Windows 10 goodbye

[pmrid]

Well, that was a short honeymoon. About 2 weeks at a rough count. I just had to do a full restore because Windows 10 announced it had a Critical Error and Cortana and the Start Menu would not load. How good is that? My system had begun to be a bit flaky ever since I loaded Win 10 - 2 or 3 instances when it reported errors and required restarts. Several times, I have been unable to get the Start Menu to respond to a left-click and at first I thought maybe it's using all its (i7 8 cores) power doing something or other and so let it pass. Last night It happened again but I was able to get it to respond to a right-click only. And today - neither would answer the call. So that was that for me.

I haven't enjoyed the Windows 10 trip I'm afraid. Not one bit. It reminds me of being in a Vegas Casino - all bling and flashing lights. And always, it seems, I have to sign in to Microsoft for this and that. Well, that's me outa here.

Peter

[bojan]

XP rules..

Linux even more.

[lazjen]

I'm with you bojan re: Linux. My SSD died last night on my main desktop. It was the boot disk. Reinstalling windows (no matter the version) fills me with dread, so it's time to make the break completely. Installing linux on the new SSD tonight. :)

[AstralTraveller]

Yep, if there is suitable software for your needs available under Linux it is far far less hassle. Unfortunately there can be the occasional bug that hangs around for too long but generally it just works. [eg At the moment Linux Mint MATE desktop edition has issues with bluetooth. However it has been solved for the Cinnamon desktop so I expect the cure to be propagated soon.] It also uses far less space, half to a third of what Windows needs for an equivalent install.

BTW what distros do others use?

[pluto]

For about 10 years I used various flavors of Linux on my workstation because I was sick of how terrible XP was when doing anything that strained the computer in the slightest, and was still disappointed I couldn't use Irix anymore :( (for animation/VFX work).

Debian, Slackware, CENTOS, Fedora, OpenSuse, Ubuntu, many WMs/DEs - always optimistically searching for a setup that would work for everything I wanted it to without spending months setting it up. And it was good during the brief periods where everything worked. Inevitably though some core software I use would need an update and of course needed newer libraries/dependancies or whatever, which of course when updated broke something else. And so at these points I would either have to make the decision to write off a few days to try and fix it or just reinstall a newer/different distro and hope it would play nice. I used to enjoy these challenges in my 20s - now I can't be bothered and I want to spend my time doing my work.

About a year ago I was at one of these points and was hating having a job where I had to rely on computers in general - Linux was a PITA and the Macs I also used were so buggy when using anything other than Mail or Word. Then I realised that there was one computer which had never crashed/lagged inexplicably/generally freaked out ever - my lappy running Win8.1.

So I installed 8.1 on my workstation and it's been great! It's definitely a tiny bit slower than the best Linux+Gnome installs I had but it's efficient with memory usage (the main reason I dumped XP), very stable, and everything just works!
I'm not ready to update it to Win10 yet of course but my Surface Pro 3 seems fine running 10 (it should...) :D

I should mention I'm not anti Linux as it is the most efficient, I still run it on all our file/license servers and the render farm is all Linux, I just can't be bothered with it on a desktop anymore.

[Garbz]

Windows 10 has been known for a lot of things, but self destructive was not one of them. For the benefit of the rest of us: Did you do an upgrade? Was there anything out of the ordinary when you did your install?

I ask this out of genuine curiosity as none of the Windows 10 setups I have so far have fallen over. They are not perfect by any means. Every so often Windows 10 gets confused as to the state of the Surface Pro keyboard and won't flip up on the screen keyboard, and similar bugs like that but so far nothing critical, at least not since the early test releases.



I have a lot of praise for Linux, but I would never describe it as less hassle. Far from it. I find doing basic things is far more complicated and getting a fully running stable system able to do simple stuff like work with a bluetooth headset, enter suspend state, and even install basic software without the occasional conflicting library is a textbook example of hassle. A hassle I normally manage to overcome but a hassle none the less.

[pmrid]

Hi Chris.

[ BTW folks: I didn't start this thread to extol the various virtues of Linux, interesting as that is; but to point out how flaky Windows 10 is.]

No, the install went as normal. No issues and no problems. I think there was one upgrade afterwards but I didn't really pay attention. A[part from that, it was routine and no introduced wild cards that I know of.

I did a quick Google on search terms containing the terms Critical Error, Cortana and Start Menu won't load and got a great heap of hits. So this is far from an isolated issue.

Peter

[Regulus]

I have had 2 bad download/instal experiences with Win10 and just don't want to put it on any of my computers now. Maybe after SP1 comes out (at which point they will probably be charging for it).
Win7 does the job fine, and having had to reformat my music pc because of it was a bloody niusance that I should be able to charge MS for.

Trev

[RB]

Thanks for the feedback Peter.
I'm not even gonna say hello to Win 10.

RB
:D

[Octane]

I'll never forget this quote from IRC from years ago:

<@insomnia> it only takes three commands to install Gentoo
<@insomnia> cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6
<@insomnia> that's the first one

H (a Solaris sysadmin)

[RB]

Or the other classic quote a friend of Bill Gates said to him:
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here".

;)

[lazjen]

It's changed a bit...

Anyway, that's the distro I use and am installing again. :)

[AstralTraveller]

Sorry. I should resist.

[mswhin63]

I am not sure what you are all doing, but I have not had a single issue. Weird!

On installation the only weird thing was dual monitor update, but only required a restart. Since then not a single issue and I have quite a substantial amount of software that is supposed to have quirks with Windows 10 but not a single one has been seen.

One thing I do not do in most cases is develop the hell out of a platform :bashcomp:. I just use it, so maybe that is the problem.

There is no way I will go back to Windows 8.1. My installation was direct to 8.1 as it is a new computer. I first put Windows 10 on my laptop and that too is not experiencing any issue at all.

[Garbz]

There will be no more Windows service packs. They've moved to a rapid / rolling release model.

[Regulus]

So windows 11 will be Windows 10 SP1 under an assumed name :-)

[Garbz]

If they go the rapid release way. There's a thought they will just go to rolling releases where the windows update process provides a continuous stream of "improvements" and new features and changes will trickle through slowly rather than getting a new version. The general public got Windows build 10240 (Windows 10 Release to Market) only a few weeks ago, and insiders are already on build 10525.

Quite the change in the way they are testing updates.

[julianh72]

Nope - the official Microsoft line is that Windows 10 is "the last Windows" - no more version numbers, no more Service Packs, just continual incremental updates.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows

[rogerg]

My biggest concern with Windows10 is that updates will come down in the middle of the night, rebooting or causing some other software conflict/interuption to my automation process. That is, if I were to run it on my observatory PC.

Does anyone know if it is possible to prevent updates occuring, perhaps even during periods? A less techy news article I red some time ago said updates couldn't be turned off.

Roger.

[mswhin63]

Yep

START (I think) -> Settings -> Update and Security -> Windows Update -> Advanced

Change "Automatic" to "Notify when restart"

[netwolf]

Take note.



Signing the EULA means you have agreed to above. So no need for a warrant to you any more.

[acropolite]

I think Microsoft have lost the concept of an operating system which is what W10 is supposed to be. The operating system should be an efficient and easy to manage launch platform and file management system, not a glitzy marketing vehicle.

From my experience Microsoft have simply put "lipstick on a pig", there's not much difference between W8.x and 10, just as there really wasn't that much difference between Vista in it's final form and W7.
My own install of W10 was tolerable. After update on a new cloned HDD, the first use a couple of days later resulted in extremely slow startup, lockups, flaky performance and non responsive programs, my guess is because of background update stuff happening, with Lenovo's absence of an HDD led it was impossible to even guess what was happening.

After about half an hour everything settled down and performance was as expected.
One can't help but question the uncontrolled and continuous uodate strategy.

The new start menu is IMO crap, so I opted for the excellent open source Classic Shell start menu.

I may try a clean install, really nothing to lose, as I have my original W8 install safely tucked away on the original hard drive.

I guess in the final analysis they force our hand, future hardware and driver releases will mean that we have to adopt whatever flavour of operating system they serve up, try buying PC hardware that will run on XP.

[Regulus]

Of course you could always keep Win 7/8 and dress it up like Windows 10 :-)
http://www.thememypc.com/category/packs/

[DaveNZ]

I've been running Windows 10 on my Dell laptop for a few weeks with no issues. I've been running Gemini Telescope ASCOM for my Titan, Maxim DL, Focus Max and PHD2. I had to reload a Loderstar driver and that was about it.

[Garbz]

I respectfully have to disagree. While the overall interface changes can be seen as cosmetic an incredible amount of things have changed under the hood in various versions of Windows to the point where we're no longer in a process of buying new computers to run new windows, but rather upgrading windows so that existing computers are faster and more efficient.

And some of the cosmetic features like the intelligent window snap have been a real productivity boost too.

[multiweb]

Would that be lighter to run than Win7 on similar HW?

[pluto]

Much lighter.
10 runs lighter than 8.1 and I always found 8.1 ran much more efficiently than 7.

[julianh72]

My own experience in upgrading two Dell Windows 7 notebooks (one is about 5 years old, the other is about 3 1/2 years old) to Windows 10 is that they both boot noticeably faster, and run at least as quickly as before.

I didn't do any special "optimising" before the upgrade (apart from a data back-up, "just in case"), just applied it using all default settings. All data and applications were retained, and all hardware and software is working fine - no incompatibilities or instabilities to report.

[multiweb]

Cool - I might ghost my HD on my notebook and give it a try. It's a HP Pavillion running Win7.

[gregbradley]

I updated my new laptop to Windows 10. So far it seems great. I did not like the interface of Wins 8.1. You really had to use a mouse with Win 8.1 because if you used the pad every time you went near the edge of the window all these annoying menu choices would appear. Also the close the window button was hidden to make it look cleaner so unneeded further complications. It seemed like it took 2 or 3 more clicks than before for the same tasks.

It took me about 5 weeks to find where my programs were now and how to access them - pathetic perhaps but factual!

Wins 10 is more streamlined and cleaner and more like an update to Wins 7.

The new browser seems better than Internet Explorer.

Cleaner, faster.

I haven't run any astro stuff with Wins 10 yet though.

Greg.

[ZeroID]

Beginning to go off Win10, it's too intrusive and automated. BING is a waste of time, finds nothing and it won't let me uninstall it, integrated into EDGE,
the new 'explorer'.
I set up Google as the preferred search engine but Edge still uses BING. Control Panel is buried away and it seems to think that everything is on the net instead of local. I can manage it on the media PC but I'm glad I haven't upgraded the real PC. It won't do as it is told. Adds nothing to the user experience.
I'm just worried now that some of the 800+ users I manage at work will upgrade their work PC's and come to me with all the problems and issues.

Pretty, .... pretty but useless.

[julianh72]

Seriously?!

You have 800+ work computers, and the end-users are allowed to self-manage, including upgrading the OS?!

Wow!

Just wow!

I imagine some of your support issues must be a LOT more work than "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"

At my work, our computers are so tightly locked down that we can't run any unapproved .com or .exe file, can't install any unapproved software, and application and system updates are only rolled out after the IT department has sat on them for a while (even Microsoft's "critical" patches). Even our web browsers (IE 8 and Chrome) are locked down to approved "stable" releases. We're running Windows 7 Enterprise SP1, and there's no chance we'll see Windows 8 or Windows 10 for the foreseeable future.

[britgc]

I've seen a few people on various forums on the net complain about the Control Panel being difficult to navigate to, so I just thought I'd mention if you hit the 'Windows key' + 'X' you get a handy little menu pop up that contains a shortcut to the Control Panel and other various useful things.

[Garbz]

Yes considerably. Actual calculations may not appear much faster, but better memory management will make a loaded machine much more snappy.


Settings > Settings > View Advanced Settings > Search the address bar with: and change that to Google, you may need to add it first. If you must use Edge, they've provided that feature for you. They had to due to the anti-trust case of yesteryear and the process to change the setting in Edge was easier than the one to change it in IE8 or IE9 (never used 10+)



Hey great hint. Thanks
You also get the same menu by right clicking the start bar. Also if I hit the windows key and type "Con" then Control Panel is the first result.

[Regulus]

I have over 11GB of new files in new directories under the C:/ drive!
Downloaded Win 10 to a USB stick for later instal (32 and 64) and windows just left it's junk on the drive in 9 new directories. It isn't even installed on this machine.

That's just very bad coding, and total arrogance.

Trev

[athua]

Right Clicking on the Windows Start button also opens this menu to get quick access to lots of system settings including the Control Panel.

[ZeroID]

Unfortunately yes. Many of our users are engineers in the field which means they have to have local admin access and the way many of our apps are designed means even office users need quite in depth control of systems. We've been this way for years so we are sort of used to it and we manage most stuff via GPO policies through the network but there is always the few. And engineers are the worst of course, must have latest...... oh dear .... BRENT !! ?? Help !! :shrug:

[Garbz]

The download should only have happened if you ticked yes to reserving your free copy of the upgrade. If you don't reserve it doesn't pre-download. This is no different than any other windows update that pre-downloads, and then post saves the uninstall information and keeps it for 30 days after an update is applied. It's not arrogant, you asked Microsoft to do this.

If you want your free space back either:
1. (The one you don't want): Upgrade to Windows 10, and after 30 days the uninstall information should remove and your drive should magically have more space on it.
2. (If you don't want to install Windows 10): Go to Control Panels > Programs > Programs and Features > Installed Updates, and then uninstall KB3035583. Then reboot and run the Disk Cleanup Utility on drive C. Be sure to click the button that says "Cleanup System Files" which also removes pending updates, and update uninstall information and will give you your 11GB back.

[Regulus]

Chris, I did in fact reserve it when it became available. I opted in the download for the USB/DVD download rather than direct download and install. That's why I am surprised that after it downloaded and wrote the USB thumb drive I still have 11GB of data on odd named directories.

I have renamed the directories and rebooted to see if my current Win7 installation would register a complaint if they were removed. It hasn't, so I will delete them now.
Cheers - Trev

[Garbz]

Apologies. I noted this morning in the tech news that apparently Microsoft is just downloading it regardless of user preferences. You were most definitely right to complain about it.

People are livid. Apparently it's also downloading on computers where update KB3035583 has been uninstalled. So far no concrete clue as to which update caused the download or how to potentially prevent it from re-downloading.

[gregbradley]

I've been using Wins 10 now for a few weeks. Its quite good overall.
One minor complaint is that grabbing a window to move it sometimes has quite a lag before it will let you move it. I think there are more complicated ways of moving windows and this perhaps is slowing down the basic action of grabbing a window by its top frame and moving it. It can take up to 30 seconds to let you move it. i7 laptop.

Other than that its good.

Greg.

[pluto]

Whoa, that's not normal! I get zero lag when doing anything like that on the 4 boxes I use running Win10.
Are you using a Wacom? that can cause a lag with clicking unless you turn off the "Windows Ink" thing in the Wacom settings.

Maybe check you haven't got some weird settings in the "Pen and Touch" section of the control panel. Perhaps it's something to do with RMB emulation on long click, or something to do with "Flicks"...?

[gregbradley]

No idea what a Wacom is so I guess the answer is no!

I'll look to see those settings you mention.

Greg.

[pluto]

A means of interacting with a computer that's vastly superior to a mouse ;)
Like this (http://www.wacom.com/en-au/products/pen-tablets/intuos-pro-medium)

[LewisM]

Upgraded to 10 on both wife's computers (one was 8, one was 7). No issues whatsoever, and every piece of software works - seeing I use the wife's backup laptop primarily as my astro computer (my laptop is for work), I tried MaxIM, PI, PS 5.1 and PS 6, Lightroom, Nebulosity, PHD 1 and 2 and so on - no glitches, all working, including daytime ASCOM slews, image captures etc. No issues to report at all.

Less memory intensive as 8, and seems to run smoother than 7. Total upgrade took an hour from start to finish. No errors during setup. The only non-compatibility it reported was no touch screen, which is standard anyway.

Pretty happy with Win 10 so far - seems like a cleaner 7, and a WELCOME departure from Android/Apple-esque 8 (which was a complete nightmare system!).

Not sure I will go to 10 yet on my own laptop - will keep using the wife's for a while to see if I will. I did reserve my copy in my 7 machine, but not installing JUST yet :)

[Placidus]

For me, the Win 7 to Win 10 transition was a breeze. Two tiny issues:

(1) It did the 3.3GB download without telling me (after promising that it would let me know first) and I was a bit startled when my modem went through a gigabyte in 20 minutes for no apparent reason. (Virus spray at the ready).

(2) My ancient copy of Borland C++ compiler, not supported for at least 10 years, needed reinstalling from the original disc but worked fine.

All of my own written-by-me .NET 4.5 C-sharp code just worked. Nothing to touch.

Incredibly, venerable code written by me using Borland C++ for scope and camera control and using near-real-time multimedia callback stuff that was marked as "deprecated" ten years ago, also just worked.

ImageCraft ICCV8 for AVR cross-compiler just worked. This compiles the hard real time stuff for the micro-controllers that run the mount, scope, dome, focus, generator shutdown, etc.

Email and internet all just worked.

I was pretty seriously impressed.
Best,
Mike

[skysurfer]

XP = Windows X (10) Professional.

Anyway, I have a Macbook Pro for years, and use Windows only casually on it for apps like Deepskystacker due to lack of suitable OSX apps for stacking.

And all in a VMware session under VMware Fusion. I upgraded the Win 8.1 guest to Win 10 without a glitch. So I did not need the VMware snapshot before installing W10.
And now DSS runs nicely in the Win10 VMware with ... only 1GB allocated (the Mac having 8GB) in which I already stacked several astrophotos !

[rustigsmed]

http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-admits-it-accidentally-forced-the-windows-10-upgrade-on-windows-7-pcs-494650.shtml

a number of users that were still running Windows 7 on their PCs had been forced to upgrade to Windows 10 (http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-forces-the-windows-10-upgrade-on-windows-7-pcs-494597.shtml), with Windows Update providing no other option than to restart the computer and start the install.

[LewisM]

Just found an oddity with Win10 - some of my CCDStack functions are GONE, and MaxIM has reverted to an un-registered state (and I cannot recall my details for registration!). Weird. Might just reload them entirely.

[Exfso]

I notice on my windows 7 machine if I click on updates, I get the message that Windows 10 is available for download. There is no way that I know of to hide this notification, anyone have any ideas. I do not want this damn Windows 10 until it has been de-bugged. :mad2:

[PeterM]

Two weeks ago nuked the Toshiba i7 Win8.1 lappy back to factory reset and then installed Win 10. So far its running without any issues and its quick. No issues SkyX Pro, Maxim 5, CCD Soft, or any Astro programmes I reloaded

[pixelsaurus]

Win10 installed itself on my Win7 lappy. It ran like a bag of pus until I uninstalled it. I get occasional messages about upgrading and when I update Win7,it hasn't reinstalled Win10, so far.
My Win10 upgrade from Win8.1 has been troublefree so far.

[Garbz]

You need to uninstall the update that gave you the nagware to begin with:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-remove-windows-10-nag-messages-3614204/

[Exfso]

Chris, I uninstalled update KB3035583 ages ago, it made no difference. It originally got rid of the windows 10 icon on the task bar, all was ok, or at least I thought it was. Now I am getting this damn advice. I am pretty sure it came with one of the more recent updates, but Microsoft floods us with them and I have no idea which one may be the culprit.:help:

Update, I found the fix and it works perfectly..

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22322-upgrade-windows-10-update-enable-disable-windows-7-8-1-a.html

[Shiraz]

FWIW - just had a similar experience with a variety of malfunctions on my i7 machine (worst being no search function). However, my Win10 worked very nicely for a while and only started playing up well after the amnesty period - so I couldn't get back to Win8.1.

Eventually got so bad that it was only randomly starting up in a usable mode and I was getting close to having a brick with no way to restore a functioning OS. So, the last time it managed to start up in a reasonably usable state I ran reset. That removed all installed apps and I have just been through the painful process of re-installing all of my astro software (and everything else). Now have my fingers crossed in the hope that re-installation of apps will work properly and that this version of Win10 will be reliable.

Although the Win8.1 UI experience was as endearing as a toothache, at least the system was stable. The Win10 experience has not been a good one so far and it is not comforting to be running an operating system that I do not trust.