Energy Consumption

[xelasnave]

It would seem that a market economy will always drive the trend to supply more ...sell more...energy.
Raising price or taxation does not appear effective.
Increased cost is passed on but consumption generally can go unaffected
Then we have wasteful consumption which seems unaffected by price.
I see the management of energy a problem which needs global attentions
Is rationing an answer or is there another solution.
With increasing population and global improvement in living standards demands will increase.
Getting rid of coal will solve some problems and introduce others.
What will we do when everyone on the planet expects 2 cars and 5 tv sets as the norm...just let the market sort it out????

[el_draco]

The problem with energy demand is not actually related to generation but uncontrolled population. Whilst its a simplistic interpretation, supply increases in line with demand. WHEN population stabilises, and probably collapses substantially, demand will also stabilise and probably collapse.

There is also an interesting correlation between the availability of supply and local population growth; more T.V's, WII's DVD's PC's, less bonking...:lol:

[xelasnave]

Indeed population is key but it seems that it may increase
It will be interesting when it doubles
I doubt if my energy concerns will go away

[casstony]

I spent one night away from home recently and arrived home the next afternoon to find the TV, heater and computer had been left on all day in an empty house - can't train the wife and kids no matter how hard I try.

[el_draco]

Recycle it, Remove power plug, Change Password, hand them the bill.... Only have to do it once ;)

[xelasnave]

I doubt it
And that is the problem ..how do you change behaviour..
Even extreme measures fail.
We make certain drugs illegal with severe penalties...little effect
Speeding fines have little impact
Motivating a human is complicated
So the future may be more of the same

[casstony]

I'm a poor brow beaten house husband so I can't be that assertive :) - I'll just keep running around switching off lights and shutting doors.

[xelasnave]

Better than most households Tony at least there is one person trying to conserve energy

[Kal]

You may be suprised to know that in Australia at least, electricity consumption has fallen for the past four years, despite the increasing population.

link (http://www.smh.com.au/comment/watts-happening-electricity-demand-falling-as-prices-continue-to-rise-20140822-1072t4.html)

[el_draco]

It's true that I have only one data point to draw on.... But the trial was a success. 4 bedrooms, 2 lounge rooms $1200 p.a.... or else :evil2:

[xelasnave]

You then can be CEO of my proposed Global Energy Distribution Corporation
Having been off the grid for 18 years have not had a bill but the best thing has been the energy education.
One thing I found most useful was a solar oven.
Just a carton with foil liner and glass lid...I would place a mug of water and a mug of baked beans in it in the morning and lunch and a coffee was ready by lunch time.
I have read an efficient solar oven will even bake bread.

[tlgerdes]

See, that goes against Roms ideology :P

[tlgerdes]

Taking that long, I'd forget that my coffee was on there till the following day :lol:

[CJ]

Does that figure allow for the take up of home solar power?

[AstralTraveller]

See, it has other benefits. It improves planning and memory.

[xelasnave]

By the time I was ready for it it was ready for me..did not think about it whilst doing stuff

[AndrewJ]

Probably not, but if you are talking Victoria, i suspect a big portion of the drop is due to all the energy intensive industries closing down the furnaces/producion lines, and turning off the lights as they lock the doors.

Andrew

[tlgerdes]

Actually, if you read the article, it did. It outlined do in business demand due to some big users closing, no increase in demand from regular manufacturing, more wise consumption from users, and solar power as some of the factors

[AndrewJ]

Gday Trevor

I also tried to look for other sources specific to Victorias usage, and a lot of them noted solar panels were taking away usage from the grid at times, but they didnt really quantify it in a consistent manner,
ie is the total "consumer" consumption dropping due to wiser use
or is the consumption the same or greater, but just not coming from the grid and they dont really know how much panels are producing.
I find the numbers to be a bit "rubbery" to say the least:P

Andrew

[tlgerdes]

Their calculations say

"that the growth in output from rooftop photovoltaic solar and other small, distributed generators accounts for about 13 per cent of the shortfall."

[Kal]

Yep.

Here are the cliff notes for the fall in energy consumption, and what they attribute it to:

37% - The biggest single reason is the introduction from the late 1990s of regulations to increase the energy efficiency of refrigerators, freezers and many other residential and commercial appliances, and to increase the energy efficiency of new buildings.
10% - structural change in the economy away from electricity-intensive industries. Over the year to September 2012, three major NSW industrial power users – Port Kembla steelworks, Kurri Kurri aluminium smelter and the Clyde oil refinery – were partly or completely shut down.
14% - power consumption by other major industrial users has been little changed over the three years to 2012-13
19% - response of electricity users, particularly residential users, to the higher prices they were being charged
13% - growth in output from rooftop photovoltaic solar and other small, distributed generators

[AndrewJ]

I understand that bit ;)
But what if people know they have got panels and hence can use what they want, and hence increase their overall usage???
They may have reduced what they used from the grid by 13 percent, but are they eventually using more overall ???, ie have they reduced their total energy footprint.
I havent been able to see anything covering that.


Andrew

[CJ]

Sorry Andrew, I didn't see your link.
Interesting figures.
Thanks.

[tlgerdes]

I think that will depend on whether you are on the older Gross Feed-In Tariffs (FIT) or the newer Nett FIT.

With the gross FIT, they see what you generate and what you consume as 2 separate items, so can tell if your consumption has changed. With Nett, they don't, they only see the difference between what you use and what you generate.

I am waiting on my 4kw system to be installed and chose to have a power monitor installed so I can watch my own habits.