Lunt solar wedge 1.25"

[MortonH]

Yesterday I discovered that my old Kendrick solar filter had quite a few small holes in it, so I've just ordered the 1.25" Lunt solar wedge.

Interestingly, Luke at Andrews tells me that the ND3 filter is separate from the wedge and has to be screwed into the eyepiece, whereas all information on the Lunt website states that it is pre-installed in the wedge (which sounds a lot safer).

Can any owners of the 1.25" model confirm? Perhaps it's different in the 2" model?

I guess I'll find out for myself in a day or two.

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: Morton , don't worry I have a 1/14 inch Lunt wedge and they do indeed have the ND3 filter built in , Luke must have bad brain freeze because you NEED a polarizing filter that you screw into any given eyepiece .
Without it the image is bright , viewable but un-comfortable after no time you need a polarizing filter ! .
With the polarizing filter you can tone the image up and down by rotating the eyepiece in the diagonal , at the brightest with the PF its nice for granulation and at its darkest great for sunspots .

Views are way sharper than my old 1000 oaks and Kendrik full aperture filters .

Here is mine being used yesterday and the photos dont do what is seen with the eye justice .

Brian.

[MortonH]

Luke was pretty adamant that the ND filter is separate (and it says this on the Andrews website). He also confirmed that a polarising filter is part of the package as received from Lunt, something that isn't mentioned on any other websites. Perhaps the package has changed. I know Lunt aren't the best at updating their site.

What I'm hoping is that the ND filter can be installed into the eyepiece holder so that it never needs to be removed. But we will see.

[brian nordstrom]

:shrug: That's strange because the ND3 filter has to be built in , if you screw it into the eyepiece where do you put the palarizing filter ??
I recon Luke is wrong , because Lunt say their wedges have the ND3 filter built in 'Unlike the competitors' , their words .

Strange indeed Morton .

Try a google of the Solar observers 'Yahoo groups' website , that might clear it up because if Lunt suddenly decided to remove that filter and make it an extra at extra cost I guarantee there was a tide of complaints and moans there , I have not heard they made these an extra anywhere and I love my Lunt and have followed any mention of them on the web.

Brian.

[MortonH]

Thanks, Brian. I've been Googling but nothing suggests the ND filter is now separate. I'll wait till I get it and see what the story is.

[Larryp]

Hi Morton-Bintel's website says the ND filter is internal, and you can add a polarising filter to cut down photo-visual glare:)

[brian nordstrom]

Morton I just Googled 'Lunt 1,1/4 Hershell wedge' and the top of the first page is 'Lunt Solar Systems' .
On the left side , top is our Wedges and it states , quote ; ' The Lunt white light wedge comes with a built in ND3 filter which allows perfectly safe imaging or , if you wish to do visual observing of the sun we recommend dimming the image for your eyes with a polarizing filter'

Their words .

http://luntsolarsystems.com/blog/white-light-wedge

Brian.

[MortonH]

Hi Larry,

Yes, but it's pretty much a repeat of Lunt's own website, and they are known for not keeping specs up to date. Most other vendors' sites say the same thing, but the Andrews site goes into great detail on which order everything should be attached, so it seems the ND filter is not pre-installed, although it is included in the package with a polarising filter.

If the ND filter can't be installed 'permanently' into the eyepiece holder of the wedge, I might need to buy a 1.25" extension tube and attach the filters to that. I've read of others doing this with the polarising filter. The extension can be left in the wedge so that you don't need to switch filters around every time you change eyepiece.

[alocky]

A cautionary tale here. When I ordered a 1.25" solar wedge from Lunt it came without the ND3 installed. Fortunately I wasn't blinded as the glare from the eyepiece was so strong I barely caught a glimpse before pulling my eye away. When Lunt sent me a 'replacement' filter, it soon became obvious the design had changed, and there was no way to retrofit one and still be able to seat en eyepiece. I ended up changing over to a 2" unit. Don't take any risks here - if there is not a very dark piece of glass in the wedge, do not look through it!
Cheers,
Andrew.

[brian nordstrom]

:shrug: If this is true , why would Lunt remove the ND3 filter from the 1 1/4 unit and keep it in the 2 inch model ? .
They aint gonna sell many of the 1 1/4 units if that's the case ,, bad move on their part , utter stupidity ?.

Morton if the unit from Andrews does not have the ND3 filter installed , which I personally don't believe , send it back and ask for a refund as it does not perform as advertised and grab one from Bintel , they state theirs has the filter built in .

Brian.

[MortonH]

Thanks guys. I will let you know when I get it.

And I won't look through it until I'm sure!!!

[Kunama]

Hi Morton,
I also read the Andrews Comms spiel a few days ago as I have been considering the Lunt with a view to a shorter lightpath for solar binoviewing. I found it hard to believe they would design a solar wedge in such a way that the likelihood of an accident is far greater than their earlier model. If that is what they have done I would steer well clear of that particular item.

I have emailed Lunt to find out where the truth lies. I am still waiting for their reply.

I'll let you know when they reply.

Cheers
Matt

[MortonH]

Hi Matt,

I just sent the same question to them. I am considering cancelling my order depending on the response.

Cheers.

[brian nordstrom]

Good call Morton , I still cant believe they have changed it , we all await yours and Matt's replies from Lunt .
Brian.

[pw]

What's the bet Lunt don't answer, I'm still waiting for a response to my query from months ago. They don't seem to give a toss about end users.

[MortonH]

I just posted the question on the Lunt Yahoo Group. As a new member my post needs to be approved so I don't know when it'll appear.

[brian nordstrom]

:D I did the same thing , they will be impressed .
Brian.

[Kunama]

It would seem that the Andrews spiel is correct:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Number/4821370
Markus Ludes discussed the proposed change in 2011 to include the ND 3.0 in the wedge but the Pol or SC would be on the eyepiece.
Not sure if the design was changed. I think I will stick with the Baader Cool Ceramic.

[MortonH]

Good one, Brian :thumbsup:

On the APM website it says "you can screw the ND3 filter directly into the eyepiece connector".

Maybe they've changed the design to allow different ND filters to be used like the Baader version.

[MortonH]

Scratch that last comment. In the Baader version the ND3 filter is permanently installed.

[Kunama]

The real difference is that the Baader wedge allows both the SC and the OD3 ND to be permanently attached, making it very safe and easy to use. It, though, is only available in the 2" format and has quite a long optical path, about 10mm longer than the standard dielectric ClickLock.

[MortonH]

And is extremely expensive. If I had that much money I'd get a H- alpha scope.

Will talk to Andrews tomorrow to figure out which version they have (if it actually changed).

Thanks for the link, Matt.

[Kunama]

Point of interest:

There are several ways that these neutral density filters are identified and the filter in question is actually an ND 3.0 which not the same as an ND3. An ND3 filter allows 37.5% of light to pass while the correct ND 3.0 allows less than 1/10th of 1%. An enormous difference. So never substitute an ND4 for an ND 3.0 thinking it is darker, as it actually allows 256 times more light to pass than an ND 3.0.
In fact an ND1000 is the same optical density as an ND 3.0 !!!

To be perfectly pedantic, the filter we use should be identified as an ' Optical density 3.0 neutral density filter ' which has a % transmittance of 0.098%

I must be bored tonight ................

(You can use this at your next science trivia night )

[Joves]

Hmmm... I have the 1.25" Lunt Solar Wedge and it does have the ND3 filter installed. Interesting to read that you apparently MUST use a polarising or solar continuum filter at the eyepiece though. I purchased the Baader Solar Continuum with the wedge, but must admit, I have looked through the wedge without the filter attached. Was a very bright image, but I didn't feel it was damaging my eye. Pretty terrible to think that the instruction manual doesn't advise that you MUST use a secondary filter or permanent damage could occur. I'd be pretty disappointed if I go for an eye test and it is found that I have damaged my eyesight with absolutely no warning on something as potentially hazardous as a solar filter!

[Merlin66]

Aaron,
The recommended safe visual solar filtering level is ND3 (i.e. 1/1000 transmission)
Using the Herschel wedge with this level of filter will not cause eye damage.
However, the resulting image may still appear relatively bright and adding say a variable polarised filter or a Continuum filter (added contrast) may make viewing more comfortable.
Hope this helps.

[Kunama]

+1 .........
I find the SC also improves the amount of detail you see, but does give you a lime green image of the sun. If not using the SC, I usually add a ND 0.9 filter with the 3.0, I don't use the single polarizer.

[MortonH]

No reply from Lunt to my email and my message on the Yahoo forum hasn't been posted yet either...

[Merlin66]

Morton,
White light observing and Ha/ CaK observing of the sun are complimentary. They all show different facets of the solar disk.

[Kunama]

and the answer to the riddle is:

Hi Matt,
The Lunt Solar White Light Wedges do come with the ND3 filter
pre-installed inside the wedge assembly. You are able to see it when you
look into the eyepiece tube. We did in the very beginning sell some that did
not have the ND3 installed so that people could use them for nighttime work
but that was years ago. I would recommend asking the dealer double check it
is included by looking into the eyepiece tube for you.
With the ND3 filter pre-installed the Wedge is safe to image or visually
view thru but the image is a little bright. We recommend use a polarizing
filter on your eyepiece because you can then rotate your eyepiece and dim or
brighten the image. You can also use a moon filter or green filter. Please
let me know if you have any other questions.


Thank you,
Rikki Hocking
Lunt Solar Systems

[MortonH]

Thanks, Matt.

I've asked Andrews to open up the box and check exactly what is in there and how it fits together. Waiting to hear back from them...

[MortonH]

Update: checked my emails and I got the exact same response from Lunt.

Andrews just called me and confirmed that the ND filter is not pre-installed but the eyepiece tube unscrews and allows the ND filter to be installed inside it before being reattached to the wedge. So the end result is the same, it's just that it wasn't inserted before the wedge was shipped.

Am proceeding with the order.

[pw]

Well done on getting a definitive answer from the horses mouth.

[alocky]

I found Rikki at Lunt to be extremely helpful, and they certainly looked after me at the time. My understanding was that my experience was largely due to a change in manufacturer and was the only time it happened.
I went to the 2" mainly so I could hang a DSLR off it...
Cheers,
Andrew.

[MortonH]

I've certainly heard plenty of good things about their products but had no experience of their service. Mistakes can happen to anyone.

I was in two minds over the 1.25" or 2" models, but my little ZS66 will only take the smaller model, and I'm pretty much purely visual anyway. Can always get happy snaps by holding a compact to the eyepiece. :D

[Joves]

Thanks Merlin and Kunama, that's a relief.

I checked my 1.25" last night after reading this thread and the eyepiece tube unscrews from the diagonal! but the ND3 is permanently fixed to the bottom of it, so seems pretty safe to me if used as a whole assembly. If Andrews are selling them without an ND3 installed, which may not be the case by the way (I'm reading the last couple of replies in a couple of different ways), then I wonder the age of their stock?!

On a side note, completely agree that the SC filter provides nice surface detail. The lime green takes a little getting used to after viewing in Ha for awhile, but within very little time I seemed to look straight past that fact. All in all, they're a cracking little white light wedge!

[MortonH]

Good question. I have emailed Lunt again on this point

[MortonH]

Picked up the wedge from the post office yesterday. Unfortunately haven't had the chance to use it, so this is an update on the contents of the package.

The wedge itself came in its hard case, which itself was in a cardboard box with "filters required" hand written on the outside. In their own plastic cases were: (1) a Baader ND 3.0 filter, and (2) an Orion polarising filter. All items appear to be brand new and unused,

The eyepiece tube of the wedge unscrews easily and allows the ND filter to be screwed into the bottom before reattaching the tube to the wedge. There is a stop inside the tube that will prevent any eyepiece making contact with the ND filter from above. So the ND filter is now installed and need never be removed.

I haven't heard back from Lunt on my second query, i.e. is this possibly old stock? Andrews say they only received two units, which does make me wonder if these are older models for evaluation. This might also explain why the package includes a polarising filter and is still cheaper than elsewhere. I am holding off from using it until Lunt tell me what differences, if any, there may be between this one and current models sold by other dealers. If there is little or no difference my inclination at the moment is to keep this one.

[brian nordstrom]

:) Good news Morton , you will be impressed when you get to use it and being able to tune the brightness by turning the eyepiece with PF screwed in is a bonus , good luck and we await first light report .

Brian.

[MortonH]

Long awaited (but brief) first light just took place.

I used my William Optics ZS66 with Pentax XL 21mm, polariser and a very old Celestron no. 56 (light green) filter. If I'd been sitting on a chair I'd have fallen off it! A lot more detail than I expected. Just beautiful.

Changed the eyepiece to an Explore Scientific 82D 14mm and the view was even better.


A few minor ergonomic 'issues' that I found with my setup.
The XL 21mm has a rotating eyeguard that is very loose, so trying to rotate the whole eyepiece to adjust the polarisation was tricky.
You need to unscrew the filters and re-attach each time you change eyepiece.
These issues will be fixed by the inexpensive 1.25" extension tube I've already ordered from MyAstroShop. I will attach the filters to the extension tube so this will effectively become part of the wedge. Then swapping eyepieces is simple, and the extension tube itself can be rotated to change the polarisation level.

I noticed that Bintel and MAS both sell 1.25" extension tubes. The Bintel one is 35mm in length while the MAS one is 26mm. According to the scale on my scope's focuser, the focus point was around 28mm, so a 35mm extension would be too long.

Since the ZS66 sits happily on a camera tripod, I now have a lightweight and extremely portable solar setup. Very happy! :D

[mercedes_sl1970]

Hi Morton - sounds good. How does the view compare to, say Baader film or a white light glass filter?

Cheers

Andrew

[MortonH]

Hi Andrew,

My previous filter was made before Baader film I think. It may have been described as Mylar back in the day. I've never looked through Baader film or a glass filter.

What I'll say is that the views today were much better than my old filter. Everything is sharper, detail pops out and, in particular, surface detail is very obvious. For me, this is a huge improvement.

[mercedes_sl1970]

Thanks. Tempting...

Andrew

[brian nordstrom]

:) Hi Andrew , I have owned a 1000 oaks glass and Kendrik solar filters in the past and now have the Lunt wedge and I concur with Morton here , the detail seen is seen easier and is more contrasty , especially the sun spots at high powers 150x + .

The only thing I miss about the nice 1000 oaks glass filter is the lovely orange disc these give , looks more natural ? but the Kendrik showed more surface granulation .

Brian.

[MortonH]

Since I don't have the solar continuum filter I've been experimenting with a green #56 filter and an orange #21 filter. The orange shows almost as much surface detail as the green and gives the nice colour that many people expect (though the sun is actually white, of course!). For sunspots I prefer orange over green.

I reckon I may get the continuum filter at some point in the future.

[alocky]

I think the sun is actually yellow, being a G2V dwarf and all. But absolutely agree about the Lunt wedge, it shows far more surface detail through a 4" f15 achromat than I get through a 10" with a 1000 oaks glass front filter.
Cheers,
Andrew

[MortonH]

Having used the wedge a few times now I am very pleased with it. Performance in my little ZS66 is excellent. It helps that there are plenty of sunspots around just now!

The other day I was viewing from my balcony around 15 minutes before sunset. A small plane flew across the sun and gave a spectacular silhouette. I even saw the head of the pilot as the sun shone through the windows. A few minutes later a flock of birds in the distance flew across as well. Nothing scientific about these "observations" but they were very nice!

[mercedes_sl1970]

Sounds like you are having fun!

[MortonH]

Yup! Just want a good zoom lens to complete the package. :)