A favour for folk using The SkyX - please do this test!

[g__day]

Folk,

I am trying to get Software Bisque to help with an issue in the Sky 6 Professional Edition and I wanted to know if the same issue persists in the Sky X - which might help me get it resolved if it does!

Basically I connect my Vixen Atlux to the Sky6 under ASCOM - so I have to select Telescope API (to subsequently choose MaxPoint as a Hub, then MaxPoint which selects Vixen SkySensor2000-PC).

The alternate is to simply let The Sky monopolise the mount (not putting a hub in the driver chain) by selection Vixen SkySensor2000-PC rather than Telescope API.

When one chooses Telescope API (the ASCOM selector) about 90% of the capability is switched off in the Sky6, specifically under Telescope Options. When you use Telescope API your options are:

1. focus control and
2. abort slew.

When you select Vixen SkySensor2000-PC directly Telescope Options allow much greater functionality, specifically:

1. Initialise (including high accuracy pointing toggle, time, date, lat, long)
2. Focus Control
3. Reticle
4. Park
5. Set Park Position
6. Find Home
7. Align Home
8. Set Tracking Rates
9. Terminal
10. Star Search
11. Abort Slew
12. Alignment Mode and
13. Park Positions 1, 2 and 3.

A screen capture of this is attached!

So if you have The Sky X and an ASCOM driver for your scope, and if the Sky X has Telescope Options (like those described above), could you see if these options are curtailed when you use Telescope API versus a specific driver to connect to your telescope. I'd love it if the Bisque Boys would expand Telescope API so it reveal the same functionality as a directly connected driver does!

Many thanks,

Matthew

* * *

PS - All this came about by me trying to have the PC's time sent to the Telescope's hand controller to over write its time, without me having to key it in.

[Terry B]

I don't have the options you state but do use TSX with ASCOM and EQMOD.
There is a new plugin for TSX called X2 to ASCOM that gives much more functionality than TeleAPI.
With either one I can still use the dialogue box for EQMOD and I don't control it at all from TSX apart for slewing.
Can't help with the vixen controller sorry.

[g__day]

My issue isn't Vixen SS2K related - if I choose any driver - say a Celestron Ultima - the telescope options are there. If I choose Telescope API and have it select Celestron Ultima - the advanced options dissapear!

So it seems to be either Telescope API is loosing these options and / or The Sky 6 just shuts them all down once it sees Telescope API has been selected.

Under the Sky X - are Telescope Options a selectable menu item still and if so what commands can you issue - I'd be keen to know!

[Tandum]

Matt, TelescopeAPI is an ascom product. ie: sky calls telescopeAPI.dll to control the scope, but ascom supplies that dll to interface sky6 to ascom. You'd need to ask the developers of that api where the shortfalls are.

Bisque hates ascom and decided to write their own interface called X2 for skyx. So if you make focusers for example, you can now write an X2 driver so it will plug into skyx directly. We are supposing here that there are people out there that will pay a yearly subscription for the skyx focuser/camera plugin. Yes it costs yearly to control certain stuff from skyx.

Ascom also wrote / are writting X2 to ascom converters so you can still sell your focuser with ascom only drivers and the skyx people can use the x2 to ascom convertor to make it go.

Then consider, are all functions available on your device in stand alone mode available in X2, probably not. Are all the available X2 functions converted to ascom, dunno.

A bit like BetaMax and VHS or HD and Bluray if you ask me.

[g__day]

I've noticed after almost 60 posts on the Bisque boards over the year - if my question has nothing involving ASCOm - I get correct answers back in hours. If the posts involve ASCOM in anyway - answers seem to be very begrudgingly given (my subjective interpretation of their attitudes) and very slowly responded (factual - I've had un-responded posts re Telescope API pitfalls for days now on the bisque support boards. No response whatsoever - not even we'll look into it - which leaves a sour taste in my mouth after I spend hundreds on multiple products from them.

The X2 was written for the Sky X - don't know if it would work at all for Sky 6 - but 1) I doubt it and 2) it won't even install unless it sees the Sky X is already there.

Still I've asked my questions to Bisque, ASCOm boards and posted my query on Rob Denny's X2 thread - maybe something will come of it!

Update from the ASCOM group:

"The telescope API as designed by Bisque is very simple, and only exposes the most basic of functions. So there's no way from within TheSky to do many things... although many of the features you are interested in are available in individual ASCOM drivers (many ASCOM telescope drivers are richer than the native TheSky drivers for the same scopes)."

and

"The TeleAPI interface was defined by Software Bisque (it's a DLL that TheSky communicates with). Basically, it's a driver stub. Anybody with the interface spec can write their own implementation for a specific device. Bob Denny wrote a version that connects to ASCOM, but he was limited in the features he could implement to those which the interface defines- which isn't very many.

Chris

*******************************
Chris L Peterson"

[frolinmod]

That is a patently false and absurd statement.

A true statement is that ASCOM is currently Windows platform only. X2 was developed to be cross platform.

[bert]

Ernie perhaps you should read this:

http://www.bisque.com/ascom/

If that is not hate, what is?

I bought a software bisque universal licence, which I regret deeply, to make a dome work with an ascom only USB dome driver. I couldn't get any of the sky/automadome/x2 to work with the ascom dome driver as promised. I am forced to use the sky as I am using a paramount.

So I built a roll off roof to replace the dome. If I was using a Ascom compatible mount, I could have continued to use the dome slaving. But I was 'punished' for using a PME, which as you know does not have an ascom driver.

They make things difficult to make things work with ascom, and especially with maxim.

See how many replies you get in the sb forums from the bisque brothers when the words Ascom, ccdware or maxim is used.

Software bisque could have run with Ascom, the existing standard, but chose to use X2 as another standard. Basically the end user misses out because 1 software supplier has their nose out of joint.

Brett

[g__day]

I totally agree, however that isn't my point or situation!

1. I spend hundreds of dollars on multiple products from Software Bisque - but first I always confirm if certain functionality is provided both directly and under ASCOM
2. I find the functionality is not provided by the ASCOM path (or its severely restricted) - even though they've never mentioned that before purchase
3. I query this isn't working the way you told me it would - is it your side of the equation or ASCOM or both that is limiting things? (this they should definitely reveal up front)
4. Bisque (over and over and over) take days to answer (or don't) then obfuscate and eventually you find out they provide very limited support for open source development. They never come out and say this - ASCOM folk do. When confronted with this they finally fess up yep - that's the way it has to be. You then challenge them but I asked before I bought and you said - in writing XYZ, they then say - but we intrepreted you'd want to use predominantly our stack, lovely you say but I asked X and you said Y - no wiggle room there...

This has happened to me multiple times. They promise, you buy, you find its not what they said - though you specifically ask in advance, you call them on it, they ignore, other folk jump in, etc... generally ASCOM folk do something brilliant and you get what you want, then Bisque say we'd still suggest you do it our way.

Their software is great, but I don't know how to socialise it well with the rest of my software stack - PEMpro, CDC, Stellarium, MaximDL - all will share the telescopes resources under ASCOM brilliantly; Bisque doesn't play on a level field well.

[Alchemy]

Bit of this and that I suspect. It looks like bisque expects ascom to write to conform to it's products, whereas ascom expects bisque to conform to their product. Mexican standoff with the purchaser left in the middle.

Not sure how all this works, but I thought ascom was a bit of freeware that companies could use to interface with their product.... So I presume bisque need to lift their game ...:question:

[g__day]

I ponder - can you connect a scope from the Sky6 directly to the Hand controller via the Sky6 native driver (Vixen SkySensor2000-PC in my case, rather than Telescope API) and CONCURRENTLY connect everything else under ASCOM via MaxPoint?

Can two different paths be concurrently active (only one issuing slews at a time? If one program moves the scope - will the others see this move has happened?

So if I had Cartes Du Ceil, MaximumDL and Stellarium seeing the scope under ASCOM and Maxpoint, could I have The Sky6 seeing the scope simultanously via its native driver? If one programs moves the scope would the others see this?

Must test this today - I might have just found a very simple way around all my challenges!

[Terry B]

I do this always with SkyMapPro 6 and TSX. I connect both software to the mount(EQDIR) at the same time using teleAPI for TSX and ASCOM for SMP6. The curser will update on both software.
I do this as I am very familiar with SMP6 and it has the ability to save map files with CCD fields displayed on them in exact positions. I can open the map (usually of a variable star and its comp stars) and slew to the middle of the map.
I have TSX open as well so that CCDSoft will then add the pointing data to the fits header. This is useful for determining airmass etc.
I could just use TSX but it isn't as convenient at saving maps.

[g__day]

Well the short answer is no, but there is a reasonable work-around.

When The Sky grabs the scope directly, it takes exclusive access of the COM port; so a secondary piece of software trying to launch MaxPoint will fail. It's a shame the Sky 6 won't directly talk to MaxPoint - but I guess the guys saw it as a cheaper competitor to Tpoint so didn't want to do it (or us) any favours.

However once The Sky has monopoly control over the telescope it plays nice! It allows other software (except MaxPoint) to connect to it via ASCOM by selecting the choice The Sky controlled telescope.

So if I (sadly) cut MaxPoint out of my telescope control chain everything works well. I tested it just now with all of The Sky 6, Cartes Du Ceil, Stellarium, PEMPro and Maxim DL v5 active and it worked fine!

So I'd call this a partial victory - I now know how all the pieces play together and what will and won't work together.

About the only other thing I could try might be a virtual serial port hub - if such a thing exists! (I'm thinking a null port emulator but more like a hub e.g. http://com0com.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/com0com/hub4com/ReadMe.txt?revision=RELEASED )

[g__day]

Ernie, I think maybe you're being kind on them and we're being mean - the truth is probably somewhere in the middle!

[g__day]

My gripe is I took the Bisques at their written word. When someone lies to me directly three times, or lets be generous - is appalling withholding with the truth and I spend my money on these promises and I find they lied - I get cranky.

In all fairness they offered me my money back, but I felt I had too much invested in them.

I'm left with a sour taste that they should have delivered what they promised, I only found out about the ASCOM bad blood once my money was in their hands.

My comments about Tpoint is based on real experiences I personally encountered dealing with the two relevant vendors. Its no strawman unfortunately - its history.

You're assuming that I'm assuming - actually it was a customer mis-service issue that happened to me. I've dealt directly with many software vendors over the years - the Bisques re ASCOM are the only ones who didn't keep their word.

[g__day]

So the solution :) - HUGE thanks to Robin,

Thi set-up that gives me everything I want, one connects:

1. Sky6 PE -> Vixen SkySensor2000-PC
2. MaxPoint -> The Sky Controlled Telescope (NOT SkySensor2000-PC)
3. PEMPro, MaximDL, CDC, Stellarium, etc... -> MaxPoint

So once Robin suggested direct MaxPoint back at the Sky, not at the Hand Controller, it all fell into place!

Throughout this all - as usual,

1. Everyone here and on ASCOM where really helpful
2. Software Bisque never replied to any of my questions - ever

I've at least written to SB as a courtesy to say all is sorted - and suggest they improve their documentation so the next person doesn't have this same issue, arising from confusing documentation to say the least!

Thanks all,

Matthew

[Tandum]

No problem matt. Bisque still hates ascom :rofl: