Nagler 22mm T4 Eye piece

[Startrek]

I am considering adding a Nagler 22mm T4 Eye piece to my collection for high quality medium to low power observing

Appreciate any comments / experience with the above eye piece

The eye piece will be used in a 6” OTA ,10” dob and 12” dob

I currently have the following eye pieces -

9mm Bintel Plössl
15mm Bintel Plössl
30mm Bintel super view plossl
7mm TV DeLite
4.5mm TV Delos
6mm TV Delos
10mm TV Delos
17.3mm TV Delos

Thanks in advance

[The Mekon]

All I can say Martin, is that you have a 17.3 Delos - do you need anything else? I have an 18" F4.5 and started out with a 13mm T6 and 27mm Panoptic combination. Once I bought the 17.3mm Delos I hardly use any other eyepiece in it, despite splurging on a 26mm T5 Nagler. I probably should have saved my money and not bought the 26mm.

[MattT]

I owned a 22T4 for a while....didn’t really do much for me. Sort of an OK eyepiece, but something missing. Much preferred my Panoptic 22 for the view.

Spend cash on the Nag 31 instead....wide and real good, specially with a coma corrector.

Another choice...Panoptic 35mm, wide...surprisingly good without a coma corrector. Personally I like the 70 degree feel.

[casstony]

The 22mm Nagler needs a Paracorr to perform well in a Dob; the edge of field is poor otherwise. From memory I also had trouble seeing the whole field of view at once in other types of scope due to a curved exit pupil.

The ES 24mm or the discontinued Axiom 23mm are decent and cheaper alternatives.

As Matt says the Nagler 31mm is more or less perfect though all longer focal length eyepieces benefit to varying degrees from a Paracorr. Once again the ES 30mm is a cheaper and very good alternative.

[Wilso]

I enjoy the views of the 22T4 quite a lot, probably use it more than my 31 Nagler.
One of my favourite eyepieces in my frac's though, superb wide field in my Fsq.
Some eyepieces match better to different scopes and to the observer (we are all different).
I would suggest try and having a look through 1 at a star party in a dob to make your own mind up. Other points to consider is mag, true field of view from a 82deg-70deg field of view. You'll probably need a paracorr as others have suggested , and then you'll want the 31nagler as well to go with it :rofl::rofl:

Large curvature of the bottom lens shown

[astro744]

The 22NT4 has 50% more field stop diameter than the 17.3 Delos and therefore 50% more true field. The 31NT5 andf 22NT4 also complement each other very well as there is considerable true field difference there too on the same 'scope.

A Paracorr does clean up the last 5% of the 22NT4 (by flattening 1.15x) when used in a large Newtonian and that combination is very impressive. When use on a flat field refractor the 22NT4 is just about perfect as is.

[issdaol]

I have the 22 Nagler.

For a 82 AFOV EP I find that it performs very well in all of my scopes (see signature for details there).

However by direct comparison my Tak LE24 is much sharper and resolves cores of globular clusters a lot better...however the LE24 is not a wide field EP at all.

So the important thing here is what your purpose is ....if that wide AFOV is most important factor then the Nagler 22 delivers nicely.

But if you want sharpness to resolve fine detail then there are better choices.

I keep both because I like to swap and change on a single viewing session to appreciate both qualities.

[LewisM]

Agree with Phil. The TV is wider, but the Tak is noticeably sharper, and a Parks/Masuyama clone or a Masuyama even sharper again (my Masuyama 20 is exceptional in my FSQ-85EDX).

I personally disliked all the Naglers I used - nice FOV, but I personally prefer a sharp image over a wide FOV. I specifically look for targets, not the whole sky :)

[bigjoe]

Couldnt agree more here Lewis..

Sold nearly all my TV Naglers and Deloi , as the TAKAHASHI Eps are noticeably sharper as were Parks, and with extraordinary Clarity and far less SCATTER on bright objects, ruining the image and detection of faint Secondaries, and once thought Televue was tops..how wrong I was...Even some VIXEN NLVs are better than the similar TVs optically ...though still LOVE my PANS.

bigjoe.

[Startrek]

Thanks so much for all the expert comments , however I did mention that my consideration for the 22mm Nagler T4 was based on using this eye piece with a 6”OTA, 10” dob and 12” dob for low power wide field viewing

Are all the comments still relevant to using this proposed eye piece in my reflector telescopes

Just thought I would ask ?

[GrahamL]

I used mine for quite a while in a 12" dob.

I liked the eye relief and for me ease of use, a real fall into view , the
the wide fov and this magnifcation seemed to be a good fit for my scope
It was also as heavy as i could cope without major counterweight improvements

the edge is a little soft and it is noticable , for me i didn't get a parracor and kept the eyepiece for a long time it ticks a lot of boxes

[casstony]

At low magnifications you'll see little to no difference on axis between the various decent eyepieces, so you may as well go for a wider field eyepiece such as Televue/ES 82 degree eyepieces.

[dpastern]

I don't have the 22mmT4, but I do have the 12mmT4 and well...hate it. Eye placement on the T4's is truly HORRID. I'd read about them being finicky, but didn't realise they'd be that bad, otherwise I'd have passed on the eyepiece. The 22mmT4 suffers from the same eyepiece placement issues as the 12mm btw.

I have a nice TAL 24mm 80 degrees eyepiece which is much nice in terms of eye placement, has a slightly warmer tone, is cheaper and is just as sharp. ymmv.

[issdaol]

If you don’t have the Nagler 22T4 how can you claim to know it suffers from the same placement issue :shrug:

I observe with glasses....and have never had a “eyepiece placement” problem with any of the EP’s in my collection....so apart from unusual cases extremely bad EP’s .....I think these effects are more of a individual experience than across the board.

[dpastern]

Have a good read of the CN forums - you'll see tonne of posts about eye placement issues with the 12mm t4 nagler, and many users hating it. You'll also see that there are quite a few people who've owned both the 12mm and 22mm and expressed that the eye placement issues are problematic across the entire t4 range...

I haven't used any of my ES 82 degrees eyepieces yet, but I am wary of UWA eyepieces to be honest - they suit some people and for others, they are nothing but trouble.

I wouldn't consider buying a 22mm t4 nagler after my experiences with the 12mm. I'm not saying Nagler's are bad, don't get me wrong.

[Wilso]

The Nagler 22T4 is a very easy eyepiece to use, even comes with the Instajust for eyeglass users.
Being a large 2" 82deg wide field eyepiece with a lot of glass you do get a very immersive effect while viewing. Maybe some people are trying to focus too much on something at the edge of field and inadvertently reposition their eye or that matter head - resulting in a blackout effect ( when they should possibly adjusting the telescope to take a better look) :shrug:

[dpastern]

So, all those people who've had issues wth the 22t4 and 12t4 are all lying? yeah, right...

I've lost my patience trying to get the 12mm to work - it's serious black outs no matter what I do...but, i guess you'll say I'm either lying or incompetent eh?

Funny thing is, I don't have issues with other eyepieces...and my issues with the 12t4 echo that of many other users...

[astro744]

I think some people are more sensitive to eye placement on certain eyepieces than others. I have all three of the T4 Naglers and find them very easy to use and prefer their 82 degree field to that of the T6 series. The only Nagler I have ever had eye placement problems with is the original 13mm (now known as Type 1). I still like the 13mm Original very much and prefer it over the T6 for the field simply appears wider to me as it does too in the 12mm T4. In fact the 12mm T4 has almost the same true field as the 13mm T6 as there is only 0.5mm difference in field stop diameter.

The phenomenon is known as spherical aberration of the exit pupil. The Type 2 Nagler onwards had this corrected for most part. I don't own any T2 Naglers but have looked through the 12mm and 16mm many times a long time ago and cannot remember any eye placement issues with these.

Everyone can only look through their own eyes and what one person has a problem with the other may not and vice versa. The best solution for anyone contemplating getting any new eyepiece is to try one perhaps even in their own telescope at a star party or if that is not possible then at least at the store that sells them before they buy anything.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!

[dpastern]

yes, I'd definitely recommend trying before buying. If anyone wants to try my 12mm t4 in Brisbane, I'm happy to meet up for a night of observing :-)

I have near sightedness and mild astigmatism in my left eye, and presbyopia in my right, but I use my right eye for observing, so I don't think the issues with the t4 are down to my eyes. I've tried moving the eye back and forth away from the eyepiece without any real luck. When I can view things, the eyepiece is very sharp with neutral colours. I just get so much kidney bean effect from it...I suspect my eyes don't like UWA eyepieces as I had a few minor issues with a cheapie Andrews 30mm UWA years ago as well. The aforementioned TAL 24mm (80 degrees AFOV) is easily better with eye placement for me, when compared to the t4 nagler or andrews eyepieces. ymmv.

With that said, many users have disliked the 12mm t4 (and also the 22mm for the same reasons). I'm not making it up. A bit of research will show this. the 13mm t6 is probably a better bet in all honesty.

I like TV eyepieces btw (I have a 30mm plossl, and also a 3.5mm delos, the latter of which hasn't been used yet).

[Kunama]

Here you go Martin:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/586820-nagler-22-t4/

[Startrek]

Gee I’ve cooked up a storm with this Nagler eye piece !

Thanks everyone for the constructive evaluations and criticism Much appreciated !!

I have made my decision what to purchase with some simple advice from an extremely experienced amateur astronomer (40 plus years in the game )

I have purchased a Televue 27mm Panoptic and hope to use it over the next few nights if the weather is kind

Thanks again to all IIS members

[dpastern]

congrats!

[Don Pensack]

The 22T4 is, in my opinion, the best of the T4 Naglers. I find it super comfortable and easy to use.

Glasses wearers will love it with the eyecup in the down position.
Non eyeglass wearers will want to have the eyecup clicked up a few clicks.

If this eyepiece seems sensitive to eye placement, it is purely because of its long eye relief and using the eyepiece with the eyecup too close to the top lens.

That some people have issues with long eye relief eyepieces is evidenced by the "pupil-positioning washer" provided with the T4s. The washer forces the eye to locate more centrally so the user won't be tempted to either drift sideways or get too close to the lens, either of which can cause blackouts in the field being viewed.
This is especially a problem with people who stand to observe (a practice I've never understood unless a ladder is involved).

The huge eye lens lends itself to an immersive view, and this eyepiece seems to have a much wider field than it does because the top lens is such a large percentage of the diameter of the eyepiece.

You will enjoy the 27mm Panoptic, which has very close to the same true field as the 22mm Nagler. It's a logical step down in power from the 17.3mm Delos, too.

The 12mm T4 Nagler, by the way, has been discontinued by TeleVue.
The 22mm, however, remains one of their best sellers.

[dpastern]

I haven't played too much with the eye cup on my 12mm Don, do you recommend 2 or 3 clicks as a starting point to see if it perhaps mitigates some of the issues I'm experiencing?

I'm not sure what you mean by "pupil-positioning washer", can you elaborate please?

ATM, I'm using a 6" dob, and it's generally too tall to sit and observe, and too low to stand and observe (right in between the 2 lol!). With my very bad back, it's making observing a pain in the you-know-what!!!

I didn't realise you were on the IIS forums Don! I've always found your insights on CN worthwhile reading!

Cheers,

Dave

[Don Pensack]

yes. 2 or 3 clicks.
The black washer comes with the T4 eyepieces and rests on the rubber eyecup to help position the eye.
Try a short stool for the dob to make it more comfortable.

[dpastern]

OK, will have a look (and play) with the 12mm. I'm hoping it fixes the kidney beaning issue for me. Other than that, the eyepiece is very sharp with lovely contrast.