Lightroom + DPP + Fuji X Series

[rogerg]

Hi all,

Long time Canon DSLR user struggling with Fuji X series RAW.

That's the headline, now read all about it. :)

I've long shot canon CR2 RAW and edited these in DPP and Photoshop. DPP shows me the canon RAW image exactly as shot in-camera, and I can then tweak the RAW if required or just send it straight through to Photoshop.

Now zoom forward in time to present day with my new Fuji X-E2 camera and the new (to me) world of Fuji ......

The camera doesn't seem to come with a DPP equivalent, and the best option seemed to be to import the files using Lightroom.

The problem: When I import the files in Lightroom they seem to be "reset" to a standard profile. For example, I shot the images in B&W, Velvia, and Standard settings in-camera but when put in Lightroom the RAW files are all showing flat colour/default.

The question: Is there any way in lightroom or some other program, to do as I did in DPP and see the Fuji raw files on PC as they were intended/shot in-camera and then proceed with manipulation?

I have found in Lightroom I can manually change each picture back, one by one, to a Fuji profile by selecting a camera profile for Velvia, B&W, etc. But I seem to need to do this one by one for each picture after Lightroom has gone and reset them. I am using an up to date install of the most recent Lightroom 5.4

I'm essentially new to Lightroom. I used it a little a while back but gave up and went back to DPP.

Thanks for any assistance! :)

[White Rabbit]

In LR development tab, set one image to how you want it then highlight all the images in the folder (ctrl a) then press sync in the bottom righ of thr LR window this will apply the same setting to all th highlighted images. Similar to the copy/paste recipe in DDP.

Thanks
Sandy

[dannat]

Its the xtrans sensor which most programs have trouble dealing with,
DxO works well for me-if you go to fujix forum you can see what those guys are using

[CapturingTheNight]

As White Rabbit has said once you have developed one image in LR if you want to apply the same settings to other images, just select the ones you want and then click Sync (if you don't want to select all the images in the folder just hold down Ctrl and click the ones you want in the develop module film strip down the bottom).
As for raws importing without the in camera settings applied, as I understand it (and I could well be very wrong), that is exactly the point of raw files- to record all the data and then you have to process that data how you want. If you shoot in monochrome for example the camera is still recording a colour raw file. Only the display on the camera and a jpeg image (if you are shooting Raw + jpeg) is converted to mono.

[Octane]

That's pretty poor that they don't provide a native converter and editing suite.

I'd be lost without DPP!

H

[rogerg]

Thanks all,



I largely agree but coming from a 100% Canon world my perspective of RAWs was slightly different, perhaps best stated as “RAWs record all the data, able to be manipulated in any way, but by default show as profiled by the camera”. It’s that default that seems to be missing in the Fuji situation, that instead I need to ‘reconstruct’ the image I saw on-camera by applying a specific profile in Lightroom. Surely it's logical I would want to start editing a RAW from where the camera left it? With Canon I couldn't understand any reason at all to shoot JPG other than file size, however with this Fuji scenario I see that I need to shoot JPG if I want it as-shot-in-camera and using Fuji’s highly regarded algorithms, otherwise, I am relying on a 3rd party’s (adobe lightroom) rendition of that in-camera view, and having to apply that manually to each picture (perhaps via multi-seleciton as helpfully suggested by others here).

This seems to be a downfall in the Fuji workflow compared to Canon? Oh I know I know .. maybe I’m just a stick in the mud and need to work around to the Fuji way of working ;) .. but still .. Fuji is producing a wonderful in-camera image but not giving me the ability to utilise that with full RAW capability beyond the camera. :shrug:

I am looking forward to playing in lightroom when I get home, using tips learned here and seeing how I go :thumbsup:

[rogerg]

H,

They provide what I understand is a 3rd party piece of software, "fuji silkypix", but which is not regarded as producing good reditions of the RAW files. It seems people create custom profiles in silkypix to better represent what the fuji in-camera algorithms would produce. I only had a very quick play last night with silkypix and wasn't entirely impressed hence quickly moved to lightroom .... I need to play with silkypix some more to be able to assess it.

[gbeal]

Roger,
If I read your post correct, you are not seeing the B&W (for example) in LR when you import, even though the camera showed it after capture, correct?

The RAW is just that, RAW, no B&W, no Velvia, no nothing, just RAW. The image you saw in B&W is the JPEG.

Import the JPEG's as well into LR, or Photoshop. If LR, go to Preferences/Import Options, and check "Treat JPEG files next to RAW files as separate photos".

SilkyPix is OK, I use it plus LR, but if shooting astro I use SilkyPix to convert my RAW to a TIFF, and then into the likes of Images Plus for processing. I've yet to get DSS to play nicely with the X-Trans files.
Gary

[gregbradley]

Hi Roger,

I use Fuji cameras as well. LR 5.5 is the current up to date version. It has the Fuji film emulations in it.

I use PhotoNinja as it has the best RAW converter for Fuji. Irident is considered the best if you are using a Mac. Lightroom is one of the weakest although having said that its not that bad and they upped their algorithims about 6 months ago. Now they have added the Film emulations. LR is certainly quite good its just PhotoNinja is better.

Canon's program is free which is pretty unusual. Nikons you have to pay for (its quite a good program though) and Fuji is a smaller company in this field (big in lenses though - Hassalblad Medium format and TV lenses). So its 3rd part software unfortunately for the best.

I am not an expert on the various ways of setting up LR but its pretty good program overall once you get to use it a lot. I think you have to setup your custom settings for how each image is developed as it is imported into the program. Adobe have lots of tutorials on LR so I suggest watching a few of those to see how its done but you can see the menu items when in Library mode on the right side of the program.

Silky Pix converts RAWs quite well also but its not a popular interface.

I like PhotoNinja and the way it handles. Its quite simple and easy to understand. LR is a bit more comprehensive in its processing suite and its various tools. The noise reduction for example is the best of any program including Photoshop.

So persist with it and you'll get what you want. I have found importing RAWs they do look like what in camera shot so there are probably settings you need to click on so it is setup the way you want it to. LR is a bit of a world like Photoshop is. Fortunately its largely intuitive. It took me quite a while just to get LR to import images and display them as thumbnails!

The XE2 will be a nice complement to your Canon gear. You will find it is quite low noise at ISO3200-6400 and because it does not have an AA filter it is generally very sharp.

Fuji in camera jpegs are considered by many to be the best out there.

The lenses are right up there and getting even better. Much better than the similar offerings by other makers for the same price. They are all metal for one thing, almost all have aperture rings and a manual focus ring. AF is not as good as DSLRs still but certainly workable (not that you are likely to be using AF in nightscapes).

Greg.

[rogerg]

That is correct.



And this is where canon RAWs seem to differentiate from other manufacturers that while they are raw in the sense of 14bit raw uncompressed data they also contain metadata to describe to DPP how they should appear as though they were shot JPG in-camera. This seems to me to be a significant advantage.



Thanks for the tip :thumbsup:



Yeap, got that now, thanks.



I hadn't heard of PhotoNinja, I'll give it a look :thumbsup: ... but may also just stick with Lightroom as I have it already ;)



Interesting. I'm glad I am appreciating the Canon way of doing things all of a sudden since getting the Fuji :)



Yes, persistence is key ... I'm not always good at persistence, putting it down to me "not having time" to mess around more than I have to. I am quite sure though that there is no way for LR to import the raws with fuji settings applied as per in-camera. Perhaps you usually use one setting on the fuji (Velva for example) and your import default for LR is the same for the fuji.



Yes, I have long wanted a Fuji like this and am glad to now have one but with this RAW issue am having a tough time convincing myself to use the Fuji as much as I expected to. I haven't tried the XE2 for astronomy yet, but hope to this week. It was bought for other types of photography where I don't feel comfortable confronting people with a big DSLR, or where I want something smaller to be more portable.



Yes and if my RAW problems persist I may just use JPG for a while until I find a need to go RAW for the type of photography I use the Fuji for. Although going JPG goes against every vein in my canon body.



Yes, I have only the one lens, the pancake 27mm f/2.8 and it's excellent. No plans to buy any other Fuji lenses at this stage but wait and see how the camera gets used :)

[gregbradley]

You can also do RAW conversions in camera as well.

A lot use Fuji's with the jpeg output because often the jpegs are so good its somewhat unnecessary to use RAW. Its an advantage of mirrorless that what you see is what you get in the EVF. So you tend not to take several shots to get the one. You more adjust whilst looking through the evf to get what you want then take the shot and then that's it.

The level is handy for astro nightscapes. My typical nightscape Fuji settings are:

ISO6400, noise reductions off, Velvia, auto white balance, 30 seconds, F2.8, 14mm or 18mm. Fuji overstates their ISOs. ISO6400 is more like ISO4000 on a more honest camera. Still the white balance engine and the jpeg engines are the best I have seen and the camera is very low noise for an APSc sized sensor. Last I checked these 16mp APSc sensors in the Fuji X series are the lowest high ISO cameras. Most of the competition is in a megapixel war so they are often 24mp which is really pushing the physics of small pixels/noise.
16mp seems a sweet spot for APSc but 24mp is probably coming in Sept (they follow Sony).
But for nightscapes/astro I would definitely use RAW. I have taken up to 15 minute subs on a Polarie on an XE1 and the wonderful 14mm F2.8 lens. Fuji now has a 10-24mm lens that may be even better than the 14mm (widerfield which is rare these days).

The zoom 18-55 is also very good at 18mm F2.8. I usually use the Fuji 14mm at F2.8 its a remarkable lens but there is a small area in the very corner that is not fully corrected. It can be cropped out.

Greg.