Windows 10 a warning.

[acropolite]

Microsoft's worst ever OS has done a number on my laptop.

After booting I ran some software to program a security system as I have done several times before.

I plugged in my serial to USB adapter, detection as as expected. The software however couldn't see the device despite having the correct port set and the Coms adapter being visible in the device manager.

Simple enough, I closed the software and elected to reboot.

At this stage nothing had crashed and there were no abnormal messages. On shutdown win 10 decided that there must be a problem and that it would fix the problem, no choice, the OS simply blundered ahead, apparently scanning and correcting non existent problems.

End result was that the "fix" resulted in scrambling all the user data on the HDD as well as stuffing the master boot record. As the install was an upgrade it was impossible to recover using any of the usual techniques. I finally checked the HDD in a dock with the intention of retrieving what little data there was only to find that there were thousands of cross linked check files.

Moral of the story, don't trust win 10, back up everything of importance and don't rely on windows recovery, luckily I have backups of everything of importance as well as a cloned HDD of the pre upgrade HDD.

FWIW system restore is turned off by default in win 10.

Nice one Microsoft......:mad2::tasdevil:

[xstream]

Hey Phil, you need to come over to the dark side mate.
Get a Mac! :P :lol::lol:

Hope you and Liz are doing well :)

[DarkArts]

Ah, my little Paduan, you are merely edging into the shadow. When you are ready for true darkness, migrate to Linux. :wink2: :scared:

My sympathies on the M$ b/s. I left that cr*p behind a decade ago. I still have limited instances of older Windows around, but nicely corralled inside virtual machines, where the damage it can do is strictly contained.

[acropolite]

I already have a Linux mint distro downloaded and ready for my spare machine. :evil:

@John, we are doing well but busy. I'll give you a call sometime and chew the fat...

[DarkArts]

Cool! Cinnamon is the best desktop, IMHO. Here's a tip, though: download/activate Apparmor (it's off by default in Mint, but on by default in Ubuntu).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkR_yfEVEAE2TTW.jpg

[leon]

Know what you are saying Phil, I bought Alice a new Lap Top for Christmas, as her XP one was slow and getting on a bit.
She hates it.
I rebuilt her XP laptop with a fresh install and it is working great, I have Win 8.1 which is fine for what i do, But i will never install Win 10 on my Desk Top.
Nice to hear you and Liz are well, I still remember that game of pool we and John and Anna had at your place. :) it was a good night

Leon :thumbsup:

[xstream]

Sh!te! That pic. was quite a few years ago, I think we've all aged a bit since then. :lol: :lol:

[LaughingBeagles]

We have a mix of Win, Mac and Linux flavour distros.

With Windows (probably not helpful after the fact) it's always a good idea to have two partitions at least - one for your OS the other for data. If possible, I split them via HDD (SDD).

That way, if it all goes pear shaped, my data is still ok.

[spiezzy]

I totally agree with John you can not resist the dark side of the force I booted out Windows 4 years ago and have not looked back Macs every where iMac 24" main desktop for home office ,Mac Book Pro which I am typing on now, iMac 20" in the Observatory running every thing ,G11 ,Gem2 , PHD Guiding ,ASI1600MC ,Sbig STI guide camera , Nebulosity 4 , Skysafari pro and all in harmony have not had a issue for well 4 years .
cheers Pete :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[doppler]

My windows 7 (installed in 2011) is still running like a fresh install, but I did turn off auto updates on everything. Updates seemed to stuff up lots of things on my previous computer and slow it down each time as well.

[AstralTraveller]

I do the same under Linux. I have /home on a separate partition (plus a small partition for /boot/efi) so I can do clean installs without touching the data or (if necessary) the configuration files. I've never had Linux fall on its face and need a clean install but I do tend to lag behind the current version and sometimes a clean install is easier than doing three or four upgrades.

I'm running Mint with the Mate desktop but perhaps I ought to revisit Cinnamon - it appears to have improved since the last time I played with it. I run Win 7 in Virtual Box and I have to admit it has been very stable but having that .vdi file on my NAS is a comforting feeling.

[billdan]

From what I have read, Win 10 will be the last install-able operating system.

After this the OS will be on the cloud and a monthly/yearly fee to use. Like Adobe CC and MS-Office.

[rcheshire]

Bad memories of Win 10. And after a year of haggling my other half is now happily using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. Joy of joys. Free at last...

[Nikolas]

Watch people move away from this model in droves

[leon]

Even today we are having grief, it is the most useless piece of crap. :mad2:

Why not stay with something that isn't broken rather than fix it.:shrug:

Wouldn't it be nice to have a choice, rather than forced compliance with a program that is full of flaws.

Just my two cents worth.:)

Leon:thumbsup:

PS, yes I did buy it, I thought it would be good for Alice to learn and advance, but it has proven otherwise.:sadeyes::sadeyes:

[doppler]

Everything seems to be heading for subscription only availability. The next step will be that new computers will not be backward compatible with older operating systems so you will be forced into subscription services. I am thinking about getting a spare barebones desktop and storing that for a later rebuild so I can always use my existing non subscription software.

[Nikolas]

There is always a way around this.

[pjphilli]

Hi

I have always used a Windows operating system and am currently persevering (if you can call it that) with Win 10.
I notice through this thread that some have changed over to Linux.
How successful is Linux in running Windows software? Lots of info on the net but also a lot of ifs and buts.

Cheers Peter

[leon]

Rick that is the way to go, I love my desktop and i run Win 8.1.
That is where i will stay and if all fails i will just get my cloned copy of the HD and start afresh.

Leon

[doppler]

I have a windows8 laptop that I use for astro only (no internet surfing), I turned of auto updates when I got it 6 mths ago, now there are 350 odd updates waiting to be downloaded. Everything works as it should so I am not going to risk a bad update.

[AstralTraveller]

Peter,

For most (all?) common tasks Linux has quite good alternatives to or versions of Windows programs (eg browsers, email, office, drawing, CAD, skype and some astro programs).

To run Windows programs under Linux I believe WINE is the way to go. I've used it for some simple apps but in general I don't like it. It's probably better than I give it credit for but I just haven't persisted.

I use a program called VirtualBox to run Windows 7 and find it quite successful. I don't know how later versions of Win work except that the Windows upgrade tool complained about working in a virtual machine; that was a while ago and I forget the details. At the moment I use Windows to run Occult and Occultwatcher (for asteroid occultation work) as they need .NET and my wife uses Word for Office when she is collaborating with someone on a document that has lots of formatting because the compatibility of Office and LibreOffice isn't perfect. What Windows programs are you concerned about?

[el_draco]

Wowser.... that's not funny on any level.

[DarkArts]

WINE compatibility varies from program to program - "gold" rated (Edit: it seems there's Platinum grade now, too) programs are good and everything else has an issue (or more). You can check that out at the WINEHQ website (https://www.winehq.org).

WINE will mess with Linux's security architecture, though, and running windows programs in WINE opens up the possibility of Windows malware.

I prefer VirtualBox (but there's also KVM, VMware and others) to run Windows in a virtual machine. Programs run pretty fast (if you allocate enough CPUs and RAM) and you get the extremely valuable features that you can save the machine state, reset it, revert it, fork it, or clone it, plus with shared drives you can operate on files stored natively in Linux. One thing you don't get in a VM, though, is accelerated graphics, at least not with any stability.

I actually prefer most Linux programs to Windows variants, but there are some things I can't get on Linux (yet) like AutoStakkert2 for instance. Whereas I can and do use Libreoffice for all my home and personal document needs, I still occasionally proof a document in Word if I have to send it to a business where formatting is important ... sometimes there's a slight difference in font kerning or the size of a bullet point that will throw off tab alignment or pagination, though it's getting better. Libreoffice can open and save .doc and .docx files pretty well.

Updates and security on Linux are miles ahead of Windows. Miles! Though some distros are better than others.

What's a distro, I hear you ask? Very simply, Linux is a kernel (maintained by Linus Torvalds, a few other leading lights and many other talented teams and individual coders) plus a bunch of modules, libraries and utilities, and then a bundle of applications. The number of individual projects, small and large, contributing to Linux numbers in the thousands. It would be extremely difficult to collect ALL of them together. Plus, not all versions of programs are compatible with all kernels and libraries or even hardware. Take a project like Libreoffice - they code, check, compile and test in a handful of environments, then they make the source code available for anyone to use (and that particular project also makes binary executables available if you want to go that way).

A distro is a collection of software (including at least one kernel version and at least a minimum set of everything else) that is put together by a team, tested and distributed/released. Examples are Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, CentOS, Mint, Arch, Gentoo, Mandriva, Bohdi, etc. etc. etc. There are a LOT of distros and different "spins" of those distros, and upgrades, and third party add-ons, and ... Using the Libreoffice example, the distro maintainers will take the source code and compile it against the libraries they've selected then test it with their kernel version(s). They'll do the same for hundreds of applications and utilities and, usually, several kernel versions. If they pick libraries and a kernel that are too old, newer apps might refuse to compile or load. If they pick libraries that are too new, older applications might break. It's a balancing act. They also make decisions about how well maintained and/or secure an application might be and whether it's the best fit for they're distro. When they've compiled and tested the lot, they'll put the main selection together in downloadable form (e.g. an ISO) and may (probably will) have some other less popular apps in online repositories (repos) that you can install from. Those repos are how you get updates as well. And you can add third party repos as well, if you want more apps, but then you'll need to be careful managing some compatibility yourself. (Most distros use install/update tools with automated dependency checking, so much of the work is done for you). I've had up to 9 add-on repos active but that did take a bit of juggling. Mostly you'll have one or two repos that are automatically set up during distro installation and maybe one third party add-on (like VirtualBox).

Good repo management (which is the default and to be expected in Linux) means all your updates are seamless - you'll get a pop-up/indicator that updates are available, and you click (and optionally enter a password) and they download and install ... about 20 times faster than Windows and usually with no re-booting. There'll be a reboot required if you update the kernel but some enterprise-grade Linux distros have even got around that problem with "live-splicing" of running kernels. I'm hoping those features will trickle down to regular distros in due course.

Some distros are better maintained than others. When it comes time to choose one, include in your assessment the frequency and quality of updates (and the pre-release testing). Sticking with free (as in beer) software, if you want "bleeding edge" and the latest versions, you might go with Fedora. If you want stability, maybe Debian (stable) or CentOS. A nice desktop and the closest to "works out of the box" might be Mint. The most customisable might be Gentoo. Of course, there'll be a million alternative opinions on that :). "Spins" are based on a distro with a different collection of applications, often specialised for a purpose, like gaming, video editing, software development and so on. You can still customise further, but most of the work is done for you by the spin creator.

Another thing to get used to is choice of desktop environment (and the vast array of add-ons and theming possible). There are at least 7 major desktops I know of, and I've used 5 or so at one time or another. Windows only has the one desktop, so it's an alien concept for most people. My favourite is Cinnamon, but MATE, KDE and XFCE are pretty good, IMHO. Gnome Shell and Unity are popular but not on my personal favourites list. Some distros only offer one default desktop, but you can (almost) always install an alternative desktop manually - it'll be in their repo somewhere. Some distros offer a choice of desktop at download or at install time. From memory, Fedora and Ubuntu have the most desktops to choose from (that are in the default repos or in the ISO).

I changed to Linux a decade a go. Sure, there was a learning curve - though it's far less steep these days - but it was absolutely worth it and I've NEVER regretted making the change. I can liken escaping Windows to getting out of a bad marriage. Is it hard at first? Maybe, probably. Is it worth it? Too bloody right it is! :thumbsup:

Linux is not perfect, but I absolutely love it. :love:

Oh, and by the way, do you know where you'll find Linux? Well, about half the world's data centres and internet infrastructure, most embedded devices, about 95% of the world's supercomputers, autonomous vehicles, the military, the NSA, the ISS, and on about 2% of (the world's smartest people's) desktops. ;)

[leon]

Rick, if it is doing the job you want don't install anything, it will wreck it.

Leon

[Tandum]

Phil, it has the old school win7 backup in control panel. You could have made an image there.

Even more insidious. My machine had been auto updated to win 10 and all was great. I scored a faster empty box so put win 10 in it but MYOB wouldn't install, registry access denied. That same version of MYOB was still running on my original box. The original box was an upgrade. Running Win7 on the faster box thanks.

[Tandum]

What's your IP ? :lol:

[doppler]

It varies on what country I pick with my VPN ?

[Tandum]

No it doesn't. Even more cause for alarm :)

[acropolite]

I do have a backup on stick, haven't tried to reload it yet as I had no mechanism to restore the OS without a bootable W10 installation.

The recovery partition was still intact, win10 had basically stuffed it's own partition and boot files by fixing errors that weren't there. I reloaded w8 from the recovery partition and reloaded W10 in a fraction of the time that I had spent on trying to recover the w10 installation.

Nothing I tried would bring the OS back to life, as I said, all the user directories and files had been cross linked and renamed as .chk files. The laptop is now back and running all I have to do is reload my applications, everything important I had backups of...

[pjphilli]

Thanks David and DarkArts - You have given me lots to think about.
I will play around with Linux on my spare PC and get to know its possibilities.
Cheers Peter

[DarkArts]

No worries. I added a bit more for you to read (above).

Just for completeness, if you're a serious gamer, you'll still probably want Windows. But don't worry, you can have both. How? Dual boot! :)

[lazjen]

Just to add to the Linux stuff:

Ubuntu or distros like it are quite well supported by many of the astro applications around, probably better than the Fedora variants. Personally I use neither (Gentoo), but that's because I generally know what I'm doing (or fake it good enough :) ).

For the desktop, I've gone through a number of choices over the years - I've now settled on KDE/plasma as it seems to be well supported and has a clean interface (to me).

An easy way to dual boot and avoid a lot of issues with Windows or EFI, etc, is to put the OSes on separate hard disks and just use the BIOS bootloader to switch as required. Often there's an F-key to bring up boot choices, so you can default to one of them for most use, then just select when you want to switch over.

[Tandum]

You need to Create a System Repair Disk to restore an image.
There is an option to do that in the Win7 backup/restore widget in control panel.
Boot from the disk and restore from the image.

[skysurfer]

Windows 10 had the weird behavior that it updates the OS without warning. And then is costs an hour to 'Preparing Windows...'.
Luckily I run Win10 only in a VirtualBox VM on both my Macbook Pro and a Ubuntu 16.04 computer, so I don't have to wait.
I only use Win10 for running Deepskystacker and for my work (customers use Windows).