Building permit for telescope dome

[bojan]

How did you guys do it? What are your experiences and solutions for this issue?

It seems in VIC building permit (especially in urbanized areas) is required for almost everything (decks, sheds, garages etc).

How the rotating dome residing on the observational deck is treated from builder's point of view?
Is there a difference between DIY and Sirius dome for example?

Any feedback is most welcome!

[Kunama]

In Vic you can build a Class 10a "Shed" without a permit if it is less than 10m2 in area, not made of masonry, no more than 2.4m high if within 1.2m of boundary or no more than 3m high if more than 1.2m from boundary, cost less than $10k and is not attached to another structure or forward of the normal building line. Any plumbing including gutters downpipes etc must be installed by a qualified person and if the cost of such is more than $750, it must be certified.

[Atmos]

Sheds for farming related purposes also don’t need a permit as I understand it.

[Merlin66]

Bojan,
Is the observing deck you mention elevated or at ground level?
Permits are definitely required for elevated decks but don’t seem to be enforced for ground decks.

[bojan]

It is all subject to interpretation.. and hostile neighbours could make my life difficult if error was made.

Ballarat City council (http://www.ballarat.vic.gov.au/pbs/building/building-permits.aspx) (actuall VIC building regulator) says shed under 10m2 area and 2.4m high is OK, but what if shed is not on the concrete slab, but on the deck instead? how the height/distance from boundary is determined for spherical structure (geo-dome in my case), and how it is measured on sloped terrain?

[bojan]

It has to be elevated (50cm or so).
Is it still a deck if it only supports spherical geo-dome?

What is the definition of deck anyway?

[Imme]

3 months building the dome, countless hours installing the gear, opening night is coming.....and then there's a knock on the door from a Council Officer telling you to pull it down.....I'd call the Council to discuss.
Advice from members is one thing....a Council regs are a whole other matter!

I work for a certain unnamed Council and yes, I can assure you we have access to very high resolution satellite photos that can be easily superimposed over photo's from 12 months ago......you have no idea how easy it is for planning people to identify a new 'hidden' shed in your backyard.

Call the Council....better safe than sorry

[bojan]

Yes, I absolutely intend to call them and discuss the issue with them.
I already contact them via email and website, I also contact two builder surveyors.
I only wanted be prepared by knowing what were the other people experiences.

[JA]

Hello Bojan,

Of course it will be best when confirmed by the relevant authority, but I feel it is reasonable to conclude that:

The applicable area would be at its maximum horizontal diameter
The distance to the boundary will be from the closest point of your structure (i.e: at the max horizontal diameter)
The maximum height is based on natural ground level


You could possibly also move further from the boundary and increase to 3m (as per Matt's post [Hello Matt]), subject to approval. Consult with the authority and do everything you can to keep the design and position such that it does not require further approval or certification.

Best
JA

[bojan]

It's most probably Nearmap.com, not satellites.. they are using drones and planes to obtain high resolution photographs.

I was using this site before they started to charge even for a short peak....

[Imme]

Nearmap it is Bojan....brain fart by saying satellites.....I meant aerial photo

[bojan]

Jon,
As you work for council... could you advise would it be the better approach to contact council first or to talk with Building Surveyors (I am guessing they are businesses... so it may cost just to talk to them) ?

(Actually you already said "talk to council")

[Imme]

Definitely go to Council first (I would)
....at least that way you can get a clear direction on what is required, if anything.

[bojan]

Excellent, thank you :thumbsup:

[doppler]

I am curious on what building code a homemade moving dome would come under, I couldn't find any building specs/standards for a roll of roof structure.

[bojan]

Shed?

[Merlin66]

Yes, an unoccupied Shed is the nearest structure type.
That’s what was used for an observatory- rotating Octodome in Bundoora.

[Imme]

This one was Council approved as a "Shed"

https://youtu.be/IfTshNIecfI

......and there were plenty of engineers involved!

[doppler]

You would think that it would be quite a task trying to get a cyclone rating on a roll of roof structure in northern Australia if you had to have council approval. I guess you could get the shed approved then modify the movable roof part after.

[bojan]

According to Ballarat Building Permits website (http://www.ballarat.vic.gov.au/pbs/building/building-permits.aspx), permit is required for:



All decks and landings



All garages, sheds and carports



However, no permit is required for:


Garden Sheds


Construction of a steel or timber garden shed at the backyard of a dwelling, which has a floor area less than 10m² and is less than 3m in height, or less than 2.4m in height when within 1m of a boundary.

So, theoretically, if my 3m-diameter geo-dome (placed on 3.3 x 3.3m deck, 0.5m high) is declared as single building - garden shed, permit is not required.


However, if it is regarded as 3.3x3.3m deck with removable dome over it, then permit is required (for deck at least, and dome may be a problem because it is not a standard building).



I am very keen to find out what council will say...

[glend]

The answer seems to be to build a ROR Obs that fits the dimensions to avoid approval. That is pretty much what I did. Peak of my skillion roof height is 3m and its well away from the boundary fence, as the roof track is in that direction.
That 10m2 is plenty of room, mine is less than that. My ROR Obs has survived sustained 115kmhr winds during the April 2016 East Coast Low storm that sat on us here for four days; the important design consideration is good wall and corner bracing, use steel tracks and make some track locks, and obviously good tie down anchors for the roof.
If it looks like a simple skillion roof shed then no one is going to make a fuss.

[Imme]

I hate to say it .....but, knowing what Councils can be like they would want the deck approved via a building permit......but also probably up the engineering on it to allow for the weight of the structure and associated wind loadings it may cause.

Anything 'non standard' would need certification I think. My ob's is pretty large so probably a bit different to a garden shed variety but I heard the horror story the previous owner had trying to get it approved.....apparently even the wheels the roof rolls on needed some engineering approval/drawings done!

[bojan]

I was planning to use 8 steel square piers (100x100mm, 50cm high above ground level) to support both dome (via rubber wheels) and deck (recycled plastic).
Dome itself will have 2.5m diameter galvanized pipe (ø76mm) as a base, and I calculated it shouldn't roll over when exposed to 80km/h wind without any additional anchoring (and they will be in place). So... I hope for the best.

[Wilso]

I hate to tell you but Jon is right, anything non standard requires engineering calculations and design specifications other wise they will make you pull it down. If you go ahead without these you run the gauntlet.
Councils take hi res photos and run through software so that anything different will get picked up.
Good luck!

[ChrisM]

Bojan,

In an effort to not have to submit engineering calculations, I also wanted to avoid needed a building permit, so asked the council first whether I would need a planning permit. Due to size of property, copious screening trees and projected cost, they said I didn't need one, but would need to engage a building surveyor to assess whether I needed a building permit.

I ended up speaking to four separate building surveyors before I got the answer I was looking for: that I didn't need a permit if certain conditions were met (those that Matt listed in I think the second reply on this thread), plus being able to call the structure a shed (which I course I could).

So - I was left to my own devices to build a circular observatory with geodesic dome. The lesson here was that the rules were being applied very differently - depending who you spoke to.

Chris

[bojan]

I was talking with council last Friday.. and yes, this is basically true.
My obs will be 3m in diameter, 3m high, 1.5 meters away from boundary, wooded frame, filled in with styrofoam and reinforced with acrylic layer.. so no need for permit.
However, the guy from Council advised me to ask for permit anyway, in case I decide to sell the property later (which most probably I won't - it will be my last residence...
The initial plan was to put it in corner on the highest point of the property, but because of limitation on height, I decided to locate it closer to the middle... still OK for access to the sky.

[The_bluester]

Another point to discuss with them. In our (Rural) situation, advice from our council was that provided it was 100M away from the property boundary to the nearest Vicroads road we would not require a planning permit for a shed however a building permit is still required. There has to be some benefit to having been rezoned from Rural Living to Farming Zone (Despite the property already being less than half of the smallest allowed subdivision in FZ and absolutely not viable as a farm, unless perhaps I convert it over to 40 acres of marijuana or some similar cash crop!)

Sooner or later I still plan to build a ROR obs and I reckon I will have to rejoin the ASV at the time (I should anyway) to hopefully be able to scout out a member who is appropriately licensed to issue building permits. That way at least I would not spend so much time trying to explain the concept of why I want the roof to roll off to someone who has no knowledge of astronomy.

[baileys2611]

There's no permit required for using an 'appliance' on the property.

Appliance is loosely defined, but I succeeded in using an argument that anything which is not permanent (has no footings) and does not have amenities running to it, but which uses electricity through an extension chord running from the house can be called an appliance .

;)