ppmcentre Front End - Call for Beta Testers

[Hitchhiker]

Here is the beta version of a front end for ppmcentre. Note that this front end only provides a visual interface to ppmcentre - all the real work is done by ppmcentre.

For those who don't know, ppmcentre is a DOS based program, developed by Anthony Wesley (bird), that takes a bitmap image of a planet and centres the image of the planet in the frame. Ppmcentre can do a few other things, too, most notably cropping the image from full size to a more manageable size.

According to bird and Mike (FWIW, I agree), Registax will do a better job on an image where the planet is centred in the image, and, the smaller the size of the file, the quicker Registax will process.

Bird's documentation for ppmcentre can be found here:
http://acquerra.com.au/astro/software/ppmcentre/

I'm looking for volunteers to beta test this front end. PCFE can be downloaded here:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/uploads/PCFE V1.0.0.zip

Unzip the file in the directory of your choice. Double click on the file called Setup.exe. PCFE will be installed on your computer along with all other files needed (including the latest version of ppmcentre). You can find PCFE under Programs|Planetary Tools on your Start Menu.

When you start PCFE you will see two tabs. The Folders Tab allows you to add folders for processing by ppmcentre. Press the Add Folders... button to open a dialog. Make sure the folder you want to select is open (open folder icon) before you press Add. If you make a mistake you can press the Clear button on the Folders tab. Alternatively, you can drag and drop folders from Windows Explorer (I find this easiest)

Click on the ppmcentre tab to adjust the ppmcentre switches. Holding your mouse over the various components will reveal a tool tip with some helpful advice on the purpose of each parameter (from birds ppmcentre instructions). Adjust these parameters to your hearts content, but be aware that I have placed some restrictions on these parameters that seemed sensible - eg CutX and CutY have to be smaller than Width and Height, the size parameters all have to be even and increments of 4 (as per birds instructions). PCFE will pass through the parameters you select - if you select parameters that don't make sense (eg Threshold = 0) then ppmcentre will report an error and return (unless you have selected the Force Process switch). PCFE starts with some vanilla flavour defaults - when you change one of the parameters, you are given the option to save these values as the new defaults, either when you move off the ppmcentre tab or by clicking on the 'Save ppmcentre options' on the File menu.
When you are ready to process your files, click on the Process button. PCFE will open a DOS window and run ppmcentre on the directories you chose with the parameters you selected.

I strongly suggest you read bird's documentation before using PCFE - probably a good idea to read the documentation while you have PCFE open and the ppmcentre tab selected. There are many more functions in ppmcentre that are not supported by PCFE, so you only need to read about the supported switches.

[[1ponders]]

I'm game :P

Is the next step linking this with RGBsplit :prey: and then Virtual Dub :prey::prey:

[Hitchhiker]

Linking with RGBSplit - yes!

Virtual Dub - I've heard of it - what does it do? (anything like DP's Bink & Smacker?)

[[1ponders]]

Yes same sort of thing. I haven't used Bink and Smacker as I found VD so easy to use.
http://www.virtualdub.org/

[matt]

Yep. I'm in. Already downloaded and ready to go!

Now all I need is some clear skies and good seeing to capture some top-quality avi's

Like that idea of linking it with RGBSplit.:thumbsup:

[[1ponders]]

You can download the code for VD here (http://virtualdub.sourceforge.net/)

[Hitchhiker]

Thanks Paul, I'll have a look at that. My (probably limited) understanding is that the avi format is pretty simple (except if there's some fancy compression).

Further down the track I'll probably want to have a look at a small avi from one of you guys. Envisage doesn't capture as an avi - just a series of bitmaps, so I don't have to worry about splitting avis. This will only be after integrating RGBSplit and ppmcentre, though.

[Robert_T]

I'd love to Adam, but you know since I'm now a total DOS Command line guru and all ...:P

OK the truth comes out, really I would love to, but I'm off on hols today with the family for a week and I'm forbidden to bring a laptop or anything astronomy related... it's like she thinks I have a problem or something:D

Anyway, with Paul, Matt and a few other on the case I'll be looking forward to the finished product on my return. As Paul says if you ca link with Virtual DUb that wuld be great. Virtual Dub is excellent, very easy to use and you can batch up AVI's to convert to BMP.

On that subject, I wonder is after running ppm centre it would be possible to convert the BMP's back into avi without compression. I certainly find it a lot easier to work with a single file than 1000+:shrug:

cheers,

[iceman]

Rob after running ppmcentre, you want to run RGBSplit, so you still need them as BMP's.

I don't see how 1000+ BMP's is any more difficult? I think it's great to be able to look at the individual frames and see the quality of them. You can simply press ctrl-A in the directory, and drag them into registax.

I used both PCFE and RGBSplit on the colour ToUcam avi's from the 28th, that I posted yesterday. They both work great!

[[1ponders]]

Both work like a treat for me as well. I just need to get some decent images to use them on :lol:

[Robert_T]

Mike, I use RGB split too which is great. What I had in mind was to convert the split BMPs into avis. I do find it a bit of a pain (Not major just a niggle) that I can't open the BMP's from registax but have to open up explorer and drag and drop.

[Hitchhiker]

I almost gave up on PCFE when I saw you had mastered the dark art of the command line! :fight:

Oh well, maybe someone else will use it!:P

I'm quite happy using the command line. I was actually one of those guys who was reluctant to go from DOS to Windows :whistle: . But, now I have PCFE, I doubt that I will ever use ppmcentre at the command line again. It is just so much more convenient to use a GUI. The whole idea of PCFE was to give users who did not want to use the command line a chance to use bird's fine software.

I did a 'proof of concept' app with integrated ppmcentre and RGBSplit last night and that worked perfectly (well, not perfectly but pretty close!). This would allow you to select your folders, press Process and then ppmcentre will run, followed by RGBSplit on the centred bitmaps. This would save a little more time and effort in the usual planetary processing run.

Sorry to keep hitting you guys with new apps every other week but the intention was to put a RGB splitting app and a ppmcentre GUI front end in users hands as soon as possible.

On the subject of avis (converting from/converting to), I'll have a look at this once the integrated application is done - whether I can do the conversion myself or get another app to do it. No promises, of course!

[[1ponders]]

As far as Virt Dub goes, really all is needed is the convert avi to bmp, none of the other fancy gear is needed anyway, so that may simplify it a bit/cd where/the_hell/didI/put_that/folder :P

[[1ponders]]

There is something you might want to look at Adam. If the min pixel size is 250 you can't imput 250, but you can use any pixel number less than that, eg 248, 230, etc

[Hitchhiker]

Hi Paul, a couple of things - first, you are referring to the Min Pixels: setting?

When you say you are inputting values, do you mean by typing in a new value, or by clicking on the up and down arrows?

The range for the Min Pixels: value is 0 to 500 so you should be able to get any value in between.

I don't think I have clearly understood what the problem is - bear with me! :D

A bit of background:

All the values that use up down controls (or spin buttons, if you prefer) are locked for edit - you should not be able to enter a value in the box. The only way to change one of these values is to click on the up arrow or down arrow. The Min Pixels: setting should go up by one each time you click the up arrow and down by one each time you click the down arrow.

The width/height/cutX/cutY settings are a little different - they are incremented by 4 or decremented by 4 depending on which arrow you click. This is in line with birds instructions that these values should be even and preferably divisible by 4. Also these 4 controls are tied together in that you can't make cutX bigger than the width, or cutY bigger than the height etc.

[[1ponders]]

That's alright, neither do I :P If I set the Min Pixels at 250 does this mean the smallest CutX/CutYis the Min Pixel size?

See attached??

[Hitchhiker]

Min Pixels is the minimum number of pixels with values over the threshold before the file is processed. ppmcentre obviously counts how many pixels in the image have a value greater than the threshold - if Min Pixels is set to 250, there must be at least 250 pixels in the image over the threshold for ppmcentre to recognise that there is an object in the image.

I have always used a Min Pixels value of 250 for images of Mars, Jupiter and Saturn and never had a problem, so I think 250 is a good default (and ppmcentre uses 250 as a default if you don't specify anything). The only case where you might use a lower value for Min Pixels is if you have an image of a small object, for example, Uranus - I think Mike had to use a Min Pixels of 80 (ie at least 80 pixels over the threshold) to get ppmcentre to process his Uranus images.



Min Pixels bears no relationship to width, height, cutX, and cutY - these are all parameters that affect the physical size of the output file and the 'cutout' around the planet. My advice, FWIW, is to leave Min Pixels at 250 unless your imaging Uranus, Neptune or some other tiny object. Read Min Pixels as 'the minimum number of pixels over the threshold for the file to be processed'.

The Width parameter determines the width of the output file, the Height parameter determines the height of the output file. For example, say you have a set of Jupiter bitmaps at 640 pixels wide by 480 pixels high - you set your Width parameter to 400, and your height parameter to 400 and run ppmcentre. You will end up with bitmaps that are 400 pixels wide by 400 pixels high (and the planet centred).

Now for CutX and CutY. After ppmcentre has located the object of interest in the frame it needs to 'cut out' the planet and centre it in the frame. CutX determines the width of this cutout and CutY the height of the cutout. In my processing I never used CutX and CutY - only Width and Height, but it is included because others use it (note that, even though I never specified CutX and CutY, a default value of 360 is applied). A situation I can think of where you would be concerned about CutX and CutY is where you have some Jovian moons that you want to make sure are included in the output frames - you would need to make sure that the 'cutout' (CutX by CutY) is big enough to include the moons. I just make sure CutX and CutY are slightly smaller than Width and Height.

Sorry for the long winded post. Hope this helps!:P

[[1ponders]]

Thanks for that Adam. Just what I needed. An explanation I could understand ;) :P

[Hitchhiker]

No worries, Paul! :thumbsup:

I've just realised that, because Min Pixels is placed straight under CutX and CutY that users might think that there is some relationship between them.

[davidpretorius]

got two vids during a sucker hole, lets see how this goes.....

[davidpretorius]

worked a treat!!!
can we have 480px width and height?

[iceman]

You can set it yourself, Dave!

[davidpretorius]

tried lifting it above 440 with the arrows, but i got a little beep

[[1ponders]]

Well both PCFE and RGBshift have certainly saved me some time.

I took 25 avies (1200 frames each) the other night and it would normally take me the better part of 2-3 days to split each avie into rgb, r, g, and b avies with Aviraw, save each avi as bmps with Virtual Dub, align each batch of frames with ImagesPlus and process each batch of aligned frames with Regitax prior to final processing.

It took me about 8 hours yesterday to do the same thing. :cool: What a time saver. :cool: Thanks Adam, those two little programs are going in with Registax as two more must have programs for planetary processing. I love the way the batching works. I can actually get other stuff done while I'm waiting now, instead of hovering over the computer processing each folder one at a time. :2thumbs:

[Harpspitfire]

just curious here after reading this thread- this program only works in BMP, so my AVI,s would need to be converted right?- im wondering about registax (regiscrap i call it at times- LOL)- doesnt the program just use that alignment square for processing? i was thinking about that centering but cant try it since i dont how to convert AVI,s to BMP- ill give centering and cropping a shot on a program i found called 'handyAVI'- you just draw a rectangle around what you want to crop and center and program does the rest- it also cuts the AVI into segments if its too large a file your comp- my program is anything over 400 frames takes 16 ridiculous hours to process- on another note, has anyone ever tried AVI-RAW?- it converts your ToUcam/neximage camera into RAW capture mode with and extra step before you feed it into the registax headache, from what i read in the program if you dont want to convert the camera 'efrom' (spelling?) you can just convert the camera to 'optimised color' mode, with me having the computer intelligence of a neanderthal, i couldnt get past loading the new camera settings- but ive seen others that used this with outstanding results- john

[[1ponders]]

Hi Harp, I use Aviraw to split avies into rgb components and then use Virtual dub (great batching ability) into individual bmps. I used to just run the avies through registax, but I found that I got better results if I bmped and aligned each image first.

[davidpretorius]

I agree with Paul Harps,

if the image wanders around, then as soon as you start to align and estimate the quality of the frame, registax has trouble following the avi around. I have noticed that there may be a really sharp frame there, but if it follows a large movement on the screen, then it takes the alignment frame a few images to settle. Call it registax backlash for want of a better term.

Also for creation of a reference frame, non centred frames or avi's seem to cause errors if you fiddle too much at this stage.

Avi raw is great, I have not had the seeing to use 5fps raw mode as optimised 10fps is working well. I used to use it for splitting the avi into red, green and blue, but now I am hooked on Adam's rgb slit and ppmcentre frint end.

[davidpretorius]

Adam, given we have most likely to have split into r,g,b and have these sitting under a parent directory, can the ppmcentre front end simply point to the parent and process the three sub directories underneath?

just trying to save adding all 3 directories to the batch.

Very impressed with your stuff mate, just need to add the avi to bmp convert and combine all three processes into one "point at the directory, press the button and Dennis is your uncle!"

hmmmmmmmmmm... if only i could have dennis's alignment, i would ever need to go outside again!

[[1ponders]]

Next we have to work on batch processing in Registax Dave :thumbsup:

[davidpretorius]

I believe bird has been working on it on and off for a while.

Once he moves into his new house, I will start hounding him!!!

Imagine, on a beach in barbados, relaxing after an all nighter, the computer chugging away processing everything from splitting to submitting to IIS with even a few spams thrown in.....yup that is the life!!

[[1ponders]]

:lol:

[iceman]

Dave, the next version will have ppmcentre and RGBSplit integrated together - so you'll use 1 set of directories, and it will centre them and then split them.

Having said that, the way you worded it, it sounds like you're running RGBSplit before ppmcentre? Is that the case?

You should be running ppmcentre first, and then run RGB split on the resulting BMP's from ppmcentre. That way, you run ppmcentre once and RGB split.

Rather than RGB split once, and ppmcentre 3 times.

[davidpretorius]

:whistle: :ashamed:

ummmm, well yes, that is what I was meaning to do.......ummmm....wellll........... .











thanks mike......

[iceman]

:rofl:

Don't worry Dave, I won't tell anyone!

[davidpretorius]

thanks mike, can this thread be sealed for 50 years in a government vault???

[Hitchhiker]

Hi DP - yes you can go as high as 640 for the width and 480 for the height (I could change this, but I didn't think anyone would need to go bigger than that).



If you were getting a beep when you were trying to set a value,then I suspect you were trying to make CutX larger than Width, or CutY larger than Height, alternatively if you try to make Width smaller than CutX, or Height smaller than CutY you will get a beep and PCFE will stubbornly refuse to do your bidding. The cutout needs to be smaller than the final Width and Height (though I'm sure ppmcentre would gracefully handle CutX or CutY being larger than Width and Height - I haven't given you that option!)

I'm glad it's saving some time. As Mike said, I have the integrated version in the pipeline now. You will only need to select the source folders, press process and the new app will run ppmcentre with the parameters you have selected, then RGB Split the ppmcentred bitmaps. (You will actually have the choice as to what 'mode' the new app is in - ppmcentre only, RGB Split only or both ppmcentre and RGBSplit)

[davidpretorius]

thanks adam,

i will double check with the 480, i must have been clicking the wrong one. It still worked well. I usually have to go cut=440, width = 480, but having everything at 440, it worked great

[davidpretorius]

re conversions from avi to bmp's,

here is the command line for the bink and smacker program

BinkConv jup_o4.avi x.bmp /o /n-1

[davidpretorius]

# Done: BinkConv jup-10-o8.avi x.bmp /o /n-1
# Done: cd C:\data\Astronomy\Avis\jup_060604_1 300UT
# Done: BinkConv jup-10-o9.avi x.bmp /o /n-1
# Done: cd C:\data\Astronomy\Avis\jup_060604_1 321UT
# Running: BinkConv jup-10-o11.avi x.bmp /o /n-1

some more batch commands for bink and smacker

[Gendo]

Okay, Mike and David got me to come to this forum finally.

I'm in on beta testing it Adam. I just need a new capture now as I deleted my other ones (tonight hopefully). :P

[iceman]

Hey Gendo, nice to see you here. You'll love using PCFE and RGBSplit!

[Gendo]

Thanks Mike.

1ponders, I usually save my bmps in AVIraw. Is VirtualDub better for that?

[[1ponders]]

Can't really say Gendo. From force of habit (I learnt Virt Dub first) I always use VD to split my avies, I didn't even know that Aviraw did it :P Can Aviraw batch process? Now though with PCFE and RGBplit I wont need to use Aviraw at all.

[davidpretorius]

HOOKED HIM, LANDED HIM & SCALED HIM.

welcome gendo, once this has the conversion of avi's to bmp's, then it will do away with everything else. Bird has his stacking project for ppmcentre as well.

I had my usual 6.30am breakfast meeting, but before I left, I batched all my saved bmps, thru the ppmcentre frontend and walked away.

A real time saver.

I will now have the RGB split working in the background all day so I can free up time to do work (spelt forum)

Top stuff Adam

[Hitchhiker]

Here's a little preview of the integrated app - the folders tab will be the same, with all the changes on the Options tab.

You can select the mode of operation - ppmcentre only, RGBSplit only, or both. Set the ppmcentre options you want. Change the RGB Split default folder names (if you want). Go to the Folders tab and press Process. The app will run ppmcentre on the folders you selected, RGBSplit will then process the resultant ppmcentred bitmaps - all as a 'batch' process, so no user input required.

[[1ponders]]

That is so kewl Adam, thanks:P When do we get to have a play :D

[Hitchhiker]

Maybe a week - maybe a little longer. I haven't got a lot to do to finish it, but my workload (at home and at work) is pretty heavy at the moment.

I have a working version but I've 'hard coded' some stuff for testing purposes. I've also got some improvements suggested by Chris (33 South) to do - those will go into the new app rather than PCFE.

[iceman]

Screeny looks great Adam.

I assume that if you check the "ppmcentre only" radio button that the RGBSplit controls go grey, and vice versa?

[matt]

Fantastic stuff!!!

Just a couple of points. I've noticed with both GUIs the expand (maximise) button isn't working?

This isn't a big problem unless you're working with long directory strings.

Also, mousing over first/last in the "Renumber" box (in PCFE) doesn't tell us what those two options (first, last) mean??? By default "renumber" box is ticked and "first" is also selected.

Otherwise, this is really coooooool stuff:thumbsup:

[davidpretorius]

does it make coffee, it does eversything else!!!!

well done mate!

[Hitchhiker]

Yes, the controls will be disabled depending on the mode.



That's right - if I allowed you to expand or resize the form, I would have to write code to resize the tab, the folder list box and reposition buttons! In the interests of rapid development, I haven't done that (OK, I'm just lazy!). I might do this for a later release. For long directory strings, I'm looking at putting a scroll bar on the folders list when the path is too long for the box.



Oops, I did forget to add the tip to the First and last options. Yes the default is renumber and first (ppmcentre uses these defaults, so I use them too) If you want to have other default values, change them, then go up to File|Save ppmcentre options and these will be your new default values. I think you will find that you always use similar values in your processing - save these as your default values and PCFE will use them every time you start the app. You are also prompted to save new default values if you have changed something and you move off the ppmcentre tab.

[Gendo]

Oh yes. When I opened it yesterday I was thrilled by the looks of it!! I like the addition of RGB split shown in your preview picture as well Adam. Makes it even better, and like David said, a real time saver.

1ponders, with AVIraw I have to save the avi into RGB avis, then open each of them to convert into bmps. Finally I use ppmcentre. This front end application Adam has made with Anthony's ppmcentre and the rgb split (not sure who made it) will make things much easier. Its kind of funny I use AVIraw since I don't use the RAW mode for the Neximage anymore.

[Hitchhiker]

Thanks Gendo and welcome to IIS! :welcome:

RGBSplit actually came first - it started out as an app I wrote for myself to split colour bitmaps into RGB channels.

The visual front end for ppmcentre came next so that more people have a chance to use bird's fantastic application (without having to go to the command line to do it - even users who are comfortable with the command line seem to like the convenience of the GUI)

Next will be the combined app. It's now a little more than a month since Mike and I started talking about making RGBSplit available to everyone - a very busy month! :D

[[1ponders]]

Sounds like you had a similar process to me Gendo. Split avies into rgb using Aviraw (two steps, saving the rgb and then splitting into r, g, b), convert split avies to bmps using VD/Aviraw (4 processeses (might a well do the rgb avi while I'm at it :P ) though fortunately VD has batching), then I'd align the bmps with Images Plus (4 processes for rgb, r, g, b x 25 for the number of original avies :P plus). Then process the full size bmps through Registax.:screwy: :screwy: :P :scared: :screwy: :sad:

Now it's once through VD (batched avies) to convert to bmps, then batch process all the bmps with PCFE and a batch run through rgbsplit, all while I'm doing other more constructive things, like hanging around here.


Thanks you, thank you, thank you Adam. :bowdown:

[Gendo]

^^ Yes, that about summed it up. I finally had some decent seeing last night, so I've been using PCFE, and it works flawlessly so far.

Thank you so very much Adam!!! It makes processing much easier.

Not that I'm command line challenged, but more like spelling challenged on that command line. It seems like if I do type the whole command string right, then something else goes wrong (like an image too near the edge of frame which stops ppmcentre dead in its tracks).

[Hitchhiker]

No worries, Justin. :thumbsup:

Like you, I don't mind the command line but I find the GUI a bit more convenient. I did some processing on the weekend, too, and the front end makes things a whole lot quicker and needs a lot less interaction.

[matt]

I've just noticed something unusual.

Perhaps it's just the settings I'm using.

I've run a series of bmp's through ppmcentre and it keeps placing what looks like the worst frame (the darkest) at 0000 and the best (or among the brightest) at the bottom of the list at 1000. (It's a 1000 frame image sequence).

The avi was affected by cloud cover varying the brightness of the frames.

I've got the Quality Estimate box ticked, also Renumber ticked, and I've tried "first" and "last" in the Renumber box without it making any difference.

How do I get ppmcentre to put the best frame at 0000 and grade them down to 1000? Or is it possible the "darker" frames are the best?

Thanks

Also, is there any way of saving our preferred settings rather than it always defaulting?

Cheers

[Hitchhiker]

I can't claim to be an expert in how the Quality Estimate function works, but I think that the image is compressed and ppmcentre uses the result of the compression to determine how much 'information' is in the image and therefore its quality (a fuzzy image will have less information).

I have had problems with the quality estimation function in Registax if I have a mixture of darker and lighter frames, so I think that is where the problem lies. In those cases, I just made sure I picked the sharpest frame I could find as the reference frame in Registax.

You can save your preferred settings as the new default. Just change the settings on the ppmcentre tab and select File|Save ppmcentre options on the Menu.

Adam.

[matt]

Doesn't look like it will let me. That option (in file) is greyed out:shrug:

[Hitchhiker]

Hi Matt, have you changed any of the parameters on the ppmcentre tab from their original settings?

When you initially install and run PCFE it will run the first time with some 'vanilla' defaults. If you change any of the parameters to a value other than the defaults, the Save ppmcentre options menu choice is enabled (not grayed out). Also, if you have changed a parameter and move off the tab, you will get a message box asking you if you want to save the new values as defaults.

Adam.