Japanese translator

[johnnyt123]

Hey guys...

I purchased an antique samurai sword last week and it has some Japanese inscriptions on the side which i would really like to know what they mean.

So i am hoping that there may be some Japanese fellow amateur asrtonomers out there who could translate it for me....

Thanks in advance..

John

[omegacrux]

Hi John
Don't know if you are aware that if you take the peg out and remove the grip there can sometimes be a makers mark there !
Beautiful looking blade

David

[johnnyt123]

Hi David.

I have seen these disassembled. But I have no idea how to do it and I don't want to do anything that might ruin it.

I love the folded pattern on the blade and it's sharp enough to shave with!!!
The previous owner really looked after it well.

I am just hoping someone can translate what the instructions say.....

[omegacrux]

Any chance of more pics ?
Beautiful bit of metalwork I certainly isn't the common military ones that they produced by the truckloads

David

[johnnyt123]

This is a shrine sword. So i dont believe it was made for combat.

I could take some more photos for you later on tonight when i get home David..

[Regulus]

Just sending ur pic to my nephew who is in Japan teaching. Will let you know what he says as soon as he responds

Trev

[vaztr]

Could it be...

Caution, sharp edge

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

VAZ

[Steffen]

This could be a bit of a double-edged sword... :P

Cheers
Steffen.

[Baddad]

Hi Andrew & Steffen,

:lol::lol::rofl::rofl::lol::lol:

Hi John,

Nice looking bit of antique weaponry or ornament.

Cheers

[johnnyt123]

LOL Andrew and Steffen

Very sharp indeed.

Thanks Trevor. Eagerly awaiting your Nephews response...

I will upload more pics for those of you who are interested later om tonight...
I am still stuck at work...

:(

[johnnyt123]

or i could just upload them now...
These are the pics the previous owner sent me..

[johnnyt123]

and a few more..

As you can see... there are depictions of the romantic life of a Geisha and Samurai....

[Steffen]

The sword has raised a bit of interest here at work, even though no one could read the inscription. Discussion points were:

The inscription could also be in Chinese and is most definitely not modern. Probably a name (maker, workshop?) followed by a year. Most likely not "Made in China" :D
A katana and its sheath goes on the rack with the curve pointed up, but then the ornamentation would be upside-down?
A katana doesn't normally have a curved handle.


Cheers
Steffen.

[johnnyt123]

well i am no sword expert, hence why I be asking these questions....

For all i know it could very well be made in china....

thats why i want to get some information on what the inscriptions say...
I might look at the makers mark by removing the handle as David suggested...

The previous owner explained that this was a shrine sword and not a battle sword, hence the curved handle.

the sheath and handle is all made from brass. its quite heavy to carry around on the battle field......

Thanks to every one for all your input so far...I didnt expect it would generate much interest.... I just thought i might get one simple reply..."the inscriptions mean...bla bla bla bla"

John

[Regulus]

Just saw the photos - that's a beautiful thing u have there. Looks very Kama Sutra too, and I guess a sword is needed in the boudoir? :-)
On the subject of curves - no curves: the very famous sword known as the 'Washing Pole' had no curve at all. I think with more research it could be possible to find instances of straight blades and/or curved handles.
I believe the straight handle and curved blade is a good general rule but that exceptions were made (at least the Washing Pole was exceptional).
I am really curious about this.

[LewisM]

Ask Mill here - he colects Katana's etc.

Never seen one with a curved handle like that. The tsuba (crossguard) looks somewhat unsual in some ways too, but being perhaps decorative/ceremonial, who knows.

I only have one Katana - the Shin Gunto my Grandfather brought back from Balikpapan.

[LewisM]

PS: I am SURE you know this, but whatever you do, do NOT attempt to polish the brass etc - it'll kill the value instantly to half what you paid for it.

Originality and patina is the key with these.

[johnnyt123]

Thanks for that advice Lewis.
I was told to only oil the blade every 3 months or so.
But nothing about polishing the brass.

[johnnyt123]

So the mystery remains as to the origin and nature of this samurai sword....

[PCH]

John,

I know nothing about swords or blades, but I'd be tempted to google 'samurai sword forums'.

When you find one, join it and ask your questions there. You'll have all the answers in no time at all.

Just my unknowledgable 2 bobs worth ;)

[johnnyt123]

Thanks Paul. I will look into it.

[LewisM]

Don't oil the blade with usual oil either. If it is a genuine blade, you should only use urushi oil on it. You can buy it here in Australia as a kit.

[Pinwheel]

I thought the samurai sword was a sacred object to the Japaneses & it was passed from father to son. This is why many swords from WW2 are being returned to many family's in Japan.

[johnnyt123]

Lewis I am using choji oil which is the oil recommended for samurai sword maintenance.

[LewisM]

Whoops, brain fart! Yes, choji. Urushi was used on Arisaka rifles etc (my area), and Japanese enamels.

You CAN use clove oil (the stuff dentists use), as Choji contains clove oil anyway. Better to use the real deal though.

[OzStarGazer]

Maybe you can identify at least some characters here: http://quanonline.com/military/military_reference/japanese/signatures.html
or here http://meiboku.info/mei/index.htm for example. But a forum is better, as PHC said, because character by character identification can be tiresome.
It looks like a fascinating sword. :)

[alistairsam]

I asked a Japanese colleague of mine, she said its Chinese, something to do with a king, she couldn't say much else.

Hope someone else can translate it.

Cheers
Alistair

[OzStarGazer]

Well, then now we have to change the subject of the thread so that somebody can help us... :)

[LewisM]

Throw it here - the guys will rip it apart for you and tell you if genuine or not.

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?52-Firearms-Of-The-Rising-Sun

MANY Japanese speakers/culturals there.

Be prepared though - a LOT of VERY good Chinese reproductions are around these days, so don't hold hopes too high. Iam not saying it is a fake, but as I said, the Chinese have got exceptionally good, to even replicate the damascus blade rather well!!!

[traveller]

Send a PM to Mill (Martin) as he knows his Japanese swords.
I can read some Chinese, the inscription is in three parts, the first 3 characters (read from tip of sword to the hilt) is in Kanji (Chinese characters) and almost certainly is the surname of someone, the second set of two characters are Japanese. I can only assume this is the given name of the first three characters (Asian names go by Surname-Given name)
The final character is in Kanji, meaning "work" or "craft".
Putting it all together, it could mean the name of the swordmaster who made the blade, or even the name of the workshop where the blade is made.
Asian cultures place a lot of value of master craftsman who makes such blades, but I am not sure how common it is for the craftsman to make such a large name inscription on the blade.
That plus the ornate nature of the sheath and hilt would suggest this is more a ceremonial sword and not a "combat" sword.
The other clue is that most combat swords would have the cutting edge only made in Damascus steel as it would be quite expensive to make the entire sword of the same material. It would be simpler and cheaper to make a carbon steel casing around a Damascus steel core with the cutting edge polished.
Others may know more, but this is purely from my understanding of the Chinese and Japanese cultures.
Bo

[alistairsam]

This is what I got from a chinese friend, not sure how accurate though and the extra characters

Google 日本史天元韦及卫剑

Japanese history and Wei Wei Jian Tianyuan” according to google translate
but as Lewis said, the other forum might get you something more accurate.

[Larryp]

My chinese wife and step-son cannot read it. My stepson feels it may be calligraphy.

[johnnyt123]

I have just signed up with the site recommended by Lewis.
Awaiting activation of account.

Seems like we are still torn between being possibly Chinese or Japanese...

I might just take the sword to a sushi train and ask someone to translate it for me.........and eat some sushi of course....:)

And you are right Bo. It is a ceremonial sword. But still quite sharp....
And I definitely wouldn't butter my bread with it....:P

[Regulus]

That's the reply from my nephew in Japan. It is either a very old sword or its a replica of quality with attention to detail
U may need a student of classical Japanese
Trevor

[johnnyt123]

So we can say that it is Japanese then....
Now i just need to try and determine the authenticity.

It may still be a very good Chinese reproduction...
Either way it is my sword, it's beautiful and I am going to love it and look after it.

Thanks for the update Trevor. Much appreciated.

John.

[rcheshire]

A Japanese colleague provided the following general meaning/intent of each symbol, reading Left to Right.

History

Sky (God/Universe) - to that effect

Origin

Youngest Child (end of era/last in sequence)

Extending influence to...

Procedure (no heart, mind) manufacture/engineer

I guess the interpetation is left to the imagination.