Baader Hyperion Eyepieces?

[Rick Parrott]

I'm thinking about a Baader Hyperion Eyepiece to use for mainly planetary viewing in my 12" and 6" f5 scopes, perhaps 8mm? I'm looking at an intermediate performance/cost, and the extra feature of 1.25 and 2" for my 2" Crayford on the 12" scope might be a good "next step" for me?
I have a 6mm TeleVue Plossl, but as a glasses-wearer it has poor eye relief and hasn't really done it for me!

Any suggestions to put me on the right track (or further confuse me :lol:) would be very welcome!

[mental4astro]

Hi Rick,

Hyperions/Stratus eyepieces are NOT designed for Newtonians. These work best in refractors, SCT's and Maks.

You will see field curvature, pincushion, blackouts, as some of the aberrations if you use them in Newts. There is nothing wrong with these eyepieces - this is what happens with eyepiece design matching a particular shape of focal plane.

The one exception is the 5mm Hyperion. It is excellent in Newts, even down to f/4. I've had all but one of the Hyperions, and I've seen their performance - great, just not in Newts.

Many people use the different Hyperions with Newts. Most people are just not aware of the optical mismatch and so are happy with them. But, since you asked here, an there is a lot of experience here in IIS, I'd suggest you look at other designs. Sadly, the better the optical match with Newts, the more expensive these eyepieces tend to be. But, if you are not wanting to break the piggy bank, and are after some reasonable performance, look at the 30mm, 20mm and 15mm GSO Superviews. These all have an AFOV of 68*, and do very well in Newts for their price, and have great eye relief. The 30mm is a 2" fellow - you won't find a 30mm eyepiece with a 1.25" barrel give a 68* AFOV.

Plossls work very well with Newts as they are an optical match, but this is with slower Newts. f/5 and faster begins to test the plossl design.

Alex.

[janoskiss]

I don't agree with Alexander. IMO the Hyps perform well in fast Newts for their price point. Issues like blackout are somewhat subjective. I don't have a problem there. Still, for planetary viewing I would not recommend them; they're okay, but you can do better.

Get a Pentax XF 8.5mm. I think there is a used one on IceTrade or get a new one here: http://www.digidirect.com.au/binoculars/pentax/pentax_smc_xf_85mm_eyepiece_125inch (Note that these guys don't always have stuff in stock and you may be waiting a while if you buy online.)
It's as good as it gets near this focal length if you want decent eye relief and FOV.

[brian nordstrom]

:question: Yes .

Personally I am in between Alex and Steve on this , as I have owned a few Hyperion's as a set , an 8mm 13mm and 21mm if memory serves and found them good but there is something about them , as has been said here ? they ( for me anyway ) never really 'Gelled ?' , as a set one was good for this , another was good at that , and so on , shame really as they are a very well made eyepiece .

If I was you I would look hard at the Long Perng planetary eyepieces Andrews sells , these have a nice 20mm eye relief and work very well together as a set , so to speak :thumbsup: and that helps a lot in the dark at midnight .

Also saving a lot of cash getting a 3 eyepiece set .

In your scope I would suggest the 9mm 12mm and 18mm , good eyepieces these are .

Also have a long hard look at that 28mm 2 inch WO for sale in the Classifieds , awesome buy that is .

Brian.

[Don Pensack]

The Hyerions seem to work just fine down to about f/4.5 in a newtonian IF the newtonian is used with a coma corrector. I think a lot of what the Hyperions get blamed for is the presence of coma in the outer fields.
True, like many less expensive eyepieces, they are not completely free from edge of field astigmatism, and there may be better alternatives if one is looking for better edge correction.
But, for planetary use, where the planet is likely to be confined to, say, the center 50% of the field, and the requirement is for long eye relief, they'd do fine.
Now, the Chinese eyepieces sold as Astrotech AF70/Celestron Ultima LX/Olivon 70/Arturus Ebony and many other labels are, in my opinion, a bit sharper in that center 50%.
And if the purpose is a long eye relief eyepiece for planetary use, an economical solution might be the Meade HD60, the Celestron X-Cel LX, or the BST Dual ED (sold as Astrotech Paradigm, Agena Starguide ED and many other labels).
And if price isn't a factor, the TeleVue Delite may be just the ticket.

[Rick Parrott]

Wow, thank you all, lot's to consider here!

[mental4astro]

Hi Don,

Not only coma alone that is seen in Hyperions. Coma is present, as it is in all eyepieces with Newts, that are not corrected to some extent. I mentioned pincushion (particularly in the 24mm & 8mm), field curvature (worse in some than in others of the line up - which is why some people find those focal lengths with milder field curvature a better EP. I think most people find the 17mm this way) and yes, a little astigmatic - one key aberration denoting an optical mismatch.

Not all Hyperions show the same aberrations, nor to the same extent - again why some people don't mind specific individual focal lengths. All but the 5mm and 24mm use a Smythe lens field grouping, which is the primary hint for the optical mismatch with Newts. The 24mm has no such field grouping, and if I remember correctly is a modified Erfle design, which again is not an optical match with Newts. The scope I used them on was an f/4.5 Newt, which will test most EPs, and like Don said, the Hyperions will perform better in slower Newts. Again, those people who don't mind their Hyperions are also using slower Newts.

Don also points out that there are better options than the Hyperions, albeit with smaller AFOV. Thanks Don for listing some of these, :thumbsup:. A staggeringly big AFOV should not be your only guiding factor in EP selection.

PLEASE remember, I am not dismissing the Hyperion line up. My argument is purely on of horses for courses and giving a well meaning reply to a given question. I TOTALLY agree that the perception of aberrations is a subjective one. And I have only noted what these eyepieces show so you know what to expect. You can then decide if some field curvature, or a little astigmatism is acceptable or not, and in my books, that is completely acceptable and logical. Most of my EPs some some aberration or other, and some EPs are absolutely not for my Newts, just my SCT and refractors. I am not an 'aberration free zombe', :lol:

There is another great thing about the Hyperion line up - every focal length, other than the 24mm, makes use of a removable field group in the 1.25" barrel fixture. Removing this field group alters the focal length of the resulting new lens combination to a longer one. The Baader info sheet on the Hyperion line up mentions this, but for some reason this is little known in the wider astro community. I have a 13mm Hyperion in my clutch of EPs, and have removed its 1.25" field grouping. In this configuration (roughly being 23mm) this EP is the one I most use in my Daystar Quark solar filter. Blooming brilliant this way in my refractor, :)

I've mentioned the Smythe lens field grouping of these. It occurred to me some time ago to see what happens if I replace the Smythe lens with a Barlow lens of my 13mm. And bugger me! The performance of this new configuration markedly improved the image quality in fast Newts! The main aberration I noticed was coma (a given), but field curvature was greatly reduced as was pincushion and astigmatism. Hey, not perfect, but a vast improvement on the straight 13mm Hyperion. But not everyone is as willing to experiment with their EPs this way, :rolleyes:

The Hyperion Zoom Mk III is a different beast altogether again, and is great in Newts.

[ausastronomer]

Hi Rick,

I might be flattered somewhat by having a case full of premium eyepieces but as others have mentioned I think the Hyperion's are fairly average and there are better options available to you. Some focal length Hyperions work ok in certain type/ focal length / focal ratio scopes, some aren't good in any telescope. The 13mm is one of these. I spent 3 hours one night dropping a 13mm Orion Stratus (Hyperion Clone) into over 1/2 the telescopes on the observing field. This included 8"/F6 newt, 10"/F5 newt, 18"/F4.5 newt, 20"/F5 newt, Celestron C8, Meade 10" LX200, Celestron C11 an Orion ED80 and a Takahashi FS102. It was a POS in every single telescope as far as I was concerned and not an eyepiece I would ever want to own regardless of the telescopes I owned. Some people may be less demanding than me and be quite happy with it.

You state you're a glasses wearer and need long eye relief (like me) and your 2 scopes are F5 newts. If cost is an issue, I would be looking around for a 2nd hand 8mm Televue Radian (no longer made) or buying a new 8.5mm Pentax XF. Both are a quantum leap ahead of the Hyperions and almost the equal of top drawer eyepieces like Pentax XW's and Televue Delos. I haven't used a Televue Delite so I can't comment on those. At the current price of about $AUS 310 you might consider a new 7mm Pentax XW. That's as good as it gets and an absolute bargain at that price.

Cheers,
John B

[ausastronomer]

Here you go Rick.

A 2nd hand 8.5mm Pentax XF for sale on Icetrades right now for $160.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=145179

I would be negotiating price with the seller and then jumping all over that if I was in your position.

Cheers,
John B

[Don Pensack]

The other eyepieces I mentioned first have the same approximate apparent field as the Hyperions.
As with many eyepieces in this price range, the Hyperion's primary downfall is the edge of field astigmatism. I used to think this was only due to their inability to handle a short f/ratio, but I also found the same astigmatism at f/8 and longer, so they simply aren't corrected there.
And that astigmatism seems worse when they are used as 2" eyepieces without the bottom Smythe lens.

But even with that said, and you could add EOFB in some focal lengths and spherical aberration in others (which clears up with use of a barlow instead of the Smythe lens as you noted), they still represent better eyepieces than many of the inexpensive Chinese eyepieces out there, and if you add a pair of Fine Tuning Rings, the 21mm becomes a 21/17.8/15.5/14mm set, and also can be used with a 2X barlow for 10.5/8.9/7.8/7mm. Someone on a tight budget could buy one eyepiece, one Barlow, and a set of rings and suddenly have 8 focal lengths.

If it's one of those Barlows with a separate lens that can be unthreaded and added to the eyepiece separately, then 16 focal lengths!

And, used in a refractor or SCT, 32 focal lengths (counting lens on front of star diagonal and complete barlow in front of star diagonal).

And the 21mm is the best in the entire series to my eye.

Of course, not everyone is on that tight of a budget, but I didn't even count the eyepiece sans Smythe lens, which makes it one more.

I do agree with John that the 13 may be the weakest in the series.

[Rick Parrott]

Hello all,
Thank you again for great advice; I ended up getting a couple of the Long Perng LER eyepieces as Brian suggested :thumbsup: for now ( a 9mm and a 14.5mm - only ones Andrews had in current stock!). They were very affordable, and I hope a good intermediate step up from my Plossl eyepieces. I ordered Tuesday and they were in my hands Wednesday - pretty good service!
Got to use them on Friday night, and :eyepop:!
I can't believe how good Jupiter and Saturn looked! And I think we have seen Mars "properly" for the first time! I assume these are a wider view than a Plossl; it was much easier to follow these with our 12" Dob! I will try and post an observation report/review! Perhaps I'm easily pleased but these are really nice and make a huge improvement for planetary viewing!