Best eyepiece design/fov etc for children?

[NTgazer]

Excuse the noob question but I managed to pick up a free scope from a council cleanup (ubiquitous 127mm short reflector with the built in correcter/barlow thingo) and am setting it up for my son who is 4 as he likes my big scope and thought it would be cool for him to have is own little scope. The mount is pretty rubbish so I may stiffen it up or build a basic dob type box for it, but anyway thats for another thread. The question is what design of eyepiece will offer good views for him, by that I mean as he is only 4 and doesn't have super fine motor control and co-ordination (especially when its pitch black - I told him not to touch the scope so he had his hands behind his back and the poor bugger was swaying like a drunk trying to look through it!) he is struggling to see anything through the cheapo 25mm plossl that I tried. I think as he is not able to hold his head in the right spot and is looking 'around' inside the eyepiece and possibly not dead straight so is getting those weird kidney bean type things. Are any different designs more forgiving for eye relief/placement than others, or should I look for a wider angle eyepiece maybe? I just want to keep him interested and happy while he learns how to look properly

[croweater]

One thing that may help is a step ladder or something for him to lean on/hold on to. For the last few years I have been using a ladder as a leaning post and though it may seem silly (when I don't need a ladder with my f6 newt) it is now used every time. It is lots easier to keep still at the eyepiece and really helps to reduce fatigue (eye and body). With a foot on a step or arms wrapped around the ladder also takes some weight and makes for much more comfortable observing. I wouldn't be without it now. Hope it helps Chris. Someone else hopefully can help you with eyepiece type as I haven't owned a lot over the years. Cheers, Richard :)

[doppler]

I have done a lot of school viewing nights and a ladder with hand grip is the best to keep the young ones steady and their hands of the telescope.
Mine was $69 at bunnings but KMART has similar for around $20. And the 25mm eyepiece is the best all rounder.

[mental4astro]

Hi Chris,

If you are to rebuild the mount into a dobbie style one, look into making it a table top design. The tube of the scope is short enough for it. It can be used on a table, chair, esky, tree stump, really just about anywhere. Will do a few things, make for a very stable mount, bring the scope to your son's height, and its pint size won't intimidate. The current scope my kids have is a little 114mm newt with a 500mm focal length on a table top mount - tubby thing that my kids find very easy to use. The pic below shows my son with their little scope.

Being only four, your son will also benefit from this table top design. It won't shake as much, especially if he makes a grab for it. Don't be afraid of him grabbing the scope, especially if it's "his". He'll quickly learn how to handle it. Much better than putting "NO" conditions around the scope. With novices, yes it is a good idea to have a no-hands policy, but with your own son/daughter, I'd say the opposite. They won't break it, and the experience will be a better one that will encourage them. Especially with focusing, they'll need to learn to adjust focus for their own eyes. This comes with time too.

In its current state, I'd suggest keeping the tripod as short as possible rather than fully extend its legs. Yes a real pain in the bum for mum and dad, but the scope will be more stable.

Eyepiece wise, I never thought I'd say this, but the good old Kellner 10mm is actually an easy eyepiece for higher magnification in a scope such as yours. For its focal length, the eye lens is big enough, eye relief is surprisingly good, and it certainly won't break the bank. Image quality is surprisingly VERY good for such a modest eyepiece. Kellner eyepieces will have the initial "K" on them. But for some reason I don't understand, many manufacturers call these eyepieces "Super" - not super plossl (which is also a marketing gimick), just plain old "super". But these are still Kellners and just fine for this purpose. Shorter focal length Kellners are also easier to look into than plossl eyepieces of the same focal length.

If your son maintains an interest in astronomy as he gets older, you can then look into a better scope and better eyepieces. Investing in better eyepieces for the modest little scope you have is not worth it. Patience is more important now, :lol: For now, a 25mm plossl and 10mm Kellner is plenty to show the Moon and planets and the brighter deep sky objects.

One trick I have to help little kids look into an eyepiece is quietly say to them "look into the little glass window", pointing to the eye lens of the eyepiece. As most little kiddies are not used to using just one eye to look into a little hole, it also helps to have them hold one eye closed with a hand as they look into the eyepiece with the other eye. They'll get the hang of it quickly. On outreach nights, a step ladder is one thing I also have not only for the kids to access the eyepiece, but for kids to grab the ladder instead of the scope. The ladder I have is similar in design as that posted by Rick, :thumbsup:

Chris, if you don't have one of these 10mm Kellner eyepieces, I have one I am happy to send you for the cost of postage. A 25mm and 10mm eyepiece will be plenty to get this little scope for your son up and running nicely. Let me know.

Alex.

[NTgazer]

thanks guys, and thanks Alex for that, you are very generous I would appreciate it very much, but at least let me give you something to put towards more sketching materials - your work is superb!

I do have a little step ladder actually, I hadn't thought of using that as I kept the tripod legs fully collapsed and rotated the tube around so that he was kind of looking upwards into the eyepiece a bit, I will try arranging it so he can use the step ladder. I totally agree about the letting him be hands on though, it was purely as the mount was so incredibly wobbly that the slightest touch had the image shaking uncontrollably! I had let him help set it up with me and he'd had a good play with it beforehand. Hands on is better in general, it works with his baby sister too - he can be very gentle when given a bit of trust, not so much with my Les Paul guitar that I sometimes let him 'play' though, it has a few dings - ah well it adds character to the wood haha I will always think of him when I see those marks!

[mental4astro]

Chris, I've sent you a PM.

Ah, yes. The dings in our precious gear we actually don't mind being there! :D I too have such little mementos on some of my stuff. And like you, it's a welcome reminder of my little ones :) If anyone else put those marks there, we'd take to them with a club... :tasdevil:

[NTgazer]

Thanks Alex, I have replied by PM, at least I think it was sent although I can't see it in my sent items. Let me know if you didn't get it and I'll try again
Cheers
Chris