Beat up old dome

[codemonkey]

Ok, I finally managed to convince my neighbours to sell their old, unused (installed two owners ago by a gentleman now deceased) Sirius dome.

I got it for a very low price, but the thing is in quite poor condition. I intend to get it cleaned up and either paint it or re gel-coat it.

It's got lichen all over it and wasp nests under the dome so it no longer rotates freely, but fingers crossed it's all functional after a good clean.

I plan to automate the thing, but it currently has no motors/controller etc.

Any advice for a new (old) dome owner?

[glend]

Just a suggestion that works on old fibreglass boats, pressure blast all the lichen and dirt off. Rough up the exterior gel coat and apply a two pack epoxy primer ( available from most boat supply stores like Whitworths (online). Wear a proper respirator. You can roll it on and tip it off with a brush. That will seal the exterior and prevent water getting to the glass. You can spray or roll on a topcoat. Or get a boat painter to come out and do it for you, but it can cost.
Have fun.;)

[codemonkey]

Awesome, thanks for the advice Glen, I think I'll do just that :)

[h0ughy]

i just used dishwashng liquid in copious quantities and a stiff and soft brush. dont use the high pressure washer or you will blast holes in it. i then used fibreglass polish to bring my dome up

[glend]

I did not mean that you should use a petrol powered pavement type pressure washer, the little electric ones used to wash cars will do. Obviously only use enough pressure to remove the lichen and dirt. The epoxy primer is only needed if the gel coat has cracked through or flaked off, if the gel coat is just uv damaged, just sand it to key the paint and put some paint on it.

[Peter Ward]

Humm...its not so bad..looks like mine :lol:

Seriously, it should scrub up fine.

I use a high pressure sprayer , then give my Obs a wash with auto-detergent and hot water. There are many marine polishing compounds on the market, which I'm sure you can get advice on which is best from your local boating store/supplier.

[g__day]

Strongly suggest you buy about 8 bottles of the spray on Exit Mould and a oodles of chuck wipes and a set of leather gardening gloves - works brilliantly for removing mould. I was gifted a dome that was covered in mould and gunk and about four hours work with hot water and that much exit mould fixed things brilliantly!

Secondly - the Max Dome kit works really well - suggest you will get most value from a backyard observatory with just the dome rotation kit (vs the slit open and close - which needs a new dome slit and motor. There is a long wait time on these kits and the instructions aren't well printed - so it worth while seeing one in operation and getting advise from someone who has retro fitted on recently - glad to give more feedback if that helps - did mine last year.

Next if your mount's rotation point isn't directly under the dome's rotation point - the East West offset parameter should have its sign (+/-) swapped for our hemisphere - the documentation is definitely wrong for our hemisphere.

Lastly the Mad Dome rotation software hub - the free version didn't work reliably - whereas the one build into MaximDl v5 worked fine - you need to plan what software will drive your Max Dome kit.

Once it all works well - and it eventually will - it gives you a great feeling of accomplishment - especially if your remote control everything from your house where its nice and warm!

[codemonkey]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I much appreciate it! :-)



Hopefully yours is in better condition, this one won't even rotate freely, hopefully just due to the large accumulation of wasp nests between the dome and the lip it rotates on.

I'm honestly not too fussed on cosmetics, I'm mostly interested in ensuring its longevity.



Thanks Matthew! I'm essentially planning on treating this as a remote obs, so I'll be wanting both shutter and rotation control. My wife is complaining about barely seeing me due to me always being up fiddling with my gear so I'm going to try and automate everything and get comms between the obs and the house (~350m away) so I can tinker with guiding etc from the living room.

I've contacted Sirius for a quote on the automation kit. Any idea how long the lead time is? They haven't mentioned that so far. Hopefully not too long, but then it'll be a while before I can get the deck/pad put in and this thing cleaned up and relocated anyway.

[g__day]

Lee,

I waited about 3 months - from memory the main hold up was sourcing the motors from Italy - then when they finally arrived they shipped them to Australia rather then flew them! Sirius have set order times each week or month - ask them when their next order goes in and place your order a few days before their order dates to minimise wait times.

How do you plan to get comms to the observatory if its 350 metres away from your house - that's a bit far to run cat6 cable without a repeater or two isn't it? Still once you have power and IP signal going to your observatory - and it all mounted up and tuned - you'll be amazed how much time you save!

Another pointer is a lot of gear may still require serial cables (focusers, some mounts, the Maxdome kit) etc. This means you have to consider either get an older PC or 1 or 2 PCI adapter boards that each have 2-4 serial connectors (e.g Sunnix), or get a really high quality USB2 to 4 port Serial hub - like the kind Peter Ward uses in his obs (NPort). The cheap ones are notiorously bad on geting the serial cable to work - their chipset isn't somehow completely reliable with signalling required.

I would from experience now suggest run say 4m USB3 cable from Astrolab PC to your pier - and place a powered 7 port USB3 / 2 hub on your pier - this makes cabling much simpler than trying to have 15 cables going from your gear back to your PC! I also run power to a 5 port surge protected board board which I sticky velcro to the pier - so all signal and mains power is available mide way up the pier.

Lastly a dehumidifer (Kogan), timer switches, and surge protection and a decent earth are all good ideas. I use an Online (not back up or stand-by) UPS and put serial surge protectors on all the serial cables (the kind petrol stations use to link their pumps to the cash registers). I run the mount of a Lab power supply and place both it and the UPS and other sensitive electronics in a plastic box - just to minimise the chance of rain hitting it whilst the dome is open in case I miss the start of a brief rain storm.

Good luck!

Matthew

[strongmanmike]

Well Lee, that doesn't look to dissimilar to how mine looked when I picked it up in late 2012 from someones backyard. Mine is circa 1996 and my approach when I got it was to... do absolutely no cleaning at all :lol: Mine rotates ok although it does have one slight sticking point that could play havoc with a motorised system?...I'm manual push to though :)

Personally when I ever get around to cleaning mine I recon good'ol warm soapy water and rinse off with a garden hose would be perfectly adequate :)

Of course after the good clean, a close inspection of the fibre glass should tell you pretty quickly if it is going to crack and leak, or not..?

Good luck with the project

Mike

[leon]

Lee, after all that good advice and other ways of fixing the problem, I'm sure a good scrub will bring it back to life. :)
You saved a heap on a new one, enjoy.;)

Leon:thumbsup:

[codemonkey]

Thanks Matthew, appreciate all the advice!

I'm planning to use a couple of long range wireless access points for comms. Been having some issues but I think that might be related to the computer using 2.4Ghz wifi and interference with the ASI 1600 which is USB 3. Should be able to sort that out ok.

I don't have mains power up there so everything is currently, and will continue to be, running off a series of batteries hooked up to a solar panel.

Not sure what I'm going to do about switching the devices on and off yet. Mount hub pro looked interesting, but it only has 3-4 USB ports, and apparently it can bug out depending on whether the computer or the hub is powered first, which might be difficult to control. I found another IP power switch that I think has ASCOM support but that was "just that" and from memory $395US + shipping.

I got the final quote from Sirius today and it's a lot more costly than expected: $10,099 + postage + handling + insurance for the dome rotation kit, shutter (replacement shutter + motors etc) kit, and the maxdome system. That's waaaaay out of the budget, so I'm going to be looking into some DIY options.

Thinking about trying to mount an Intel NUC to the scope to control everything.



hah, I like your approach Mike! I was mostly worried that it would need maintenance or start to fall apart on me. I know nothing about maintaining fibreglass. I'll give the thing a good clean and then see how it looks before deciding whether to paint or gel coat it.



Thanks Leon! Sure did save a bunch compared to a new one :D

[g__day]

If its only 350metres - could you use IP over coax or fibre with converters at either end... http://www.ad-net.com.tw/product/enhanced-high-speed-ethernet-lan-extender/?gclid=CJyGvtu7_c4CFVMAvAodXiwERw

When I bought in Oct last year the rotation only kit from Sirius was about $3,500 + ~ $250 shipping + $110 in packaging plus handling and the shutter kit was quoted around $4,700 + shipping - ponder if prices have risen lately? You can always just wander down at the start of your run to open the dome and switch on gear and then again at the end of the night to close it - guess that would be a 5 minute walk both ways or 1 minute on a bike!

[codemonkey]

IP over coax could be an option - I'll see how these access points work out. Things are looking promising now but I won't know for sure until I get my new computer.

The prices I was quoted are actually cheaper than that, but I'm also including the quoted cost of Maxdome which is an additional 3.5k

I want my gear to be able to image while I sleep. I only get a couple of hours of imaging on a clear night at the moment because I have to pack up at about 10pm (usually 9:30), and I don't want to be getting up in the middle of the night to shut things up.

I'm considering a few options but intend to motorise/automate it myself now. It might take up a bit of my time for a while, but it's not going to cost me over 10k, I'm certain of that.

[g__day]

When you add image while you sleep - that means to me you need:

1. A weather sensor - like a Boltwood - which will sense rain and/or clouds and send a message to the dome to close

2. An astro lab management software suite - like ACP - where you can with the right equipment possible set up many nights of imaging run processing - let it manage the scheduling on the fly and optimise it for your night sky quality and target position.

All very do able I hear - but not terribly cheap!

[w0mbat]

Unfortunately the Sirius gear just seems to get more and more expensive particularly when you are "upgrading" an existing dome. When I bought my observatory I got the Maxdome system for dome rotation only and was shocked when I then priced an upgrade to powered shutter.
For reliable and reasonably priced long range wifi check out Ubiquity products. They make "enterprise grade" devices which seem to me to be more capable than consumer grade stuff. I made a rock solid connection over 1100 metres with their Nanostation devices which were only around $70 each (a couple of years ago). Many of their devices are 12 Volt powered and 12 power over Ethernet connectors are cheaply available (to get power to the external device from your Observatory over the same cable that will bring the network inside). Simple to set up if you have or can learn some basic networking skills.
Ian

[glend]

I image while I sleep now, with SGP managing everything in the run. I don't mind getting up to close the roof when the run is done, just set my phone alarm to wake me up and take a walk then go back to bed. Cheap solution, but your system has to be stable. I think SGP also has the ability to trigger an alert if a sequence stops/abends for some reason, but I don't have that working yet. Teamviewer can give you monitoring capability right from your bedside if you wish (my goal), and your probably within wifi range for that (with an extender). It doesn't need to be expensive.

[Atmos]

When I get auto focus up and running I'll be able to get a decent nights sleep while imaging. At the moment I get up every hour or two to refocus. Get up at 5:30 to pack up, bring inside and let it dry off for the day. I leave for work at 6:10.

[codemonkey]

Not necessarily. Having automatic target optimisation is definitely a nice to have, rather than a must. I'm also a software developer, so I could write my own solution if necessary.

Weather sensing is also a nice to have -- big difference between going to bed with the gear scheduled to close up in a couple of hours vs automatic cloud / rain sensor and opening up automatically.

Finally, there's much cheaper options than a Boltwood.



Thanks Ian :-)

Yeah, I was surprised by the cost of the kit. I'd seen the "Dome and shutter kit" advertised somewhere for 3.5k and assumed that included motors etc, but it turned out it was just Maxdome, so the >10k quote was an unwelcome surprise.

I've actually already bought a few TP-Link wireless access points and a dc -> poe injector to live up at the observatory so I'll see how I go with those.



Yeah, SGP does have alarming functionality but it requires it to be connected to the net, which mine won't be. I'll probably use Teamviewer as the new computer that I ordered yesterday is coming with Windows 10 Home, so no remote desktop.



You and Glen both must have understanding partners! Half the reason I'm doing this is because my wife is a bit unimpressed with the impact my hobby is having, let alone setting alarms and waking her up multiple times a night!

[Atmos]

<--- Single :P Still looking for that astronomy addicted wife :lol:

[glend]

And i am divorced, thankfully.

[codemonkey]

A rare find that will be!



Sorry to hear that Glen.

Up until now I've been using a cheap Lenovo laptop for image acquisition, but I've now purchased an ASRock BeeBox (http://www.asrock.com/microsite/beebox/#portfolio). Reviews all seem positive. Comes with 4x USB 3.0 ports, uses up to 3A of power and comes with Windows 10 out of the box. A lot of those little PCs don't come with an OS which will cost a couple of hundred extra for a legit copy.

The BeeBox I got only has 32Gb storage, but I intend to write a little application to monitor the filesystem for new images and move them across the network to a 2TB drive. Only cost $325, so pretty happy with that.

I'm considering a RIGrunner 4005i (https://powerwerx.com/west-mountain-radio-rigrunner-4005i-internet-control) for remote power control. Not really sure if it's a good idea to run all this gear off the same battery though, even if it is a monster 220Ah. I'm currently running most of it off the one battery (except my auto focuser), but I'll be adding in the new PC and an automated OTA cap / flat field panel as well.

[g__day]

Must say if you have to refocus several times a night - maybe consider an On Axis guider and add their focus lock solution - which changes focus on the guiding chip and hence on the primary acquisition camera in real time as the focus changes with temporature. The physics as I understand it is a single cold mirror will make the guide star a slight oval - and the orientation of the primary axis of the oval will shift as according to the direction you move from focus - this allows the software to re-focus on the fly during every image - nifty!

https://www.innovationsforesight.com/education/on-axis-guider-onag/

[codemonkey]

Probably going to use a worm gear motor (https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-50w-45-65-rpm-5-29nm-torque.html) and a pololu motor controller (https://littlebirdelectronics.com.au/collections/brushed-dc-motor-controllers/products/pololu-simple-high-power-motor-controller-18v15-fully-assembled) to drive the dome rotation.

At this stage I'm thinking of mounting a small solar panel and AGM battery to the dome and fixing the motor to the dome rather than the ring. From there, I'll probably drive it with a timing belt fixed to the ring, and have an arduino hooked up to the PC which will transmit radio control signals to the dome-mounted controller.

[codemonkey]

I've been on a shopping spree:

* 1x Motor for dome rotation
* Several metres of reinforced timing belt
* 1x pulley
* 2x wireless circuit boards
* 1x motor controller circuit board
* 1x arduino uno
* 1x ASRock BeeBox
* 1x Pegasus Pier
* 1x Alnitak Flip-Flat for remote flats / OTA cap

Still haven't moved the obs, though I've cleaned most of the junk out of it now. Hoping to move the obs to our place the weekend after next, where I'll clean it up. Still haven't organised the slab for the dome yet either.

[Atmos]

Feel like parking it up at Heathcote for a while? :P

[RobF]

Blast it Lee. First you've got decent rural skies, and now a dome.
Where is the "green with jealousy" emoticon! :lol:

[thebonz]

I got mine in similar condition. These things are made to a high quality finish. After some research, I simply removed the mould with bleach and then cut and polished the gelcoat. It came up so new looking that on assembly the thing was so glary I got complaints from family members.
It is a few years since it's polish and I prefer to leave it with the weathered look.
John

[codemonkey]

ha!



Not quite a dome yet - at the moment it's a bunch of filthy disconnected pieces of fibreglass sitting on my lawn :lol:



Cheers John! I've started cleaning it up a bit over the past couple of days, a little bit at a time. The dirt was coming off easily enough, but the lichen had stained it. I took your advice this afternoon and had a go with some bleach and its coming up much better.

I've got some 3M Fibreglass Restorer and wax on the way and I'm pretty confident that after I hit it with that it'll look as good as new.

Had fun dismantling it. I had to angle grind off the nuts on the concrete anchors because they were so rusted there was no distinction between bolt and nut. Lots of the other bolts were so rusted that they snapped rather than unscrewed.

Most of the wheels/rollers/whatever they are on the shutter have broken up so I'll need to find something to replace those.

[codemonkey]

Dome has cleaned up nicely considering its about 20yrs old. Still yet to use the fibreglass restorer on it. I've attached a few before and after shots.

Slab has now been put down for the obs. The pier footing has been there for a while. Left a big gap between the main slab and the pier footing to reduce vibrations. Not sure what I'll fill that with yet.

Pegasus pier is near complete and should be delivered next weekend.

Motor and pulley on the way for the automation of the top shutter. Things are slowly coming together.

[spiezzy]

That looks Awesome Lee well done and what a great idea for the pad I like the way you have put fall one each side to elevate the water from getting in very smart indeed
cheers Pete :eyepop::thumbsup:

[codemonkey]

Cheers Pete :-) I'm afraid the fall is an illusion caused by the wide-angled lens on the phone this was taken with. I thought the same thing when I saw it. In its previous home the dome was anchored to the slab using concrete anchors, and a big chunk of silicone put down between the dome and the slab to prevent ingress. Seems like it should do the job and I intend to do the same.

[strongmanmike]

A length of Armaflex copper pipe insulation poked down the gap will do the trick and look neat (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/156841254/original), available in any diameter you need to fill that gap snugly, I used it for my same gap in my former dome slab (http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/150329289/original).

The dome is looking good Lee :thumbsup:

Mike

[thebonz]

Good to see that the dome is coming up ok. I had to hit some stubborn spots on my dome with bleach a few times to remove the mould. The bleach kills the mould spores. No mould has returned after a few years.
I used a fibreglass cut and polish according to manufacturers directions.
As these domes are manufactured at the same high quality finish as fibreglass boats are made, I used boat restoration techniques to bring my dome up to an almost new finish.
john

[codemonkey]

Cheers Mike. That Armaflex stuff looks good. Any idea where I can get it?



Cheers John; good to hear the bleach has a long term effect as well. I've been using a fibreglass cut/polish/wax on it now which has improved the finish, but it's definitely not almost new.

In other news, the pier (from Pegasus Piers) arrived today. Looks good, but I've yet to check that the mount fits. The pier has more of a taper than is apparent in this photo, and no "rats nest" which is a plus.

[strongmanmike]

Any plumbing supplies store like Reece or Tradelink and I am sure even Bunnings et al would carry something similar too, it's just the stuff you wrap hot water pipes with.

That pier looks good.

Mike

[codemonkey]

Cheers Mike; found it on the Bunnings site, but of course couldn't find it in store when I was there. No matter though, I'll find some soon enough.

Dome is mostly assembled now. Taking a break 'cause it's hot as hell out there now.

Having some issues with dome eccentricity. Spent hours now tapping out walls, loosening and tightening bolts etc. It's a lot better, but there's still parts where the dome overhangs the walls by a bit, and movement becomes more difficult. Hopefully it's moving freely enough that I can motorise it.

[Slawomir]

Looks awesome Lee! No other buildings in sight - you must have really nice dark skies over there. However, I am not entirely sure if you could manage to fit two mounts inside your dome...;)