View Full Version here: : Cloning my Hard Drive
Good Morning to all,
Seeing the disaster i had with my PC, which however is now performing very well, I intend to Clone the Hard Drive.
Could anyone please suggest a good cloning tool/software. :shrug:
Thank You in Advance. :)
Leon :thumbsup:
multiweb
15-10-2016, 08:09 AM
Hi Leon, Acronis true image is very good. You have to realise that cloning or imaging a drive is different from backing up files.
Cloning will restore the disk signature, the MBR and any partitions from drive to drive. So you can take a cloned drive, replace it in your machine and boot. Your OS settings, everything is identical. It is the fastest and safest way to back up your data and OS.
I remember Acronis from the olden days. Good memories.
But no current knowledge about cloning Windows.
I felt I should explain why I'm not going to chip in on this new thread.
I'm not being obnoxious. I just don't know an answer :D
Thanks indeed, yes Marc i do realise what you are saying, I want to do this so I don't have to go through what just happened to my PC.
Although I got it right and it is running very well I just need some decent back up in case it dies in the future.
I did actually look at that product, but really didn't know much about it hence the question.
Leon
Thank you
multiweb
15-10-2016, 09:08 AM
Hi leon, there are two types of situations
1_ one day your computer doesn't start at all.
2_ you've lost or deleted some files or photos by mistake or they are corrupted.
#2 happens but it's not a show stopper. Easily remedied by duplicating files on external drives or burn them on bluray disks.
#1 is the killer. In this case what matters most is how fast you can get back to a working computer in the exact same state (or close) as it was just before it crashed.
If you have a clone or image you can get back in business from a new empty unformatted drive in around 15-20min. The alternative is reinstalling all of your operating system then programs one by one then your files. That can take days.
The routine I use with acronis is to back up my boot drive (and others) every two weeks or when I feel the change warrants a backup. The longer you wait the bigger the difference.
The first backup is called a seed. It's a full back up. It can take 1h or more. The subsequent backups are called differential backups and they are small files that take only 5 or 10min to do. They contain the difference between the full backup and what your PC state is at when you do the differential back up.
To restore your machine you need 1xfull backup + 1xlatest differential backup you've done, and that's all.
The other system is called incremental backup. It is used because it can be faster. It saves small files again from the time you've done a full backup but each subsequent incremental back up depends on the previous incremental backup. So to restore your machine you need the full back up, then all the incremental backups you've done to get your PC back. If one of the incremental backups is corrupted in the chain of files then you're stuck again as they all rely on each other.
This is why I recommend differential backups. Only two points of failure. The seed and your latest differential backup.
When you do backups validate them. There is nothing worse than trying to restore your PC and be prompted that your backup is corrupted.
Hope this heps.
rally
15-10-2016, 09:52 AM
Marc, as a system - differential and incremental backing up makes sense, but I think for Leon, Cloning is a good way to go.
Its a very simple thing to do and its even simpler to get back up and running.
Ghosting is also a good idea.
It doesnt take long and he will always be able to start from scratch
Nothing worse than getting all your incremental backup versions mixed up
At some point in the future you always need to do a new seed and in the event of a total failure you often dont have your tools or anything to start with (the PC is down) - so getting started can be a Catch22, although that can be the case with anything - but swapping out a cloned HDD should mean you are up and running in the time it takes to install the replacement hard drive.
Leon, Id buy yourself one of the external HDD drive adapters I put the link in your previous thread.
If you can try and buy the identical drive that is already in your PC, it actually isnt critical, but it does make life easier.
This way you just plug in a new OEM hard drive straight out of the packet, clone it and put it back in its packet (appropriately labelled of course)
Maybe have two of them and alternate backups every so often.
Getting a Time Capsule or some other sort of automated file backup system might also be worthwhile - just select all the data or folders you want to backup
The disadvantage is that if you rely on all the applications saving files to their favourite places - then you have data scattered all over the place, whereas if you name a new folder Data and then created some subfolders for each type of Data file you are likely to use and then backing up Data is simply a case of saving "Data" with subfolders.
But it requires diligence to and a few changes to default file settings to make this work best.
Happy to lisetn to other peoples ideas but this keeps it (relatively) simple, especially the recovery side of things.
Rally
PS Stating the obvious here :
But . . . a caveat and Warning anyway
Cloning, copies a drives entire disc contents (effectively sector by sector) to another drive - if you accidentally mix up the source and destination then you will destroy your data drive forever !
Be very slow and very careful when selecting which drive is which in the software - keep you finger off the keyboard until you are sure you know what you are doing !!!
In this regard cloning is not fool proof !
multiweb
15-10-2016, 10:00 AM
Agreed.
I was more thinking on the line that my PC software is always updated and changing so need to keep up with backups. Also forgot to mention that eventually you have to make a new seed which I do probably every 3 months or so.
In Leon's case, if the PC doesn't change dramatically you're right. A clone is the way to go.
Leon, I second the external base. You need to be in a position to plug your backup in your PC and boot from a CD in most cases or USB stick to restore a drive. I skipped that bit and took it for granted as I do it all the time.
Well you guys are really on the ball, I do understand the workings of computers and file back up etc, but that is probably as far as it goes.
I just need a simple peace of mind back up, so if the PC goes belly up for any reason it can still have all my filers and programs and everything that makes a PC work.
So I reckon as suggested a simple clone of the hard Drive is what would work for me.
This machine that i use, is pretty much dedicated to Photography with a few Photo programs and all my 140,00 images :eyepop::lol:, and an occasional look at IIS, so as you can see it just needs to be simple so that i can get back to Photography, as this is what i do.
I appreciate your responses and your suggestions, thank you very much.:thumbsup:
Leon :thumbsup:
PS I do have all these photos and general files backed to an external HD already so if it died they would not be lost.
multiweb
15-10-2016, 01:53 PM
Yes. You make an exact copy of your HD then keep it as a spare. In case of failure you swap the drives. Same disc capacity or slightly bigger to hold the partitions, boot and others if needed.
What I proposed previously was a little more involved and probably an overkill. It allows to mirror multiple partitions and compress them on a smaller capacity backup drive.
Exfso
15-10-2016, 02:39 PM
Macrium reflect have both a free and paid version. The free version works very well.
Here is a youtube tutorial which I believe is quite informative..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0PyZIqecII
w0mbat
16-10-2016, 10:17 AM
Also check out XXClone and Clonezilla. I can vouch for XXClone saving me when a hard drive died. Installed the clone drive and running again in ten minutes.
Both have free versions.
Ian
Thank You again for your constant support and suggestions.
Leon
hamiland
16-10-2016, 07:49 PM
Just in case you are unaware, Western Digital and Seagate have free copies of Acronis available to download, the only requirement is that you have one of their drives installed on launch.
Thanks Anders, I was not aware of that.
Leon
OICURMT
16-10-2016, 09:00 PM
Only way to ensure an exact state duplicate is to use RAID0.
Only way to ensure an exact state duplicate is to use RAID0.?
Not quite sure what you mean by RAIDO ?
Thanks, Leon
OICURMT
17-10-2016, 08:22 AM
Running dual hard drives in parallel which automatically sync to one another in real-time.
It's a redundancy method, not a backup, most often used for NAS (Network attached storage).
Not often you would use RAID on a desktop, but I have in the past when I was doing numerical modelling and needed the redundancy in order to make sure all my generated data did not get lost (days of computational simulation).
OIC!
pmrid
17-10-2016, 11:13 AM
Wiring harness? Is there some special piece of kit for making a clone HD or do you install the target drive in your PC as a second drive?
peter
multiweb
17-10-2016, 11:37 AM
Do you mean RAID1 which is mirrored? RAID0 is an old standard which used to be striped volumes spread over two separate HDs. No redundancy as if one HD failed you lost the lot.
OICURMT
17-10-2016, 04:38 PM
You are correct, I meant RAID1.
Don't know where my head was at... :shrug:
I'm currently running two sets of RAID1 on my NAS, with a dock that clones each set.
Anders, I tried what you said about getting a free download of Acronis, however that did not work.
I have a seagate 2T hard drive in the PC and it asked for the serial number of that Hard Drive which I gave, so it could look up the Firmware, but it then told me that the number supplied was incorrect, which was not the case. :shrug:
Never mind i will download something later of just get a Inatech Clone Docking set-up to do the job.
Thanks for the suggestion.:)
Leon :thumbsup:
OICURMT
17-10-2016, 10:21 PM
where did you get the SN off of?
Photo would help.
hamiland
17-10-2016, 10:37 PM
Hi Leon,
You don't need a serial number to download, I didn't mention however that Seagate call their distribution of acronis discwizard, sorry should have mentioned that when I recommended it.
multiweb
18-10-2016, 07:32 AM
Hi Leon, your S/N is printed on a sticker on your HD. Buy a new version of Acronis. It retails around $80 I think, then stick with it. Don't buy an OEM cut down version. 2015 is fine, I never updated to 2106. I don't like the cloud integration that they are pushing trhough heavily now.
Got the serial no off the HD, took it out of PC ;)
Leon :thumbsup:
Now i do have a final question on this Cloning subject.
It is stated that when one clones a H/D with a good docking station one gets an exact copy of the drive they are copying, correct:question:
If this is the case then all my photo files, text files, settings, operating system files and any other thing that makes the initial H/D work is copied so that i could actually swap drives and all would be the same, correct :question:
So are all my installed programs copied :question:
What happens to the virus protection loaded, is it copied and just sits there until i happen to use the copied Drive :question:
Dose the PC start up as it dose now with the copied H/D :question:
Also if i use a good cloning dock and there are some good ones out there why would i need to buy Acronis or any other software :question:
So what I am asking is this, dose a cloned H/D drive make an exact workable copy of the drive, yes or no :question:
Thank you all for your continued support on this subject.:thumbsup:
Leon :thumbsup:
Um, probably not, technically.
Thats a lot of questions for one final question.
When you physically swap hardware such as a hard drive the computer BIOS will usually recognise there is a change and pause when you turn it back on the first time for you to confirm the change is OK, once you do that with a cloned drive then Yes it will work as if nothing had changed. All your viruses will be fully operational again too ! All updates since your last backup will be lost of course. Ghosting drives doesn't protect you from yourself, all your bad habits will still be there whereas re-installing the OS gives you a clean slate. The OS is a waste backing up IMHO.
multiweb
18-10-2016, 04:01 PM
:shrug: That's the whole point of the exercise. So you don't have to worry about reinstalling your OS and programs. Or am I missing something.
Sil what you are telling me one might as well forget about cloning a H/D and just back up all ones files to an external drive wipe the drive and reinstall everything if things go belly up, programs and all other stuff. :shrug:
I really appreciate all the answers and suggestions, but guys this technical stuff is not what I'm after, I just need a yes or no answer.
Dose cloning a drive make an exact copy that can be replaced with a faulty drive, ending up with a PC like one had before it died, ya or na :question:
Leon :thumbsup:
multiweb
18-10-2016, 04:08 PM
Yes. An identical image.
Yes. All of the above.
Yes. All your programs, settings, licenses, everything.
Your anti-virus is just another program. It'll be the same and still up to date. It won't mind that the hardware has changed and still work as expected.
Yes. In the same way. If you have multiple drives in the PC, it might be worth checking the BIOS to make sure you boot from the new drive, but usually it will pick it up automatically. Not an issue if you have only one HD in the PC.
You can get Acronis or any other software that you are comfortable with. The dock is just so you can read your drive from your PC. Not a cloning accesory. The program is what will make a clone of your drive onto the drive plugged into the dock.
Yes. Absolutely. You get an identical drive that you can swap with the one in your PC.
As an exercise, when you've done your clone, take your drive out then boot from the copy. See if it works. This way you will be sure. If not put the old drive back, boot and image again.
multiweb
18-10-2016, 04:09 PM
Yes. That's the whole point of cloning. :)
Excellent Marc, thank you indeed.
Leon
Marc or anyone for that matter please have a have a look at this and tell me what you think
https://www.jaycar.com.au/dual-2-5-3-5-sata-hdd-docking-station-usb-3-0/p/XC4697
Leon
multiweb
18-10-2016, 06:41 PM
Perfect.
Hi Marc i was considering this software. :question:
https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hdm-professional/
chosen from this group of the best.
http://www.toptenreviews.com/software/utilities/best-disk-imaging- (http://www.toptenreviews.com/software/utilities/best-disk-imaging-software/)
software/ (http://www.toptenreviews.com/software/utilities/best-disk-imaging-software/)
so what would your thoughts be. :question:
Thanks Leon :thumbsup:
Yes, if you want a fast stable secure computer.
Re-read my response. Its a YES BUT Not on the first boot. Which answering your question as asked is technically No.
Typically when drives fail they dont actually fail, its a corrupt OS from both infections and lots of files installed/uninstalled over time. Ghosting a drive safely stores all those problems and transfers them to a new hard drive. Not my concern if you want that risk. I've got tons of "dead" hard drives from people this has happened to and not a single one has a physical drive problem, Once I do my analysis and stabilisation on the dives they work just fine, all my desktop computers are running at least one such drive.
multiweb
19-10-2016, 11:06 AM
What do you mean by "stabilisation"?
Sil you have lost me mate,
Leon
I'm not Marc but - Leon, Acronis is also listed in the test, and only marginally less well rated.
And you already know from IIS that there are people here who know the software and even vouch for it.
That also means a safety net in case you need support.
Sure, Paragon has its own support community on their website - but nobody here knows it, apparently.
I know the brand because of their excellent Mac software :D (But I don;t know their cloning software.)
With the rather special astro software you are running on your PC, it might come in handy to be using a cloning software others use as well.
The docking station is a nice touch, btw. If you ever want to keep the clone off site, the docking station makes it easy grab-n-go.
If you still have space in your PC you could also just put the additional drive in there.
What you really need is for your clone is
- software that copies the bits from one to the other hard drive - like Acronis or Paragon
- the hard drive
multiweb
19-10-2016, 12:42 PM
I haven't use Paragon. I have used Acronis since version 11.0 in 2007 so I have a lot of experience with it. I have done many bare metal restores with it and it has always worked flawlessly. My PC is about 7 years old now. I've had my C: drive fail 3 times (only 2 weeks ago the last time) over this period and my other 2 drives in the machine twice. So that's 7 drives over the life of the computer. Never lost any files.
As indicated I use differential backups, but I have cloned the C: drive on one occasion as well and swaped the clone in the machine and booted without a glitch.
So I'm not relying on online tests or blogs ranking different programs but I speak from personal experience over the past 10 years using the various versions of the software.
multiweb
19-10-2016, 12:55 PM
The programs installed on the drive are irrelevant. An image is just that. Not file related. It can also be a totally different operating system.
The docking station is a must. That's the only way to restore a blank drive in the PC. Putting a back up drive inside a PC defeats the purpose of having a back up as the drive will be powered everytime the machine is turned on. The purpose of a back up is to be stored off site so you've got it when you need it.
Marc, what would i do without your advice.
Thank you.
Leon
Annette, I did quickly go through these responses to my question and I have to admit I did by pass your response so that I could get to the last answer for my inquire. :rolleyes:
However i did go back and saw your response and i have to admit you make sense ;) in regard to choosing something that some hear on IIS can help with if it all goes wrong. :thumbsup:
Thank you, I will be taking your advice and go with Acronis. :thumbsup:
Thanks Heaps.:)
Leon :thumbsup:
Annette, well i did bugger that up :rolleyes: and was coxed into Paragon by a not named party.:sadeyes:
Well, i should have listened,:screwy: i tried Paragon and am now stuck with no program at all and $70.00 out of pocket. :sadeyes:
See i just should have listened to you. :)
Leon :thumbsup:
multiweb
19-10-2016, 07:25 PM
www.acronis.com/en-au/ (http://www.acronis.com/en-au/)
what do you mean by this, Leon?
Marc, just for my sake:
I had understood you also can use the Acronis clone seed to do incremental backups. Plus it'll allow you to rollback not only to the latest seed+backup but also to the seed+backup of, let's say, 1 month ago. (as long as there's backup space on the hard drive.. I assume there's a culling mechanism built in which deletes incremental backups older than x?)
?
(Reasoning:
If you restore from a pure clone, the installed software is meaningless, I agree, of course.
If however, you have a "real" backup which can be used as a backup = restoring only parts of it - then the installed software is affected.
A true backup enables you to do that. Hence you might find yourself in a situation where you want to do just that.
Restoring from a not-pure clone+backup can potentially impact program files. Especially if you decide not to restore the full thing, but only a part - like the user folder or something. Or you decide to only restore the system folder. Or or or or or or.
That's the lane I was thinking along when I wrote that astro software might be special when using a clone/backup software.)
Annette, I did some research and i found that Paragon was a good cloning tool.
However after paying my money and downloading the software it told me after accepting this that it was not comparable with my OS system.
So as we speak, I paid for software, it did not arrive on my PC and basically that is it.
I have sent emails to this company and have to admit they have answered
Leon
really? that's what you said?
I actually find the email text quite clear:
they ask for a screenshot of the DOwNLOAD attempt so they get the error message word-for-word and hopefully fix it on the back end.
because: the webserver probably should have seen your OS version and at least tried to "lure" you to the correct version -
either when purchasing it or when downloading it.
So the error message from the DOWNLOAD screenshot would be crucial to them to verify that
a) their server is performing as it should
or
b) their server needs improvement so that Leon from Australia can not make a mistake when purchasing/downloading the software for his particular OS.
...
And of course they need to know that you actually purchased the item in order to reimburse you. So the purchase confirmation is the first thing they ask for.
But the second thing they ask for is a screenshot of the technical error that you encountered, do you understand?
But I can understand your reaction and emotionally blurred perception - because I know how much time and energy you already put into the whole PC-failing event.
Breathe, Leon :) :)
I am surprised, if I might add...
you come across as such a friendly and polite guy here on the forums.
But when a stranger and non-native speaker is communicating with you to solve a problem you both have - you get really rude...
I'm sorry to mention this... but it really sticks out and I wanted to make sure you see it through my eyes, too.
If you were treating me that way when I try to help I would turn around and never help again.
Edit: in fact, I am now tempted to do just that... out of loyalty to the fellow support person named Nasyp.
Annette you are correct I was rude, and i will apoligise to this fellow and anyone else that i may have offended.
I did get angry over this situation and should have had more control over the situation.
I understand if you and others on IIS back away from this, I am truly sorry for my outburst.
Leon
I have a procedure I go through when data recovering hard drives. Some software methods do more damage to a drive , if the drive is developing physical faults. Some physical faults can actually be repaired (not always) but the process I go through at least stabilises some physical faults from spreading so the drive has the best chance of data recovery. So before attempting to ghost the drive or recovering direct from it I find it worth the time it takes to do this step. It also gives clients the option of taking the drive elsewhere to try other methods I can't do (like board swapping) if I fail (rare). This process also gives me a good indication if I'm dealing with a hardware problem or merely software fault for recovery so I choose appropriate recovery methods. I try to ensure I dont stress the drive much during recovery, most "dead drives" are more from faulty power supplies or human error and most people dont want the drive back after recovery so I run them through heavy formatting and benchmarking tests to see if they are performing at speed and I'm confident the drives are safe for use and I end up reusing them myself for projects. Only the ones that fail any single in any way get binned, which is very rare.
Sil I was not trying to shut you down, I just don't have that Computer knowledge that you speak of.
I had no idea what you were talking about, however i am sure it would make sense to others.
My PC needs are very simple and i am OK with that, my machine dose exactly what i need.
I know nothing about cloning and the like, hence the many questions.
You young people are born into technology, I pushed the first start button on a Computer when i was 56 and am learning every day, and now 10 years later at 66 I am reasonably good at it, but not as good as some.
Thank you however for your response. :)
Leon :thumbsup:
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