]

BTW, there is no lift going in ;)
Here's some links to some timelapse:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/5g3fw0zicgnsc28/20200827_180535_1.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ej7ogev65786sn/received_2693006564294949.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ujol2hcbbfxc1i/rendered.mp4?dl=0



Please let me know if they work.


Cheers

[h0ughy]

Wow I am awestruck and gobsmacked at the same time

[strongmanmike]

:scared2:.......

Well?...after catching my breath Josh....all I can say initially is..:question:..Fugg me dead! :eyepop:

Unbelievably incredibly impressively amazingly stupendous.... :scared2:

The time lapse of using the crane was pretty cool...hey, I'm still scared :whistle: but looking at you guys scampering up and down in fast motion made it look pretty benign... :P

Congratulations on an amazing project, you have certainly set the mark for the top position of amateur observatory construction :)

Mike

[DavidU]

Wow, just wow !!!

[strongmanmike]

It's funny, I like many others, have been looking at and enjoying this project progress and have imagined it completed...but man, the final product is even more incredible than imagined...speechless is a well used term but in this instance is pretty fitting. To conceive, design, construct and bring to completion such an inspired concept, is truly incredible...nicely done Josh, you are now the king of observatories aaand by a country mile! :)

Mike

[muletopia]

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

[strongmanmike]

:cheers:...I can't stop looking at these photos and time lapses...:drink:

I wish I lived in WA/Perth...:mad2:

[DarkArts]

Is that an observatory or a launch complex?

[lazjen]

Wow, what a setup. :eyepop:

[multiweb]

That's an awesome build Josh. Those videos on FB are pretty cool. :thumbsup:
I see now how important it was to go up high. That red dust at ground level would be an issue in the long run to stay on top of.

[dikman]

I can imagine quite a few people seeing that and wondering WTF? Spread a rumour that it's an ASIO spy station keeping an eye on China's Mars mission.:lol:

[DavidTrap]

Wow!

Hope you reap the rewards from your efforts thus far.

DT

[Sunfish]

Felicitations for topping out.
The time lapse is great.

[Joshua Bunn]

Thanks everyone for writing, sorry for the long delay.
I've been testing and running a few things in the observatory, found a couple of things that need modifying. Hopefully i can get them on this weekend and ill post some pictures of it.








What a sensation! thanks David :)





Hahaha, I'm half Italian, so i found that pretty funny :rofl:






Thanks for writing Mike, always find your comments entertaining :) yeah the ladder didn't fall off haha and the winch worked well.





cheers Dave!





Thanks Mike, high praise indeed. funny you say that, about 10 minutes after it went up, and the crane had left, I stood there and thought... yes, its pretty tall :rolleyes::rolleyes: :lol:




yes, what you said ... :lol: thanks Chris




recon I could do both :question:





Thanks Chris :thumbsup:





Thanks Marc, yes that, and hopefully up into some steadier air :)





and they'd probably believe it to :lol:





So do I David, thankyou.





thanks Ray, I like them to :)

[LostInSp_ce]

:eyepop: One of the most impressive builds I've ever seen Joshua. Absolutely magnificent all-round from concept to completion! A real treasure. Thanks for sharing.

[ChrisM]

Simply amazing Joshsua! I caught up with this thread only today and have just spent an hour going through it and looking at the pics and videos. Wonderful stuff! Having built a slightly non-standard obs myself, I have an idea of some of the challenges you faced, but huge credit to your design and construction abilities! Your pier looks _very_ stiff so I doubt that it would have any low frequency component to its resonance. Your lattice construction reminded me of the stiff frames I saw under the 8 m mirrors at the VLT in Chile (pic attached).



In support of the general consensus on having a pier tall enough to get above the ground effect, I discussed that with an amateur in the US who built a pier about 4 or 5 m tall for just that reason. He carried out some site tests prior to settling on his design, whereby he made actual measurements at 'normal' height and again at ~4 or 5 m above the ground. From memory, he got an improvement of ~0.7 arcsec at the increased height.



I may have missed it, but have you said what telescope and mount you will be installing?



All the best,
Chris

[Joshua Bunn]

Thankyou for writing! its great when a plan comes together :)





Thank you Chris.


Yes, there are a few non standard challenges. I will be doing an update post in the coming weeks with how things are going.
I have stood under those VLT telescopes, they are awesome as you would know. The pier, is very rigid for sure. with the happy snaps and test shots i have taken before getting automation going, i have seen a marked improvement in seeing compared to my previous site, but i don't have a comparison at this site for ground level vs 9m up. 0.7" is a hugh improvement, well worth the effort for the guy in the US. I downloaded a frequency measurement app to my phone, for memory, the pier resonated at around 1000 Htz, but i can check that again.


At the moment i have a PME and Planewave CDK 12.5 in there.


clear skies,
Joshua

[Spleenus]

That looks like one heck of a beast - glad to see it wasn't built in Albany with all the cloud that keeps rolling in.....relentlessly!!! Looking forward to seeing more updates come through on this project.

[Joshua Bunn]

Hi Darren.
Nice to see another Albanyite on here :) we know the clouds all to well. It would have been such a waste to build along the south coast. I have some more updates to come yet...


Cheers
Joshua