My new Mt Pleasant ROR observatory

[bojan]

This is the continuation from previous thread (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=105922&page=6).. since I abandoned the idea about geo-dome, I thought I should start a new thread to avoid confusion.
Anyway, weekend was pretty successful, all preparations are now done for "real" work.
Basically, I am going for Richmond system for hanging doors (Bunnings). Only the ROR will be obviously horizontal, riding between two 60mm channel rails.
As to pier, it will be built from concrete blocks (390x190x190 mm). Last 1.2 m will be concrete poured into cardboard tube ø200mm diameter (on picture below, concrete pier is presented by black cable reel, as its height is the same (55cm).

As a safety measure, I placed temporarily a floor door on the opening for pier, so I can't fall through in the garage below (again... - while concentrating on what's up, I forgot about down... So I tested the effects Earth gravity. The test went well, except for a small bruise on my bottom).

[xelasnave]

I am so happy to see you concentrating on your project. You will find it will be complete in no time at all.

Good luck and keep posting as to progress, ideas difficulties and list all falls and broken bones.
Be careful maybe a rope around the waist as a sort of safty harness...if nothing else it will remind you not to fall.
Well done keep up the good work.
Alex

[bojan]

Tanks for good wishes Alex :-)
The biggest problem so far was removal of thermal insulation (mulched paper?) Very dusty job, two trash cans full of stuff.

[xelasnave]

Well dont throw it out☺.
A paper bust of someone..Newton would be good...you should have hosed it down.
And add reinforcement in your cement. .star pickets chicken wire at least..even i side the bricks.
Alex

[bojan]

Alex,

already disposed off.. I simply cant keep it - my storage space is limited.

[bojan]

This is the roof in question...

[xelasnave]

So what will you make your bust of Newton from now?☺
Keep at it..do a little something every day...I wish I was closer so I could give you a hand.
Alex

[bojan]

Alex, thank you for your offer, I really appreciate the intent..
As to material for bust, I have lot more of stuff in the rest of the roof.. And I still have that pain in the b*** to remind me of existence of gravity ;)

[xelasnave]

At an advanced age normal falls are life threatning so please be careful.

Just keep at it and I know so much presents to keep one away from the really important things..getting your observatory is however the most important thing to focus upon.

If you look at all we do it becomes apparent that little of our efforts are just for us...there is so little time left unfortunately, a fact we carelessly overlook, so we must remain focused upon getting something out of the deal before everything passes us by.

And although GR does not treat gravity as a force I feel that approach is inconsistent with the injuries one can get ... now if one views gravity as a mountain of particles pushing one to the floor that for me makes more sense☺

Good luck and I look forward to regular postings of updates on your progress...very regular☺
Alex

[dikman]

Looks like someone has discovered the joys of using "foam in a can"!:lol:

[Sunfish]

I like the way you have filled all the flutes in the sheeting below the capping to keep the bugs and wind out of the roof. Profiled corrugated foam filler sections are expensive and hard to put in , especially single handed, so a lot of people just don’t bother. But it is required. Particularly in a bushfire zone.

The foam filler is genius.

Maybe you will trim it off one day without scratching the roof but no one will see it.

[bojan]

Tracks arrived yesterday from Bunnings.
Due to some confusion with part numbers and descriptions, I am still waiting for wheel hangers, hopefully not for much longer.
They are 3m long, so I will cut one in half and extend the other two, this will be 4.5m, enough for 2.2m lid to slide-open fully.
This system is meant for hanging door, but I will use it side-ways...

Now I am waiting for warmer weather for concrete work (pier)

[xelasnave]

That's great.
But it's better for concrete to pour it in cooler weather;)
Alex

[bojan]

It is also harder to find concreter to do this small job ;)

[Sunfish]

Very inventive use of standard product. I do like a good detail drawing.

What are the stats for the concrete pier? 3m high plus the height above floor around 200 diameter I suppose and with reinforcing and big concrete base at the bottom ?

[bojan]

Ray,
I have two options (most likely is the first one):

- Bunnings concrete blocks 400x200x200mm, 2m above existing concrete slab and ~1m deep (see drawing).
- 3m, ø350mm Sonotube or equivalent, filled with concrete.


I intend to use existing steel pier (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment_browse.php?a=130093) (it is now in our Melbourne backyard).


I plan to finish this by end of month, depending on concreter's availability.

[johnyb]

Good luck on your build Bojan. I am keen to read of your progress. A good use of an existing building. I cant wait for the next progress report.

cheers
John

[Sunfish]

Another good drawing of the arrangement. Will you concrete fill and reinforce the blockwork pier with some deformed bars? I suppose the heavier the reinforcing the better. My office used to be in a three level brick building and it would shimmy in every little tremor.

[bojan]

It will be something like this:
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/430284-pier-diameter/?p=5555324 (https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/430284-pier-diameter/?p=5555324)

Many more ideas are here (https://www.google.com/search?q=telescope+pier+brick&tbm=isch&source=univ&client=firefox-b-d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjN49yMyLXkAhVHfX0KHVIJB3 UQsAR6BAgHEAE&biw=1901&bih=779#imgrc=hL8605S_PNQXBM:).
In highschool times, I spent many, many evenings in the dome of the Zagreb's Observatory... it's telescope is mounted on brick arch ~0.75m square, 4~5m high on the upper floor of the building..
Yes, the whole building (11th century tower (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Zvjezdarnica_Zagreb.jpg)) was shaking when occasional truck passed through the street below, but due to isolated wooden floor of the dome, our own movements inside did not affect the scope (for visual).
And, it will be only me in the studio (or the setup will be operated remotely from living room) so... I do not expect problems.
I only hope the pier will eventually stabilise quickly and not move significantly over lnger period of time..
One funny thing is also the same (or similar).. to my young days.. the smell of the pigeon poo was overwhelming during summer evenings when climbing on the wooden stairway (the space between stone walls and woodwork was infested by them).. and here in Mt Pleasant my neighbour keeps pigeons.. so I am also sor of travelling back in time with this project :-).

[JA]

It sounds like you're making great progress Bojan. Enjoy yourself :thumbsup:

Best
JA

[Sunfish]

Sounds like a lot of fun getting back to the scope at the top of the studio. Very convenient. Yes the trains made my brick office shake.

I am still not sure why everyone digs a square hole and builds up from the bottom while most buildings are built on drilled 450 diameter piers. Drilled and filled in one day by one contractor and could not cost more and yet would be deeper and stiffer. Not hard to fill yourself with a barrow.

[bojan]

Concrete blocks are also quick to place and the overall cost is the ~same...
I decided not to do it myself, it would have done it 10 years ago but in my 70'ies .. it is better for me if someone else do it :-)

[Sunfish]

Yes, in your case inside a building, filled reinforced concrete blockwork is the way to go. Glad you have someone to help.

I just wonder about the logic in an open field with access to machinery, disturbing all that ground. Even screw piles might be better.

[bojan]

Well, next week is a go for pier.
Concreter can't say which day when exactly, but job will be finished by Thursday 26th (Friday is AFL holiday in VIC).

On coming weekend I will try to cut the square hole in existing concrete slab (using angle grinder, diamond disk and plenty of water), the cut off may then be used as a base for pier at the bottom of the pit.. all depends on concreter.

[bojan]

Pier is in place...

[Sunfish]

Well done Bojan. Cut the concrete and got the pier in. Looks good and solid.

[bojan]

Yep, it should be sufficiently stable.

What's not shown on images is the hole we dug (~75cm), where the pier sits.
Next step is to build the lid and then open the roof....

[bojan]

Just bought 4 of those (https://www.bunnings.com.au/carinya-280-x-75-x-50-x-6mm-galvanised-heavy-duty-angle-bracket_p3961571):
They will be mounted on the outside wall of study, to support those (https://www.bunnings.com.au/richmond-hanging-gate-wall-mount-bracket-for-60mm-channel_p3962591).



Getting there.. slowly but surely.



After the rails are mounted on the roof, I will need couple of sunny days to remove the color bond sheets from the roof (and expose the obs to the sky) and place new sheets on the sliding frame.....

[xelasnave]

:D

Great to see you are getting there the first thing I look for is how you are going.
Alex

[bojan]

Alex,

thank you for your moral support :-)
It is a slow progress, but I am not in a hurry... I am thinking obs to be operational by end of Jan next year.

[xelasnave]

I am in a hurry and it is still a slow process.
I honestly thought mine being so simple would be finished in a month.
Alex

[bojan]

Well, mine could also be finished in 2 man/weeks in total...

But because I am still working for the man full time, and Ballarat is 120km away... I simply have to be patient with all this.

Also, I do not want to make another conceptual mistake.. because once something like this is done (like removing perfectly good roof) it is very expensive to go back a step. Not to mention the explaining the situation to SWMBO...

So... no hurry.

[xelasnave]

I had some great news this morning.
Went out the drive and there are two workmen in the way sitting at a card table having morning tea...they moved of course but told me that the dirt road is in the process of being paved...even though a little way from the road the dust was worrying me...so hopefully by the time the observatory is fine nished the dust problem won't be there.
I am just so lucky.
Alex

[bojan]

Did you asked them to help you with obs?

[xelasnave]

No I don't need any help.
It's near done. I only have to drive in the star pickets mix half a mtr of concrete, screw down the floor and its more or less done.
Putting up the telegraph poles for the van pup tent seems difficult but I can do it.
It's funny with crook legs I have introduced all sorts of things to lift and move stuff that and patience gets all sorts of jobs done.
I hope to move some batteries that it takes three big men to move just with my new stuff..endless chain (2 of) little turfer lots of rope and ramps.
I find it satisfying.
Alex
Alex

I have both piers complete and all the bolts.
Alex

[bojan]

Work is progressing.. too slow for my taste but considering heat and my age... I'm guessing it can't be much better

[bojan]

Progress so far.. during un-planned holiday (company I worked for went belly-up. It will re-surface like phoenix, but it still remain to be seen if I will be re-instated...)

[xelasnave]

Sorry to hear about the company but take advantage of the turn of events. Little and often is the key. Good luck and don't over extend yourself.
Alex

[Sunfish]

Looks like it is rolling nicely.

[bojan]

Yes, movement is smooth.
to prevent rain ingress, I used 70mm brush (Bunnigs).. I hope it will be sufficient.
Anyhow, possible refinements (and I have couple of them on my mind already) will be much easier from inside, once the roof is opened (this will be done in the next couple of weekends... because as the things are at the moment, I will have my job back (in the new/old company), starting from tomorrow) .

[Sunfish]

Good new all round. I have door side and bottom seals on my garage a door and they work very well.

[xelasnave]

How was the first day back?
I hope you can put aside at least 30 minutes to edge forward. Just think of the time you spent helping me..I want you to give that sort of time to you and the project.
It's such a great time to get this done, little opportunity of astronomy so get the building finished asap. It's a wonderful opportunity..and with this virus this cut out going anywhere...you know also you must set a completion date..you would on any other project.
Alex

[bojan]

Same... remains to be seen how long it will last ;)

[xelasnave]

One day at a time, going in or not you have plenty of thi.ngs to do.
Alex

[bojan]

Well, after 4 months, the work can continue :clap:

[xelasnave]

It must have been very taxing for you ... I have been lucky here in the bush able to get stuff done.
I wish I was closer I would come and give you a hand.
Good luck with the restart.
Alex.

[bojan]

Alex, thanks for the offer, for me it's the same as you were really here :-)
Yes, it was challenging time, but this hobby made a very patient person out of me.
First I have to inspect the damage (roof was leaking.. ), then plan how to progress from there.

[xelasnave]

The suspense has been killing me...was there any roof damage?

I hope you have been able to break the habit formed due to the virus of not doing anything on your observatory each day back to at least doing one small thing...even sitting with a cuppa looking and thinking can be productive.

I just want to encourage you is all.

I already know from personal experience you are a good person happy to help others but I fear that you do not set aside enough time for you.

With respect, having thought about this type of thing, you really don't have all that much time left in life to enjoy the things you will put off to that magic day when you do all these things you put off...and being a fit and capable man you no doubt proceed in the belief that these qualities will always be with you and sadly I think you will find that may not be the case..my point is you really should put the observatory on the top of your to do list and rush to make it happen.

With respect

Alex

[bojan]

Alex,

Thank you :-)
Well, I was in situ on the first day the travel from Melbourne was allowed and everything survived.. actually, the leak I was afraid of did not do any real damage.
This weekend I took some measurements of the roof support and started to plan where to do a first cut, without introducing new problems :-)
Next weekend (if weather permits) I will go to Bunnings to get some beams and provide support for existing structure, then I will cut out the corrugated sheets to make the 1.6x1.6 metres opening.. then... whatever will come next. I already figured I could have done couple of things differently (like roll off sheet, it could have been smaller.. the original plan was 2.2 meter hole, but in the meantime I decided to put C11 there instead of 10" Newt which will remain on Dob as it was all those years)

And the most of last Sunday I spend doing grass in the backyard, it looked pretty wild.. but not too much, even some garlic managed to grow out of it in the back :-)

[bojan]

First light.. well not quite yet, but getting there :)

[Pepper]

Looking good. Nothing says progress like a gaping hole in the roof.

[bojan]

Exactly right :)

[xelasnave]

Good on you Bojan. It makes me very happy to see that you are making real progress...just keep at it daily and it will be finished in no time at all...I have probably mentioned this before but I keep a book and list jobs showing the time of day it can be done, the time it will take, what is needed and cost..that way if I have 20 minutes to spare I look to see if I have a job 20 minutes or under if it can be done at night and if I have the bits or enough money handy to buy what is needed.
Only this morning I organised what I have to do on separate large sheets of paper as I have run out of small notes books..current projects..rebuild jetty...have beams need planks..determine cost, calculate number of screws, put boat in dam as work platform..I now have the boat here and purchased bungs..have life jacket in car now.. it's the little things that hold you up eh,......set up new electric system..make pad, erect shed, order batteries etc, bring solar panels from house erect same, reference to cost spread sheet in the paper work, build car port..it has plans and reference to spread sheet, connect water tank...list of fittings, filters, in line pump, battery, charger for same, ....ride on mower, need its dimentions before purchase for a shed, erect shed before purchase, fire pumps make pad, ( the pad I made only weeks ago got destroyed cause I had the earth mover back and had him level a picnic area..had him back to fix the main drive destroyed by the rain...connect fire hose and 19 mm Polly pipe for sprinkler system...I would not get anything done without this paper work to remind me of little things like getting fitting to connect the tank..or start digging for a pad for the shed...so now I have had a rest I will put a couple of minutes into sorting the pad area for the mower shed...the pad region for the electricals got done by the earth mover..buy cement get sand..I have already built the form work ..only when he was gone did it jerry I needed a mower shed...so by hand unfortunately.

I look forward to another post from you updating progress real soon.
Alex

[bojan]

Getting there, slowly but surely.
Last night rain was was a good test, passed with flying colors.. and not a drop of water inside.

What's left to do is just a bit of cosmetics and touch of paint.

Then the next step is relocation of pier from Mount Waverley to Mount Pleasant....

[PKay]

Good job Bojan, keeping out the water is always tricky.

Can't you make a new pier?
Might be easier.

[bojan]

It's possible to make another one.. but I already have it, and it is not used much recently (LP in Melbourne is terrible and getting worse with each year) so I was thinking it may be more useful in Ballarat, at least for a while.

[JA]

Excellent Bojan :thumbsup: I have a similar, skylight opening upstairs that I was thinking of converting to observatory use. Your project is a good reminder to me to get on with it.

Best
JA

[Sunfish]

Excellent Bojan. Good to see the work come together successfully.

[Nab]

Hey Bojan, It's looking great. Seeing and transparency were also great last night.. (M1 and M78 in 81mm scope) and looking the same for tonight. You had better get on and finish it!

cheers.
Darren.

[bojan]

Ready for transport to Mount Pleasant over long weekend...

[bojan]

Observatory Mt Pleasant is open for business :)....

[Sunfish]

That really is the business. A Most excellent slice of Sky.

[xelasnave]

Congratulations Bojan I can not tell you how happy I am to see you set up.
Alex

[bojan]

Thank you guys for kind words :-)
Yes, it will be much easier now to do some more serious stuff - too complicated setups just have to be left undisturbed for prolonged time before the particular project is completed..

[bojan]

PKay (peter) gave me an idea for motorizing my ROR (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/363264073665?&ul_noapp=true&autorefresh=true)...
I will try to replace the 2" belt with two ~2.5 cm ones (separated with thin collar) or rope such that while one of them is winding, another one is un-winding.
I will also try to replace the handle with DC motor from hand drill (with its own planetary gear box and torque control).
Next week....

[xelasnave]

Good luck getting something that works in practice can be difficult...I had many failures but it works well now...
Alex

[bojan]

This is how it will look like..
I need to make the coupler for motor and spool where the strip will be fixed and wound.
Also, I may need to use smaller strip, 2x 25mm width is a bit tight fit.

[bojan]

Spool core is made of wood...

I will split it, and then glue it around the shaft on the metal spool, mounting screw goes into slot.

This way it will be easer to fix both strips (even with small screws into wood if nothing else works).

[JA]

Hi Bojan,

Looks like a good solution. If I get your idea correctly, it's 2 counter wrapping straps around the hub connected to act like a long belt to which the roof is attached, so that you "simply" change motor direction (polarity) to open or close. The only thing I would be concerned about (especially with the tight fit crossways (2x25mm)) is that the 2 straps might snag, especially when one side of the spool is fully wound out and the other side fully wound in. In that case there may be a tendency for the wound up strap to slip off of itself and on to the other side. A barrier between both sides would prevent that, even through I can see there's not much room.

I also think it might be a challenge to get enough length of strap on to the spool, depending on how big your roof opening is, but I'm sure you'll nail it either way.


Another possibility might be a used (or new) garage door mechanism or sliding gate/door straight gear rack & motor.

Good luck

Best
JA

[bojan]

Yep, I plan to put barrier. I also found 20mm strap (Vardhman Threads, Auroa), ~1$/m.



The lid travel is ~ 2.5 metres, and the original spool came with 6 metres of strap, that is why I put in that insert (ø40mm), to "even up" the spool diameter because it is dependent on amount of wound strap...

BTW, belt will be tightened only when fully opened or closed, in the middle the strap will be "limp" because fully wound spool will "use" more strap (because of wider diameter).
I plan to fully wound one side first with ~3m of strap when lid is open, then fix the end of the strap to the lid and then close the lid by hand, allowing the other side of the spool to wound.. then fix the other side.

This the plan.. We'll see how it un-wounds ;)

[bojan]

Waiting now for straps...
Arrived today.

[bojan]

Yesterday afternoon and evening... not much done (it rained, on and off), but it is habitable.

[JA]

Excellent Bojan.... and a Juliette style balcony too:thumbsup:

Best
JA

[h0ughy]

Oh wow that's a cool factor, excellent results from your hard work:thumbsup:

[bojan]

After some experimenting, it appeared the direct coupling of the drill motor would not be adequate.. so I decided to cannibalize the old hand drill that was doing nothing in the drawer for 20 years....
Gears were attached to shafts by means of threads (M12, 3/8-24).
Now working on the motor bracket...

[Sunfish]

Great to see the obs in operation. What is the plan for access to the eyepiece? A step ladder or a platform?

I have one of those drills from around 1950. The Pope Falcon. Solid construction. I still use mine for tiny 1 mm drill bits.

[bojan]

Ray,

it will be step ladder first, then platform.. which may be a safety issue because then some sort of fence will be needed.. it is not good to fall 1 m down in the dark ;)

[Sunfish]

A platform with a handrail sounds good. I have a second very tall pier which faces the same problem. Picking ladders with wheels, platform and rail are too expensive.

[bojan]

Winch motor mounted on machined bracket...

[Merlin66]

Bojan,
For my ROR I use a continuous cable connected to both sides of the roof, running over two pulleys and currently manual, but could easily be converted to a drive system. Basic and functional.

[bojan]

So far I was using only my hands (after climbing on a chair), and it wasn't hard to do at all.. At the moment I have 20mm straps from each side of the ROR that will go on the winch.
However, I want all that to be automated one day.. so I am taking my time with the project, I don't want to do something to prevent that final goal.. because I know myself (I tend to get used to things.. even if they are not too comfortable. And, recently I like to challenge myself..)

[bojan]

Motor is on the winch...
Next step is to think about forward/backward switch.
Most likely it will be custom made mechanical unit at first (3D printed collar mounted at motor bottom, using existing solder terminals as switch contacts).
The final solution will be H-bridge with suitable interface (USB, to be controlled by comp).

[JA]

Good to see your industriousness :thumbsup:

Best
JA

[bojan]

C11 in action (visual for now)... finally.

[Sunfish]

Very cool. Is that a. Brush seal on your ROR.?

[bojan]

Yes, courtesy Bunnings.. Work very well.

Couple of drops of water on the floor sometimes is due to condensation, I still have to sort it out (with polystyrene sheets most likely).

[Merlin66]

Looking good.
Enjoy the benefits of your hard work.

[xelasnave]

Good on you Bojan, I am very happy for you.
Alex

[Sunfish]

Yes , that sounds like it would help along with a vapour barrier under the styrene to keep the warm internal air off the metal roofing. Perhaps taping up the styrene joints would work.

[xelasnave]

Bojan I think having a water proof cover over things is a good idea. It is easy to think that its inside so there is no need but I feel such is a sensible approach... minimises dust if nothing else.

I like using that aluminium foil stuff with foam on one side doubled so you have foil on both sides as it is not only water proof but a very good insulator.
Alex

[bojan]

Alex,
We are like-minded :-)
I actually use exactly that (moisture barrier stuff that goes under the floating flooring).


BTW, I also decided to rotate OTA by 180° so the finder is now closer to mount and lower, I can use it on lower objects (this has yet to be tested).

I will use the other (right) side of ADM plate for guiding scope.

[xelasnave]

Yes thats the stuff.
The girls here decided they did not like the fake plastic "timber" flooring and as they will just ripped it up...and thats how I discovered it... there was heaps of it and I used it on all sorts of things, which I cant remember, maybe in the small observatory??? and had to buy a big roll finally for the scopes...
But as I said I am so very happy to see you get this done ...now you must work less and use it...good luck.
Alex

[bojan]

All is OK with mt Pleasant Obs.. after 4 months of lockdown and earthquake and couple of pretty strong storms :)

BTW, I found something better for dew shield - 10mm foam covered/reinforced with Al foil. It can be sprayed with black paint to improve blackness of the foam surface (it is dark grey).

[xelasnave]

Very happy to hear that all was ok.
Alex