Street Light

[toetoe]

This new street light is becoming a real pain at the side of my house. I`m thinking of stringing up my blue tarp like a tennis net in the yard to give me a shadow. Any help or other tips on my problem would be welcolmed.

[ving]

that'd work.
you could also try emailing your local council. thry might be able to put something up thats not illuminating your yard.

[Vermin]

Aiming a cheap red laser pointer at the daylight sensor is supposed to turn it off.

[toetoe]

Ring the council i may have to, do if me tarp dosn`t work.
I can get a laser but i don`t see a sensor tho.

[Starkler]

I have seen this advice before, though I dont know I would want to be liable to any litigation should any accident or crime occur near that streetlight.

A light shield such as a tarp or this (http://www.cloudynights.com/howtos2/shield.htm) would be the simplest solution.
If its a new light I doubt you'll get any cooperation from the council but it might be worth a try.

[Striker]

Be careful using the laser as Starkler has suggested...speak to council if that doesn't work........I suggest...

[toetoe]

I like that idea Geoff, but i think i could get my tarp up a lot higher than the screen.
I think i will give the laser a miss tho.

[rumples riot]

Contact the council and put forward this argument in a civl manner. Remind them that they are supposed to comply with the Light emission requirements set down in legislation. That under such legislation they are required to supply and install shielding that will direct the light onto the ground around the pole and street. That as it stands is a breach of your right to quiet enjoyment of your property (rented or owned makes no difference). Such a shield will reduce you LP by nearly half. I would even offer to pay half for the shielding as a token of good faith. If they refuse contact your local member of parliment and explain the situation and why you want it sorted. They will try and help.

Just remember, not to get angry with anyone you speak to, they will be less likely to help if they think that you are an angry individual. Do not use a laser or any other implement to damage the light or its sensor. You could be charged with malicious damage or criminal conduct. Both incur heavy fines and provide a criminal conviction and or jail time.

Good luck with your crusade.

[toetoe]

Thanks Paul.
My Mrs was reading your post over my shoulder and said "there you go, talk to the council" scared the crappa out of me, didn`t know she was there. Looks like she may be showing a bit more intrest into my hobby. :)
I will talk to them and i am sure things will work out, the tarp will do for now, I just bought some nylong string stuff to tie it up with so i better go do it now as i gotta go to work at 3pm and finish at 8pm, a bit too dark to go playing around with step ladders all tho the street light will help. :)

[rumples riot]

Just remember "great truths come from powerful arguments." Blackstone CJ 1861. "Walk quietly but carry a big stick" Teddy Roosavelt American President 1901.

[Starkler]

Paul do you have any info or references to this legislation?
If so I would to apply it considering im afflicted by about half a dozen street lights.

[Astroman]

The Astronomical Society has a little page on light pollution, may give you some ideas.

http://www.assa.org.au/lightpollution/

http://www.assa.org.au/lightpollution/resources.asp This link may give you some more ideas.

I have a streetlight right on the side of my yard and directs light straight onto our property, it's called light trespassing. I was going to do something about it a while ago but didn't, I fear now though that it may be too late for me it has been there for 8 years.

[rumples riot]

Let me go off and do some research on the specific Act and I will get back with the right provisions and the regulations, and perhaps which treaty we are a signatory to.

[Astroman]

I know Martin Lewicki of ASSA has done some research, not sure if he can help or not.

[toetoe]

Nice input guys,
pls keep us all informed, after 8 years that might be a bit tough to do something about. Mylight is onlt about 3 weeks old as they are continuing the road across a creek with a new bridge as well. The sooner i talk to the council the better.

[Starkler]

I have emailed a Mr Clarke of the A.S.V. who has written a detailed paper (http://www.asv.org.au/lpoll/lpdoc.htm) on light pollution issues, asking for advice.
Hopefully he will know where I can find a big stick :)

[Starkler]

I have received a very comprehensive and helpful reply from Mr Clarke. I'm now awaiting his permission to quote him in here as I'm sure what he had to say would be of great interest to many of our members.

[[1ponders]]

Peter most of the information you need is in the Australian Standard AS 4282 "Control of the obtrusive effects of Outdoor lighting."

Let me know how you go with your council. Mine said sure they were happy to put up a shade if:
1. I got everyone else in the street to sign saying they didn't mind the light being covered
2. I was prepared to wear the full cost of having the shade installed.

Which I promptly laughed at, then quoted the Aust Standard. The response? "I'm sorry the person you need to speak to is not in the office at the moment. Could you ring back at a later time?"

And so the battle begins.:D

[toetoe]

I am trying to think of someone who i know who knows someone in the council, that may help a bit perhaps. I will do this the right way but not until i have a few cards up my sleeve that i can play one by one with. It is a real p...off when you know what your talking about with someone then they back off passing the buck onto another person as you mentioned Paul.

[Starkler]

Mr Clarke has given me permission to quote his email with some edits in capitals.

This applies in Victoria and I don't know how much is applicable in other states.

------------------------------------------------------------------

There are moves afoot to apply legal constraints to light pollution and light trespass in Victoria, but don't hold your breath. The present situation isn't much of a vote loser so it is unlikely that much will change until the US and UK are visibly further down the track. Meanwhile the VICTORIAN government keeps patting itself on the back about the growing economy. This includes a 4% or more annual increase in lighting expenditure by local councils across Victoria, way above the Kyoto growth rate for Australia. It is not sustainable, but the government really doesn't wish to know that.

The Australian Standard (1158) that governs street lighting is currently being revised. I UNDERSTAND THAT most of the committee members involved are from the lighting industry, and have AN INTEREST in more and brighter lighting. DOUBTLESS
OTHERS AS WELL AS MYSELF have advised them that it is light emitted just above the horizontal that causes most skyglow problems. Fixing this by using full cutoff (FCO) fittings also goes a long way to fixing the problems of streetlight glare and light trespass, but the attitudes against change are like a rock in a hard place.

Anyway, to answer your question, the VICTORIAN ENVIRONMENT PROTECTION AUTHORITY has advised that local councils have the power and responsibility to control lighting nuisance, despite the absence of specific regulations in most council areas. If there is any argument about the regulatory framework for doing this, government bodies DO have a responsibility to apply and uphold Australian Standards.

Unfortunately, vested interests ensured that AS 4282-1997, 'Control of the obtrusive effects of outdoor lighting', specifically excludes street lighting and advertising lighting from its requirements.

Regardless, 4282 does give light trespass maxima that are reasonable and achievable, and I have argued with some success that its requirements should apply in the absence of any other constraints.

In general, councils will put shields on streetlights, even if it does require repeated requests. Sometimes they charge as much as $75 per fitting for shields. At other times and places, the fitting is free, which is how it should be in my view.

The new energy efficient streetlights now being trialed IN VICTORIA offer little hope for improvement because virtually the whole industry SEEMS TO BE unconcerned OR UNEDUCATED about waste light.

In the US, the number of FCO cobra heads being manufactured well exceeds the number of semi cutoff (SCO) cobra heads. Yet Australian councils seem to be unaware of the change, or they claim that FCO fittings aren't available.
However, they are fitted on the Tullamarine and Calder freeways near Essendon airport, and elsewhere, and are clearly superior in the low-glare visibilty they provide.

Try talking to your council's environmental/health/greenhouse officers.

Please get back to me if you succeed or get nowhere. I have a big stack of literature that can be used/adapted for trying to get councils to see their own bad practices.

Barry Clark

PS LP14 is a bit out of date. LP140 is also on the ASV website and is more up to date about lighting laws and regulations, AND IT HAS SOME OTHER INFORMATION THAT LP CAMPAIGNERS MIGHT BE ABLE TO USE AS WELL.

[toetoe]

Thats good reading Geoff,
As soon i start the battle (which i think it will end up being) i will keep posting my updates on here as it may come in handy for others in the future..

[Starkler]

Round 1 with City of Casey:

After a discussion with a Traffic management officer who has responsibility for public lighting I was told their position is that the lighting is 'doing what it is designed to do', and they cannot (or will not) help me.

I asked who I could escalate the issue to within council and was told I could write to the traffic management dpt. Hmmm.

I called council again with the hypothetical issue of nuisance from a neighbours floodlight. I was told that it was a civil issue, not covered by By-laws or health and out of the hands of council.

Not looking good. I need a big stick.

[ballaratdragons]

Peter,

Not good about the street light.

We had 4 streetlights in our whole town.
After suspecting that it seems there are more lately, I finally got to do a drive around our little town and have discovered that over the last 2-3 weeks they have fitted more. We now have 16!

Not a big deal for city people but it is a big deal when you live in a dark spot.

I think it is going to get worse as this town is developing. (nearly time to move a bit further west)

[ving]

or a slingshot...

keep up the fight guys.
councils are a lazy bunch, they are probably just trying to avoid paperwork

[Starkler]

As this is a serious issue im going to be deleting any posts that arent directly helpful or pertinent.

[gaa_ian]

"Full cut off" or "Aeroscreen" fittings are (now) widely used in Qld by the local & state authorities.
Part of my professional role is lighting design & standards.
It costs little or no more to use Aeroscreen light fittings.
They reduce glare for motorists, thus improving safety & reduce light intrusion.
These points are noted in both AS1158 & AS4282, these provisions need to be bought to the attention of the local councils & in particular to their lighting designers.
The "Astronomical Socity Australia" is on the committee for "AS 4282", getting representation to that committee member is one way we can, as a group, drive change in this area.
Change is possible ... if we act to drive change :D

[Starkler]

Hey Ian,

This is a pic of the light type that is causing me grief.
The light is pretty much omnidirectional with as much projected horizontally as downwards.
Are shields available for this type of light ? or maybe the non existance of such could be the cause of councils reluctance to help me.

[xstream]

Peter,
I don't like your chances with the council. The local society has a committee for obtrusive lighting and has had lengthy meetings with both councils and to this stage they both stand on the arguement that, if it stands in the way of progress they are not interested, typical bureaucracy!
If you wish to pursue the matter I'll give you the right contacts when you contact me.

[[1ponders]]

That's pretty much the same type of streetlight that bugs me Geoff. Oh and the tennis courts next door.

[gaa_ian]

Hi Starkler
Our HV Crew usually paint the house facing side of offending light fitting with a light blocking paint, there is little cost in doing this !
A more appropriate (Aeroscreen) fitting that I have specified for our town lighting upgrade is shown here.

[ballaratdragons]

This is what I did with the light outside my property!

I painted the side toward the house in black paint. I hope you can see it. Lousy picture.

[gaa_ian]

This link from the ASV site may also be helpful in our collective battle to "Reclaim the night Sky"
http://www.asv.org.au/lpoll/lpdoc.htm

[Astroman]

Here is a pic of my offending streetlight, as you can see not quite full cut off, it's amber in colour too.

http://www.theastroweb.com/astronomy/temp/streetlight.jpg

sorry about the res of the image, not that high :(

[ving]

gee I hope you dont get into trouble for that ken. as much as council can make your skies lousy that dont like having thier property defaced.

does it work ok?

[ballaratdragons]

Yes David, since I put the second coat on it works excellent.

You are right, the council would not be happy.

The diagram below shows how the painted area does not affect the road, nature strip or footpath area. The red section is the only blocked out area.

<b>SPECIAL NOTE:</b> This is probably not a good idea to try in the suburbs!! I am in a small country town and my neighbour agreed to me doing it.

[Starkler]

Update:

I was surprised to get a call from them the next day after thinking I was being rejected out of hand.

The officer that I spoke to did some chasing up and asking around and mentioned no I couldnt persue it on health grounds (which I didnt ask). He also indicated that my request was unique.
I was asked what my expectation was regarding who would wear the costs, which I didnt give a firm answer to.

The upshot of his call was to invite me to put my complaint in writing to the council and now Im a little bit unsure how to proceed.
On the one hand I am possibly more likely to get cooperation If I make an offer to pay or to share costs. The light worst afecting me is in the street beind my rear neighbor, so there is a property between myself and the offending light. It may be hard for me to argue on light tresspass issues considering that distance.
If I mention Australian standards here I'll likely find if they drag the rule book out that they are complying considering the distance involved.

From my perspective the problem is that the bulb of the offending lights are directly visible, ruining any chance of achieving dark adaptation from my backyard.

Any helpful suggestions are most appreciated.

[ballaratdragons]

Geoff,

Is it possible to put a permanent or temporary screen on top of your back fence to block the light from the property behind?

[Astroman]

Maybe we can hire some of these people they seem to know what they are doing. http://www.amasci.com/weird/unusual/sli.html

:D

[ballaratdragons]

I saw a documentary on Discovery channel about a month ago showing people do this.

They walk near a light pole and the light goes out. They walk away and it comes on again. Weird!!

It was a scientific test and no fakery was used. It just happens with some people.

[Astroman]

I just went out and watched the lights come on down the street, they came on at different intervals. So my guess is 1. they all have a different setting on a timer or 2. they all have seperate light sensors at different settings. I am going to try high intensity Flash to see if that will trigger it, if not I will shine a 1000w studio lamp in the genral direction for a minute or so. if not I will go park my car down the road and shine my lights on it (highbeam) and see if that does anything. Will be interesting to see if they trigger.

All else fails I will walk under it.

[ballaratdragons]

Just a suggestion, but remember, I never told you this:

A Paintball gun would be a quick and effective way of treating nuisance lights, and you could probably do it from your own back yard!!

And as long as you shoot from the nuisance angle you won't affect the light shining on the road where it is needed!

I didn't tell you this.

[iceman]

:lol2: made me chuckle.

At least you're getting somewhere Geoff, if it really bothers you i'd offer to pay half the costs, but I guess that depends on whether it's $50 or $250. But yeh, can't you also erect a screen on your back fence to block it out?

[Astroman]

Just as an experiment I tried all of what I said before, nothing worked, might have to give the paint ball a go hehe. Walking under it did nothing except make the neighbours outside light turn on, I haven't ran back home that quick in all my life. :D I errected a big sail out of a tarp and a few bits of aluminium, but the wind picked up and it came crashing down while I was observing, scarred the %$%( out of me.

Back to the drawing board.

[acropolite]

Forget the local council clerks, work on the councillors. Councillors and pollies don't like pressure. Why not try getting a few of your like minded astro types and put your case to your local councillors at their next meeting. I have seen councils and even the Tasmanian state government buckle and allow the most rediculous things simply because of lobbying by small pressure groups. It's also a sad fact of life that if you are "well heeled" or someone of prominence in the community that the task will be easier. It also helps if you can get the local media on side.

[Starkler]

I have six foot high fence and a screen to block that light would be another six feet above that. Im pretty sure if I attached something like that to the fence that the neighbor would complain.

[ballaratdragons]

Make it a temporary thing Geoff. Hinge it to the top of the fence. Lift it up when viewing, fold it down when finished.

[ballaratdragons]

Actually, come to think of it, how come we have spent 3 pages talking about blocking out or changing street-lights in the Computer section?

It is an important conversation but why in computers?

[janoskiss]

Good point Ken!

There are letters from readers in the latest AS&T about street light problems and solutions (including "letter of the month" or something like that).

Edit: On closer look, the topic fits under "discuss ... observing tips and techniques". It's the best place for it under the current layout.

[iceman]

Tips, Techniques, Software and Computers.. It's about observing tips and techniques, so as Steve says it's in the right spot.. It doesn't belong under General chat..

Ken makes a good point though Geoff, about hinging your shield and errecting it only when observing.

[gaa_ian]

A very effective & cheap light screen is the
"Weed Mat" that you can buy from your local hardware.
It is a black poly tarp type material, just make sure you use a hot knife, or flame to seal the edges where you cut it.
It comes on a roll so you can buy whatever length you need.
We use it often when we have an observing night in town.

[ving]

not to mention that hey are vote hungry. its amazing what they'll do for votes. try around election time

[Starkler]

I think that is the best solution for my particular circumstance.
Thanks for that Ken.

I hope others who want to take on their council will keep us all informed of progress.

[RAJAH235]

Mike, In the thread,"general astro/space+astro, under "Who is protecting your night sky", Silvie stated that she could get some postcards printed as per my sample. Is this still on? It may be the 1st thing to try with the local councils. How many do you think we'd need & how much are they going to cost?
I have contacted Reg Wilson (IDA), but he is away at present. Will contact me when he returns later in week.
Also contacted Ken Petersen of SOLIS. No answer as yet.
I hope to get info. on how to approach the local councils etc etc.
Will keep all informed as to progress. :thumbsup: L.

[MiG]

Be careful with the paintball method. You probably think of paintball gun as a slightly dangerous toy, but the law is pretty strict about them (in Victoria). To the best of my knowledge, legally they're much like a real gun.