Alcohol

[TrevorW]

I for one being an ex smoker (who still enjoys a cigar now and then) who gave up primarily for wealth reasons are annoyed by the hypocritical nature of the Govt who ban advertising, alter packaging etc for smoking but continue to allow unchecked alcohol advertising and consumption.

Once upon a time it was cool to smoke, advertising portrayed the practice as manly, chic etc. The tobacco industry supported sports, in every TV show or movie someone if not the majority of people smoked.

This was of course a joke really when sci-fi series etc showed people on spaceships or the moon smoking.

My point is are not the current generation cycling down the same path when it comes to alcohol. Shouldn't the Govt adopt the same stance towards alcohol as it does towards cigarettes.

Are not a lot of the current anti-social problems with the youth of this country fuelled by alcohol.

I enjoy a drink like most but can see that is some ways we are replacing one evil with another.

Your thoughts :question:

[marki]

Australia not enough of a nanny state for you already Trevor?

Mark

[blink138]

if they have banned cigarette advertising...... i think they will (should?) ban alcohol advertising too, eventually.
cant wait to see if you have to, too move outside of the licensed premises to drink your beer though ha ha!
pat

[Pi]

No, beer ads are the only entertaining ones! Ban car ads, they are truly terrible.

[Allan_L]

Perhaps there is a difference in the health risks.
They say that "every cigarette is doing you harm" (and those around you).
But I have never heard that every (alcoholic) drink is doing you harm.
Some are even promoted as being of a benefit, in moderation.

But I see where you are coming from.
... and there are more anti-social problems associated with alcohol abuse.

[TrevorW]

Nah :P but you know where I'm coming from :thumbsup:

[04Stefan07]

Down to more control but also comes down to people that need to control themselves!

I am more than happy to have a glass of Orzata over alcohol any day! For those who aren't Italian and don't know what Orzata is, it's the best drink on this planet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgeat_syrup

[Astroman]

Of course Alcohol Advertising should be banned (on Television), along with those damn life insurance adverts. Too much Advertising getting in the way of more important educational programming such as Star Trek and Meteorite Men :D

Of course I am all for Alcohol in moderation. Including the advertising of it in papers, magazines, books.....
.

[mental4astro]

I've never smoked, never been tanked (I'll enjoy one beer & that's it), never been on a trip. Plenty of chances but it never appealed to me to cause myself stupid harm even though all my mates did. I grew up in inner Sydney, Surry Hills & Redfern, with every sin available to me too. Today I still can't understand why anyone does. But that's me.

Controlling/banning advertising of grog & fags isn't going to cut it when the predominant cultural thinking is to get tanked, smoke & get high. Change the culture & you'll achieve a better social out come. But as long as there's $$$ to be made too from people, there'll also be no will from "government" to change very much at all - hey, they take a cut from it too! Illicit drugs, acute lead poisoning is the only solution for these peddlers of death.

[Steffen]

Yes, ban TV advertising, all of it!

I too enjoy alcoholic drinks, not so much for the alcohol but for medicinal reasons (red wine) or pure delectation (single malt). I do not enjoy getting or being drunk.

Cheers
Steffen.

[Darth Wader]

I'd like to see a bit more emphasis on closing pubs/clubs earlier. Why do people still feel the need to be drinking at three in the morning?

[Larryp]

I don't believe in banning any advertising, really. I used to smoke in my teens and twenties, but advertising didn't influence me-peer pressure did!
I believe if a product is legal, then advertising should be allowed. Plenty of things can kill you, but are still advertised.
The advertisements that DO worry me are all the online gambling ads -think we may have a huge gambling problem with young people in coming years.:(

[TrevorW]

Beer advertising today is like cigarette advertising of the past, there is nothing cool about drinking more than you can handle to stay in control. I'll admit in the past I have been there, but are not proud of it.

The point is two fold in that smoking has been singled out as a sociably unacceptable habit with great emphasis on health issues while alcohol awareness campaigns seem to focus upon other issues.

A lot has been done to educate against and control smoking habits while little has been done when in comes to alcohol

Consequences of Alcohol Abuse or Dependence System/category Early consequences Late consequences
Liver disease Elevated liver enzyme levels Fatty liver, alcoholic hepatitis, cirrhosis Pancreatic disease Acute pancreatitis, chronic pancreatitis Cardiovascular disease Hypertension
Cardiomyopathy, arrhythmias, stroke Gastrointestinal problems
Gastritis, gastroesophageal reflux disease, diarrhoea, peptic ulcer disease
Esophageal varices, Mallory-Weiss tears Neurologic disorders
Headaches, blackouts, peripheral neuropathy Alcohol withdrawal syndrome, seizures, Wernicke's encephalopathy, dementia, cerebral atrophy, peripheral neuropathy, cognitive deficits, impaired motor functioning, Reproductive system disorders, Fetal alcohol effects, fetal alcohol syndrome, Sexual dysfunction, amenorrhea, anovulation, early menopause, spontaneous abortion, Cancers, Neoplasm of the liver, neoplasm of the head and neck, neoplasm of the pancreas, neoplasm of the esophagus, Psychiatric comorbidities, Depression, anxiety, Affective disorders, anxiety disorders, antisocial personality.

Legal problems
Traffic violations, driving while intoxicated, public intoxication
Motor vehicle accidents, violent offences, fires
Employment problems
Tardiness, sick days, inability to concentrate, decreased competence
Accidents, injury, job loss, chronic unemployment
Family problems
Family conflict, erratic child discipline, neglect of responsibilities, social isolation, divorce, spouse abuse, child abuse or neglect, loss of child custody.
Effects on children
Over responsibility, acting out, withdrawal, inability to concentrate, school problems, social isolation, Learning disorders, behaviour problems, emotional disturbance

[mithrandir]

And all those funeral plan ads that run non-stop during the day.
Seconded.

[multiweb]

:lol: Along with life/pet/BS insurance ads. They all push people to turn to the booze. Too much spam on the box. :P Even the frakin' weather's at it. Roasting in a nice 46c+ probably here in Hinchinbrook. :(

[ausastronomer]

Hi Trevor,

Come on, please, discuss something you know something about !!

I currently run a medium sized club on the NSW South Coast which sells about $40K per week worth of alcohol and employs about 40 staff who serve it. I have worked in this industry for over 30 years at the very top management levels including as an employee and as a consultant to the industry, for some of the biggest companies involved in the industry. I am currently the Chairman of the Kiama Liquor Accord.

The control and regulation of alcohol sales and its marketing and promotion has changed enormously over the past 20 years.

I could go into great detail to tell you how and where everything has changed, but that is way beyong the scope of this forum.

Lets give you something to think about however in regard to the basic things that have changed within the last 10 years,

1) New 3 strike legislation for licensees (ie 3 strikes and you lose your liquor license)

2) New Alcohol related violence recording system by the police force. Strict alcohol sales controls for specific high risk venues.

3) New alcohol promotion guidelines issued and controlled by Communities NSW (ex Office of Liquor gaming and racing)

4) Self Exclusion Policy from alcohol sales and consumption areas of any licensed venue.

5) New Photographic identification cards and more stringent RSA training for all people involved in the dispensing of alcohol.

6) More pro active liquor accords and greater responsibilty put on to those Liquor Accords by the Casino Liquor and gaming Control Authority.

7) The legal requirement to sell low alcohol beer at a discounted price compared to full strength beer.

8) The legal rquirement to have free water available at all times

9) The legal requirement to have food available at any time alcohol is available for purchase.

10) Breath analysis machines now installed in most licensed venues.

11) Education in Schools in regard to alcohol consumption, anti social behaviour and drink driving. In my capacity as Chairman of the Kiama Liquor Accord I just donated $2,000 to fund an alcohol awareness programme for next year at Kiama High School. How many licensed venues donated money to discourage people from drinking 20 years ago?

12) Stringent opening and closing times and alcohol sales guidelines imposed by the Liquor Casino and Gaming Control Authority for certain high risk venues. In addition to this the legal requirement to employ professional security guards has been introduced as a condition of a large number of Liquor Licenses at high risk venues.

20 years ago you could walk into most pubs in any major city in Australia and find an underage person consuming alcohol and a fair number of patrons so intoxicated they could hardly speak, or sit on their chairs.

Do the same now and see how many examples of this you can find.

Contrary to your comments I would say about the only thing that hasn't changed in regard to alcohol sales and consumption in the past 20 years is the fact that it is still legal to advertise it and sell it. The difference between alcohol and tobacco is that the control and education responsibilities of alcohol in most cases has been put back in the lap of the industry itself to regulate and control, whereas the government regulators stepped in and controlled the tobacco industry themselves.

Cheers,
John B

[TrevorW]

You assume a lot about what I know and don't know

I do know that a lot of regulations exist and are forced upon the retail outlets ( I don't think I mentioned anything about the retail outlets in my post, each state is different etc)

However I believe that the advertising of alcohol should be banned the same as cigarette smoking. I also believe based on the effects of alcohol that the Govt is hypocritical by their (in)actions.

A 2011 Poll 68% of people supported a ban on alcohol advertising

http://www.fare.org.au/research-development/community-polling/annual-alcohol-poll-2012/alcohol-advertising/


Also read this report

http://www.fare.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/FARE-Research-Compendium_1-June-2012.pdf


An Extract from it

The cost of alcohol abuse is emotional and relational as well as financial. Heavy drinkers have cost those around them more than $14 billion in out-of-pocket expenses, forgone wages and productivity, and more than $6 billion in intangible costs. Each year more than 70 000 Australians are the victims of alcohol-related assaults and, of those, 24 000 are victims of domestic violence. In addition, almost 20 000 children across Australia are victims of substantiated alcohol-related child abuse.

[Danack]

It would be seen as being a 'nanny state' action but I think that people should be required to have a license which would allow them to buy alcohol, marijuana and other drugs.

For most people drugs (including alcohol) don't affect them that badly and they don't become dependent on them.

Other people have huge problems with drugs and shouldn't be allowed to buy any of them or at least have strict limits on what they can buy.

Yes I know, unlikely to happen and if it did there would be more of a black market for booze (but less for marijuana), but there is something morally wrong when we allow people to drink themselves to death over a period of years.

[Barrykgerdes]

I think all advertising should be banned especially the garbage that fills my letterbox. However without it there would be nothing else for the advertising people to do but go to the pub and unemployment will jump.

As for TV advertising the alcohol adds don't bother me they are mostly more entertaining that the programs they sponser. The funeral plans, life insurance etc annoy me more.

In any case prohibition is the best way to increase sales of the products.

Barry

[avandonk]

As an old bloke who has watched what has happened to many others I see the problem of abuse of alcohol and other so called recreational drugs purely as a medical problem. When it is a criminal act to consume any substance, real criminality will soon eclipse this minor non victim activity.

That being said the large corporations that advertise are not trying to shift existing consumers to their 'brand' but are really recruiting the next generation. They have to replace their customers that are dying prematurely to maintain sales. This was the MO of the tobacco companies.

Prohibition will never work. If our society cannot keep illicit drugs out of our jails then how can it stop their use generally.

As for the nanny state, I reckon all these rules are ridiculous mob. From now on I will not stop at red lights, stop signs, pedestrian crossings. You get the idea!

Until our young see us adults show by example how to behave. We cannot decry their excessive consumption of alcohol with energy drinks.

Of course when I was a young lad I did not need energy drinks! White Lightning was good enough for me!

I am afraid that Trevor is quite correct. We spend literally billions trying to stop people having access to illicit drugs and ignore the major drug problem in our society. Alcohol.

I would be amazed if there was no correllation with alcohol use and our legislators and judges and police. Talk about separation of powers, on this they are in agreement.

Here is what white lightning means

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYY2FQHFwE

He did improve a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROA21n2zxmQ

No sign of drugs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY61KtLSeys

Bert

[GeoffW1]

:rofl::rofl::rofl: Me too.

[GeoffW1]

That's a bit rough John, no need for that :(

[ausastronomer]

Trevor,

I don't assume a lot at all. I know from this premise of yours that you really don't know what has been done in the past 20 years by the industry and the government regulators to address the issues of alcohol abuse.

I have been at the coalface and a part of every single change that has occured over the past 20 years and I can guarantee you an enormous amount has been done over the past 20 years to address all of the issues concerning alcohol abuse. The cost of this to the industry itself has been significant.



I don't disagree with any of that. I am disagreeing with your comment which essentially says "nothing has been done to address the alcohol issue", which couldn't be further from the truth. As I said in my previous post about the only things they haven't stopped in the past 20 years is your right to advertise it and sell it

Cheers,
John B

[TrevorW]

John you are looking at this from one point of view,

For all the regulation Govt has imposed upon the industry, it appears little has been achieved in curtailing the drinking habits of young Australians or the socio economic problems associated with excessive alcohol consumption and research papers have been written about inadequacies of police and industry enforcement of these regulations under the Liquor and Gaming Acts, regulations which are controlled at State level not Federal.

Also numerous research has been done by various bodies on alcohol consumption and from what I've read the problem has gotten worse not better.

My attack was not against the industry, in fact I believe my poll questions where quite to the point IMO and addressed the nature of the Govt policies when it comes to alchol as compared to cigarette smoking.

If we are to discuss issues relating to industry I could argue that IMO the drinking age should be lifted to 21 and that bottle shops, pubs and clubs should be open for less hours and higher taxes imposed on the product.

It's ludicrous IMO how a 750ml bottle of wine for example can be purchased cheaper than a bottle of beer but these issues where not the intent of my post.

I was asking for people to give an opinion as to whether advertising of alcohol should be banned or not.

Cheers

[bobson]

Trevor meant little in comparison what has been done with smoking. Advertising alcohol should be banned.

[Hans Tucker]

If you ban alcohol ads we will miss out on the epic one...like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYZs7VJaAlQ

[Larryp]

Has anybody seen reliable statistics to show a reduction in smoking attributable to advertising restiction and plain packaging? If there is a reduction, it would be difficult to attribute it solely to no advertising. A reduction could also be due to restictions on where people can smoke.
I feel that with smoking and drinking, peer pressure plays a bigger part than advertising does with young people.
Its unfortunate that kids get hooked on one or both.

[marki]

I see alcohol advertising as a key element in the process of evolution. Its main intention as has been highlighted in this thread is to conjure up business from the younger generation who consume copious amounts, vomit all over the place, fall over, start fights for no given reason and cause numerous car accidents. Why if we did not have this evolutionary mechanism to cull our youth by crikey we would have to get involved in more wars to maintain the required slaughter rate and ensure the survival of our nation and the nurturing of our brightest and best. I say let alcohol advertising stay and perform its function. Another added bonus is greater sales of alcohol will only add to the federal and state coffers meaning more cash will be available come budget time :P.

Mark

[supernova1965]

I can't show any more perfect exsample of the absolute terrible ads for alcahol than this one that links some of our greatest achievements to drinking like going to the moon:eyepop: if the astronauts had been drinking they would have gone nowhere except in their minds.




http://www.thedrum.com/news/2012/11/29/ad-day-wild-turkey-bourbon-bird

This is one of the many reasons I can't stand the many horrible alcahol advertising and I won't even start on the XXXX ads.

[Irish stargazer]

Thats it :mad2:. I'm going back home;)

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: The best ever .
Brian.

[Barrykgerdes]

Man's love of alcohol beverages is older than history. Well before advertising, TV, papers etc. If anyone thinks that banning alcohol advertising will have any effect on alcohol consumption they would have to have rocks in their heads (or be polititions).

Barry

[FlashDrive]

This is not a ' sob ' story ...and I have never had a ' chip ' on my shoulder nor expected that the world ' owed ' me anything.... I was too young to know ....I and my twin sister were 6 months old when we were made ' Wards of the State ' .....too young to be put in an Orphanage ...placed in a ' non religious ' home for ' Babies ' .......why...??

Both Parents ....chronic Alcoholics ...both died from renal failure.
...caused from excessive Alcohol consumption.

From my perspective ....Ban Alcohol Advert's ...Yes.
Look at the grief it causes in Society.

A lot of people don't know this ...many years ago ...I worked along side ' Law Enforcement ' Officers .....and the amount of ' offenders ' that would give the lame excuse for their behavior was ' because he /she was affected by Alcohol.....in an attempt to have the Judge go easy on them.... it was pathetic.....they ( in most cases ) want to put the ' blame ' on the drink ... because they don't want to be held accountable ..!!

Have a drink if you want to... your choice .. but be aware of its' consequences.

There is nothing wrong with Alcohol in itself .....it's what you do with it and how it affects you..!!

Flash ..!! :hi:

[bobson]

Advertising works, period. Who ever doesn't know this obviously is affected by alcohol consumption or really have rocks in their heads.



Do we really need Liquorland to be one of the Melbourne Tennis Open sponsors?
Here in WA I just got junk mail from Bottlemart with big front page saying:

"THE LONG WEEKEND IS COMING!"

[Larryp]

Advertising bans will have no effect on that sort of behaviour, Brian:(

[Ric]

It would not worry me to see a ban on advertising.

Looking at the majority of the beer ads, they are only designed to encourage drinking (obviously) and increase sales.

I much prefer a cup of tea after a hard days work.

If ads are banned it may slow the rate at which kids take up into this binge drinking mentality.

[Hans Tucker]

I doubt that. It has been established that kids develop their drinking preferences and patterns from their peers and their parents and not from advertising.

[TrevorW]

rrrr the Darwinian principle :thumbsup:

[FlashDrive]

What a ' tragic ' statement to make .....!!
Tomorrow ...your wife / daughter / son / best mate / Mother / Father ...may become a victim to such a ' philosophy ' ...let's see how you handle that ...?????????

Flash ..!!

[blink138]

i think marki' emoticon means it was tongue in cheek..... i am guessing!
pat

[blink138]

Ron Burgundy: I love scotch. Scotchy, scotch, scotch. Here it goes down, down into my belly.

Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy (http://quotegeek.com/quotes-from-movies/anchorman-the-legend-of-ron-b/)

i love scotch........ says it all really!
pat

[Barrykgerdes]

Yes advertising works but alcohol and cigarette ads on TV, Billboards etc only have a monor role on taking up the habits. These ads are mainly to keep the users interested.

The real "take up" ads are the ones you see in the movies and TV programs where the actors smoke and drink. People tend to identify themselves with the actors and copy their habits.

When you see a TV ad for alcohol do you personally go out and get some or do you ignore it like most of us do. If you ignore it and say ban the ads you are then saying that you can think for yourself but others should not be allowed to think for themselves.

I personally don't like the ads but the sponsers pay for the programs I like to watch even if I do mentally turn the ads off.

Barry

[Kunama]

I think this is a very complex issue, far more than just the advertising aspect but something has to be done to change the current culture of drinking to excess. Maybe banning advertising is a drastic step, perhaps more control over the type of advertising might be better.

I saw countless lives ruined by alcohol during my 21 years in the AFP with the very obvious common theme being 'people trying to fit in'. The problem was just as evident in affluent households as it was in the 'battler' homes.

Peer pressure is an enormous burden, not just with young people but in most age groups and occupations, even in the Police Force there was an expectation to have a drink or ten with your mates. In the building industry it is the same thing, with some of the people I worked with consuming at least a dozen cans a day after work.

Most people are naturally shy in groups and use alcoholic drinks to overcome their shyness. Unfortunately the youth today cannot be told by their elders, especially when the elders haven't been the greatest role models. (Apples don't fall far from the tree)

Will a ban on advertising reduce the chance of a young person taking up drinking? I think it will certainly help but I think the real solution is for parents to get their kids interested in something else.

These days, with both parents working in most households out of a perceived need, the kids are really left to grow up on their own and to do that they have fit in with the crowd.

I decided long ago to spend time with my kids, we have sailed, swum, jet-skied, kayaked and snow skied as a family for 25 years. My son and I have a beer or two every now and then, my daughter and I share a red wine but neither has ever come home drunk nor have they ever seen me drunk.

[pmrid]

There is a singular lack of enthusiasm for doing anything that offends/disturbs the interest of major lobby interests. Those interests extend well beyond the companies involved in the production/manufacture of these goods and products. They include the distribution/marketing chain, the media and last but by no means least governments hooked on the steady feed of revenue from the sale of these products - tobacco, alcohol, gambling, you name it.

Consider the power that companies such as Woolworths and Wesfarmers and their various affiliates and subsidiaries have, for example. Between them they control sales of 80% of all alcohol in Australia. Woolworths is the largest owner of Poker Machines in the country.

Consider also the power that mass media has in these areas. Tobacco advertising has gone from sport but been replaced by - wait for it - online gambling. An almost equally insidious plague on us all. And it happened with virtually no debate or discussion. That is the power of the media and the inertia of governments.

That is why change in these areas is glacial and always well behind the need. As long as governments derive significant revenues from the indirect taxes they can maintain the fiction that they are not raising the income tax rates while maintaining profligate spending.

You can hope for change but don't bet on it happening in our lifetimes.

Peter

[Irish stargazer]

Good discussion. Anything in moderation is fine. We just have to use control. State control doesn't really help (apart from taxing the hell out of it).
My wife is a smoker (four a day or so). The only thing repackaging has done is to confuse her as to what brand she is actually buying. She sees a lot of imports coming in now of lower quality (probably due to the lack of branding).

[FlashDrive]

There in lies the stupidity of current and former Governments ...who.... in their so called policies on revenue raising from addictive habits ......don't stop to think that it's costing them dearly in this country's Health System....by pouring Billion's of Dollars every year into the States Health Coffers.

Flash ..!!

[bobson]

Alcohol is a complex issue and as such can not be resolved with just one measure such as banning advertisements. But its a step in right direction. At least this way government will show its not endorsing it.

Education about it is very important and probably most important. We can never stop people from buying it and abusing it. Some people will always drink too much just as some people will smoke regardless of packaging.

We wouldn't be free society if we don't have freedom of choice even if its knowingly harming yourself.

[brian nordstrom]

:thumbsup: I think you have hit the nail on the head Bob .
Education is the key , you just ask a 9-10 year old today about smoking , 90% will say NO WAY ! that kills you ! .
And the anti smoking education has been going , what ? 10- 15 years , great to see it is working , but as Pmrid said , it will be a generation or 2 before any head way is made on this alcholol problem of today .
Just looking at the news before Christmas on the end of year schoolies 3 + dead , sad , worse than my generation ever was .
Brian.

[Poita]

Looking around my town I think obesity is going to be a far bigger problem.

[ausastronomer]

How do you figure that out ?

Cheers,
John B

[supernova1965]

It's true they own the most pokies with Coles close behind


http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/pokies-ads-slam-coles-woolies-20120501-1xx4r.html

[CJ]

Obesity is a problem but I suspect alcohol impacts far more unrelated people in the trail of carnage it leaves. Alcohol is treated far too lightly.

[pmrid]

Try a quick Google or look at www.pokieswatch.org or www.ethical.org.au . It's not hard to find.
Peter

[JB80]

I don't think there is an option I'd want to vote for if I'm honest. It's complicated.

Whatever problems are there or are perceived has more to do with our culture than availablility, restrictions or prohibition. Prohibition has never worked.
In Belgium/France alcohol is available in supermarkets, night shops(kind of like a deli) and even from vending machines in train stations and can be purchased any time of day/night plus it's actually affordable. Same for tabacco.
My Dad was over the moon to find a pouch of baccy was only 4 Euro. Go figure.

Now I'm not saying there is no alcohol problem over here infact I have witnessed plenty of problems especially living in the centre of Brussels but there is certainly no extreme media fuss made about it and I haven't lost one acquaintance to drinking or drinking related behaviour unlike at home. They don't seem to have the same binge mentality as the Aussies or Brits(who are a good example of why earlier closing is useless). I can't put my finger on the difference really but it is there.

I do like the cheap beer and fact I can get it in the weekly shop, so for selfish reasons I'd like to see the Aussie government drop the tax and open up the market, why should I suffer for some senseless teens behaving the way I used to 10 years back, right? :P

Still this doesn't address whatever concerns one may have but it'd keep me happy.

[CJ]

"Unrelated" as in non family members.

[Barrykgerdes]

Pokie machine licences are directly related to liquor licences. Between them Coles and Woolworths own 80% of the liquor licences. QED

Barry

[marki]

Too late, I have lost too many to alcohol + stupidity. Are you aware of the concept of sarcasm :thumbsup:.

Mark

[ausastronomer]

Totally wrong.

The only connection is that you need to have one of a couple of different types of Liquor License before you can apply for Gaming Machine Licenses. There are a whole different set of factors which I dont need to go into here which in fact determines how many Electronic Gaming Machines (EGM's) you can have on the floor under the Legislation.

To say that Woolworths and Coles own the majority of gaming machines in Australia is not getting things in perspective. There are about 197,000 EGM's in Australia, 97,000 of which are in NSW. Of the 97,000 EGM's in NSW, NSW Clubs account for over 70% of those machines. So NSW Clubs account for about 33% of EGM's Australia wide.

Woolworths through its countless number of hotels owns about 12,000 EGM's Australia wide (6% nationally) Wesfamers through its hotel ownership owns about 3,000 EGM's (1.5% nationally). Keep in mind that the maximum number of machines any hotel can have is 30 and many are limited to somewhere between 15 and 30. Many hotels in fact have a lot less than 15. So what this really amounts to is a whole raft of indiviual shareholders just like me (yeah I own a few '000 Woollies Shares) ultimately owning 1 button on 1 poker machine in some outback pub. How much do you think I make out of Woolies EGM revenue each year?

Crown Casino has over 2500 EGM's on the floor of the Melbourne Casino. I would be a lot more concerned about that type of ownership than Woollies owning 12,000 EGM's across hundreds of pubs Australia wide and Wesfarmers owning 3000.

Cheers,
John B

[Barrykgerdes]

So!
I don't think we really want an buy into an argument. The statement said that Woolworths own the largest number of Pokies not the majority and that I would expect to true considering the number of licences they hold.

Barry

[Jen]

Well I love my UDL cans :P
And I have never seen an ad about them anywhere so ads didn't get my attention :D

[Forgey]

I enjoy the occasional drink with Friends and ads have never influenced me. I don't watch regular tv much so i've rarely seen ads on drinking/alcohol

Although i don't like beer I found this ad very well put together must have taken alot of coordination.

The Big beer ad.
http://youtu.be/eH3GH7Pn_eA

and

VB the melbourne symphony orchestra
http://youtu.be/qRZiARIdo74

I am not intending to advertise these ads, in my opinion these ads have been put together very well.

[TrevorW]

Jen UDL doesn't count :P;)

Granted beer ads are some of the best why do you think that is :question: