View Full Version here: : APO Telescope

28-04-2008, 08:57 PM
127mm f/7 APO $800 US

goto mount $500 US

all new direct from China

anyone brought direct from China before

28-04-2008, 09:31 PM
Hi Trevor.

Got a picture? link? anything?

28-04-2008, 09:36 PM
Dear Trevor Warner,

Thank you for your mail.
our ED APO127, f=952mm,
with dual speed adjust focus,
8x50 illuminating reticle finder scope,
2" 99% dielectric diagonal,
1.25" WA10mm/WA20mm,
aluminimu case,

FOB China USD810/set

if add altaz mount with built-in goto system, GPS, steel tubular tripod,
add USD500/set,

the sea freight to your Sydney is about USD60



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Message Subject Inquire about Apochromatic Refractor Telescope Message Content 5' apo ed refractor complete pricing and shipping and insurance cost to Australia Message Basics and Contact Details
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28-04-2008, 10:46 PM


for under a grand = interesting?

28-04-2008, 10:54 PM
Houghy If only there was a astro buy a holic who would get one and test it for us all..... ;)

From the photo where the dew shield extends out from the main tube there is a set of lines very much like the Meade OEM scope. I wonder..


28-04-2008, 11:00 PM
sure sounds interesting to me

29-04-2008, 07:25 AM
Nice to see what these are like. Would be interesting to add to the observatory.

Kokatha man
29-04-2008, 08:48 AM
Is this going anywhere? Daunting, individuals contemplating/dreaming of direct purchasing (and from China) but isn't this the material stuff of the dreams expressed sometimes by IIS members re cooperatives etc....?

Or does this type of thing just become another dealer opportunity....?

Being an old "fraccy" buff it's caught my imagination - but there's many a slip twixt cup and lip.....

Anyone seriously interested in following this lead up from some sort of cooperative approach....

Check this proposal: we get 30 to 50 people to kick in $30 odd each and draw straws for the lucky tester/first option person....?

Would also act as test run for importation, I'm sure there'd be customs brokers, import regulations/possible licences etc.....

Maybe a pipedream, maybe just too hard..... but what about it fellas?!?

Cheers, Darryl

29-04-2008, 10:19 AM
To be honest i think that this is the same scope marketed in Australia by MyAstroShop http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-430 , so there is a dealer already. As for the cost it is posted as $3100. Now please note that this may not be the same scope

29-04-2008, 10:22 AM
well there is. I think Alan Gould has bought one (from Myastroshop) marketed in australia as prostar:shrug:

29-04-2008, 10:31 AM
It looks like the same scope, right down to the cut foam in the case.
If the price of USD810 is for one item, that's a good price and the freight cost of USD60 implies a single item. If you need to buy a container load, well it's a bit difficult...
Landed price? USD870 inc seafreight is around AUD945.
I think lenses/OTAs are exempt from duty but not GST.
Add GST AUD94.50, add customs charges AUD55, comes to AUD1094.50, but there may be some surprises I haven't allowed for.
I guess you'd need to add about USD200 for courier/airfreight if you were in a hurry to get it.

Still a bargain. I want one to replace my ED80. If I brought a few in, would anyone be interested in one?



Kokatha man
29-04-2008, 11:31 AM
Items under $1000 Aus don't attract GST, so there's one saver.....

No-one interested in my suggestions....?

Cheers, Darryl.

29-04-2008, 11:37 AM
at that price i certainly would

29-04-2008, 11:39 AM
i think the global shares might be too hard to attain, but if someone can import a few in then i am interested.

29-04-2008, 11:46 AM
As the scope should just scrape under $1000AUD, there should be no customs duty to pay. i think - I don't think there is gst either - correct me if I'm wrong

29-04-2008, 11:55 AM
You're right, if you import just one scope, seafreight, it's possible to avoid GST provided the Aussie stays above about USD0.88. In this case, an individual can get a 'scope cheaper than a reseller who'd bring in more than one!

Not sure if I'd want to form a syndicate, seems it may get a bit complicated dividing viewing time around New Moon period. IIS membership is spread far and wide geographically. It'd be the perfect thing for a small astro club though.



29-04-2008, 12:00 PM
On imports the GST threshhold is AUD$1000 including all freight and insurance.
Dont forget to add the cost of freight and insurance.

29-04-2008, 12:09 PM
I think that hOughy is right it is a ProStar refractor. I really want one but at $3100 I cannot afford it. But this deal from China at about A$940 is just under $1000 limit not to have to pay GST and import duty (correct me someone if I’m wrong). If my Meade ETX and other stuff sell, then I’m going to order it. I have ordered few times from China (up to $60 worth) and never have problem so far. True, shipping and clearing of money is slow, but it always eventually arrived. Win or loose.

29-04-2008, 12:11 PM
A Co-op purchase through some one here who has some experience dealing in imports from china might be the go. This certainly would make a nice upgrade to my Borg 100ED. But the Borg is a light weight champion, however i wonder if the optics are going to be any better?.

Some interesting links pertaining i think to the same scope. Manufactured by Kunning Optical in China and market by Maxvision.

Note the picture on the weight scales see the blue color at the point were Dew shield meets the main tube this coloring in red and blue is a signature sign of Maxvision scopes. The same feature can be noted in the rebadged Meade's.

Meade version


29-04-2008, 12:13 PM
Thats a very cheap price.

I've been warned off 5" triplet apos by an owner who said they take hours to thermally settle because of the insulating air layer on either side of the center lens element. With the large temp changes we have at night they don't always work well in aussie conditions.

I'm sticking with the idea of a 120mm ED Doublet when I go down the photography route.

29-04-2008, 12:39 PM
but if you were able to keep it relatively cool or thermally equal to start with??? LOL a new use for the beer fridge?

29-04-2008, 12:42 PM
Hmm, I think I'd like to see some DSLR images using this scope. Just how flat is the field and is there any CA?

I read somewhere it uses FPL-51 glass rather than FPL-53 as used in the ED80. What are the implications of using FPL-51 rather than FPL-53?

29-04-2008, 01:03 PM
Assuming the glass is of the same selected quality, ie, free of faults such as internal stresses, bubbles, color and striae, and the refractive indices of the mating elements have been selected correctly, then the only advantage in using FPL53 over FPL52 or FPL51, is that a shorter focal length can be achieved, and still give a near "color free image". High quality optical glass, of any type, comes at a premium cost. Stating FPL53 or FPL51 or whatever, means nothing, it all depends on the grade of the material. This is apart from the time taken to figure the lens set and mount them into a stable cell etc.
Regards Mark

29-04-2008, 02:33 PM
Further to this is you just want the OTA with rings they'll sell it to you for around $750USD+ sins and shipping. Unfortunately my money don't stretch that far at the moment but this is the second enquiry I've made direct to a Chinese Manufacturer the other ones called Hi-Optics and there has been no qualms about selling direct to me. If it is the same scope that's selling for $3000 then who's ripping who off.

29-04-2008, 04:45 PM
Hay! have a look at some of the other items they sell!


29-04-2008, 04:51 PM
One of my friends goes to China every month or two for business - next trip is in a week or so. I wonder if they are going anywhere near Nanjing....?

29-04-2008, 04:57 PM
Suzy_A how rude

29-04-2008, 05:04 PM
mmm Suzy, made out of glass too, wonder what Saturn looks like through this thing.

29-04-2008, 07:45 PM
I have a 5" triplet APO (FLT-132) and it takes no more than an hour to settle. I've also looked through three TOA-130s and I didn't notice any settling problems.

The temperature variations we have are much less than in many other parts of the world where many people use this style of telescope.

Assuming the quality of the glass, polishing and mounting is the same, the advantage of FPL-53 is that the same degree of colour correction can be achieved at shorter focal ratios than with FPL-51. This is advantageous not only because shorter refractors are easier to handle and mount but in imaging where faster focal lengths mean shorter exposures. FPL-51 is cheaper than FPL-53.

29-04-2008, 08:32 PM
I've been looking for a larger aperture refractor to upgrade from my ED80, for imaging with a DSLR-size sensor. The FLT132 looks like a great instrument but it really is beyond my price range.

So basically I've been comparing the William Optics FLT110 to the Prostar 127ED. They both cost about the same, $3100. The FLT110 has smaller aperture but boasts much higher quality. There is a field flattener designed specifically for the FLT110, no field flattener for the 127ED as far as I can determine. The FLT110 was looking like a sure thing.;)

Now, along comes this 127mm triplet APO for USD810.... The choice is no longer clear! :whistle: Gotta check the field flatness of the 127ED!



29-04-2008, 09:24 PM
The other option is to get a Retialer in Aus to import these from this particular source.

Her is another source. I came accros them via the hkastro forum and while researching a 6" MN telescope they also sell (looks much like the SN6 from Meade).
This scope is rougly 860USD. So looks like the same price. Note the link to the TMB vs Mavision link indicating this is the same scope.

29-04-2008, 09:31 PM
Alan has one

30-04-2008, 12:11 PM
Thanks! I'll drop him a line and see if he's tried imaging. He sure likes it for visual, sharp and good contrast.

01-05-2008, 09:10 AM
any further info on this and is there a group buy going, cause if it is the same as the Prostar for that money
I'm buying one :)

Terry B
01-05-2008, 09:54 AM
I sent a request to the co in China last night. Have to wait and see.

01-05-2008, 10:03 AM
Me too :lol:

01-05-2008, 10:04 AM
That seems like a long time for a 5 inch scope. For a 'grab and go' class scope, it wouldn't suit me. I'd have gone to bed before it settled. :)

01-05-2008, 10:20 AM
Agreed, however if it is indeed legit and around the AUD1000 mark, I'm buying one to go on my HEQ5Pro that's arriving today or tomorrow.

01-05-2008, 10:40 AM
It seems I created an interest. I'd like to buy one as well in the near future, as I live in WA they've told me it would cost $220USD for air freight & insurance. So all up $1020USD. My main concern is with warranty issues etc so if a dealer could bring them in and mark up at a realistic price not some ridiculous mark up then I'd be more than intersted buying locally even if it cost $500 or so more.

Kokatha man
01-05-2008, 10:59 AM
I floated the idea of the co-op situation, which I think was slightly misinterpreted: my suggestion was that for 30 odd interested people each kicking in a lazy $30 odd, by drawing straws someone would get the scope to evaluate and then have first option to buy/keep.

Or there's another straw draw after the evaluation, to determine the lucky eventual owner, if that's deemed more equable and the test scope passes its testing.

This is predicated upon trust amongst the interested IIS members, but I'd be gullible enough at a $30 odd outlay to trust my fellow IIS brothers and sisters!?!:P:eyepop::mad2::rofl::th umbsup:

This method lays some of the groundwork needed to import a quantity - the co-op would need to research/confirm the necessary protocols for importation.

On the other side of the coin, I have also thought of this as a "too hard" basket situation; and although loathe to bring middlemen/dealers into the equation, I am seeing Matt Lovell from Telescopes/Astronomy tomorrow and thought of passing some comments with him about this opportunity. He has the experience and ability to undertake importation of such (does it with other gear) and is not a big mark-up "rip-off" merchant to boot.

I'd be interested in others' comments re this post.

ps - I'm really interested in their possibility for my next big project: apo binoculars!

Regards, Darryl.

01-05-2008, 11:04 AM
You guys should look at a group buy. You might even get a *much* better price for 10 pieces. The organiser gets a free scope ;)

01-05-2008, 11:24 AM
I am very much interested in this scope, has anyone taken the plunge yet?

01-05-2008, 12:02 PM
>has anyone taken the plunge yet?

Not yet. Waiting for some DSLR image test results.

The company has quoted me USD850 for a single unit plus USD200 express delivery. After GST and customs fees I would expect to pay a total of about Aussie AUD1450 landed.
They quoted USD810 for 10 units. If others on this forum have been given lower pricing then we should go with the cheapest quote ;)



01-05-2008, 12:11 PM
Provided the cost of the shipped item(s) is below A$1000 you will not pay GST, regardless of the shipping fees. The shipping fees are not taken into account in calculating whether the A$1000 limit is breached or not. It's thus highly desirable to have the shipper list the item cost and shipping fees separately on the declaration that accompanies the item.

However, if the item itself does cost over A$1000 then you will pay GST on both the item AND the shipping fees. For items charged in a foreign currency the conversion to A$ is done based on the RBA's published rates (you can find them on its website) on the date of shipping.

I ordered a Megrez 90 telescope from WO in Taiwan a few months ago. Customs held it up because WO didn't break down the item cost and shipping fees on the customs declaration and the total of the two in US$ converted to just over A$1000, and Customs wanted me to pay GST and fees on that total figure. After I faxed them the documents to establish that the cost of the item alone converted to just under A$1000 (about A$985 IIRC) they immediately released the scope to me with no charges and it arrived the next day.

The upshot of this is; if you order a batch of scopes as one consignment you will have to pay GST on the total cost and shipping. Since it looks like you will be able to import individual scopes GST-free then a batch order would have to attract enough discount to more than offset the extra GST to be worthwhile.

01-05-2008, 12:18 PM
So if it is the same scope as the Protostar then why does that cost $3100? Thats 3 times the price.

01-05-2008, 12:26 PM
Well, it depends on the temperature delta between the inside of the house where I keep it and the outside, so it could be considerably less, but I don't use it as a grab and go - I have a 90mm refractor on a camera alt-az mount for that.

Setting up a 5" refractor on the mount it needs (an EQ-6) is not a grab and go proposition. A 5" really is too big for grab and go. I usually set mine up at dusk and leave it out to cool before using it.

01-05-2008, 12:41 PM
How do the customs calculate convertion rate to A$. On the date you pay for your import or on the date when it arrives here? Anyone knows?

01-05-2008, 12:44 PM
One of my friends goes to China regularly (every couple of months) for a business trip - the next trip is next Wednesday.

Unfortuntely they are not going to Nanjing this time, but said that next time if I want them to, they will book a flight through there.

So.... we'll see what happens.

01-05-2008, 12:50 PM
As noted in my post above, it's calculated on the date of shipping using the RBA's daily exchange figure, which you can obtain here:


01-05-2008, 12:51 PM
The customs fee's is negligible and 10% GST is only paid for every dollar over $1000.00 so again not much considering it costs 810USD.

I'm VERY close to taking the plunge with it ..

01-05-2008, 12:53 PM
At a guess - profit margin, costs, overheads and GST.


If you can buy it for US$810 then you will not pay GST or customs fees. You will just pay the US$810 plus shipping.

01-05-2008, 01:47 PM
Someone below got quoted USD200 for postage, so lets say the total is 810+200=USD1010 (AUD1075), you would pay GST on AUD75.00 which is $7.50 .. stuff all

The only way a group buy is worthwhile is if they can sell each unit for considerably less and somehow I don't think that will be the case .. waiting on 2 emails back regarding these scopes and if all is ok, will be placing an order by the weekend

01-05-2008, 03:22 PM
Regarding the W/O FLT132, I would point out there have been some problems with this scope.

There were issues with the cell, causing pinched optics, and tri-lobed stars. Word on the street is one retailer in the UK was pulling his hair out a bit over this one, with a few unhappy customers.

I'm not sure if the problem was positively identified, fixed, or designed-out in later scopes.

In fact tried out the prototype FLT132, with William Yang (William Optics) stood next to me looking for feedback. Looking at some distant halogen lights in the Koln Messe exhibition hall in Germany, I was surprised to see as much purple fringeing of false colour as I did...

Just thought I'd mention it.


01-05-2008, 03:49 PM
Dear David Hough,

Thank you for your mail.
our ED APO127, f=952mm,
with dual speed adjust focus,
8x50 illuminating reticle finder scope,
2" 99% dielectric diagonal,
1.25" WA10mm/WA20mm,
aluminimu case,

FOB China USD850/set
the postage is about USD210,
if you buy a pc, you need pay USD50 as additional handle charge.

if add altaz mount with built-in goto system, GPS, steel tubular tripod,
add USD500/set,




that was the response I got - another member and myself will be looking seriously at getting one - though the thought of sending money to china with no guarantees is daunting

01-05-2008, 03:57 PM
Hey dave, does the part above that I bolded mean that it's an additional USD50 per telescope for postage? Because if so, there's a good saving there .. Just didn't know what it mean't?

01-05-2008, 04:38 PM
No, you've got it completely wrong. Please reread my post at 12.11pm. The A$1000 limit is measured against the cost of the item only, however if the item cost exceeds A$1000 then you pay GST on the total of the cost of the item plus shipping.

So for example, if you buy a scope for A$999 you will not pay GST at all, no matter how much the shipping is.

But if you buy a scope for say $A1050 with shipping of say $200 then you will pay GST on A$1250, i.e, $125 of GST. That's why I paid no GST on my A$985 dollar scope at all when I imported it from Taiwan.

There's an FAQ on the customs site that explains all this.

01-05-2008, 04:46 PM
The problem you mention was, IIRC, the spacers intruding into the light path on one scope, not pinched optics.

The issue was extensively discussed on the WO yahoogroup early last year when the first examples of the scope were shipped. The scope affected was one of the first built, it was returned to WO and fixed. If you follow the CN refractor forum you'll see this is not an unusual problem with a brand new scope and other manufacturers have encountered it as well.

I'm not aware of this problem recurring on any other examples, including my own, and I've spoken to at least five other FLT-132 owners and I follow all the forums where this scope is discussed. Colorwise the FLT-132 is almost entirely color-free, there are quite a few excellent images taken with this scope available.

There was an interesting thread comparing the colour correction of this scope, the TEC140 and the TMB130SS on the CN refractor forum a while ago. Comparison of the CA graphs showed the TEC was very slightly superior to the other two while the FLT and TMB were almost identical.

01-05-2008, 09:56 PM
Here is another rebadged version by Astro-Tech in the USA reviewed by Gary Honis.

Stephen thats quiet a big profit margin.

02-05-2008, 08:56 AM
Yeah so far, I've seen this APO labelled as a Meade, Astro-Tech, Maxvision and Prostar, decided to take a punt and place an order next week

02-05-2008, 10:16 AM
I have asked for bank details and payment methods and they have not replied yet - can you provide this information? :shrug:

02-05-2008, 10:39 AM
Unfortunately not yet because they haven't replied to my first email, do you know if they do Paypal?

02-05-2008, 10:43 AM
I asked about paypal yesterday - no reply yet but i do know that they read my email

02-05-2008, 11:33 AM
Really hope they accept Paypal because I'll really start sweating if I have to go deposit 'cash' into their account.

Even if they are some sort of online ordering that would be fine, just something to track if I need too

02-05-2008, 04:34 PM
Here is the email I just received and notice down the bottom they advise that US funds must be deposited into their account (no Paypal) -

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for your mail.
our ED APO127mm,
All of objective lens is 3 elements/triplet objective and fully multi coating/FMC.
8x50 illumintating reticle finder scope.
2inch/50.8mm focuser tube and 2 inch/50.8mm 99% dielectric diagonal,
70 degree super wide angle eyepieces/WA10mm/WA15mm,
Dual speed adjusting focuser,
tube rings/dovetail rail.
Aluminiun case.

package : 21kg/99x29x44cm,
FOB China USD850/set

the postage is about USD200,
insurance fee is USD10,
additional handle charge for small order is USD50,

Optional accessories for our 127mm ED Apo Telescope:
Altaz mount with built-in goto system & GPS & steel tubular tripod
(packed in to a aluminium case)

FOB China USD480/set

8x50 erecting image finder scope with illumintating reticle finder scope,

FOB China USD75/pc

1.25"/31.7mm ED eyepieces as follows:

FOB China USD35/pc

1.5x, ED Barlow Lens, Fully Multi Coated

FOB China USD27

2"/50.8mm,2x, ED Barlow Lens, Fully Multi Coated

FOB China USD35

in addition, you need go to bank and pay your USD to our corp account,

any questions, please contact us.

Thanks a lot.


02-05-2008, 07:58 PM
Ok, I've confirmed the following from the supplier:

1. Paypal is not accepted, I have all the necessary bank details
2. Price is USD850.00 + USD200.00 postage
3. Triplet elements are imported from Japan (so not Chinese)
4. 1 year warranty however I am awaiting a reply to find out whether or not there is a local dealer (doubt it)

02-05-2008, 10:02 PM
If you are worried about paying into an account ask your bank's international dept the safest way to deal with a chinese compnay to ensure your shipment is sent before they get hold of your money

03-05-2008, 06:56 AM
I too worry about the security of this. I doubt they will ship before receiving the money though, and IIRC there is a 40 day lead in as well.

03-05-2008, 09:53 AM
what about credit card rather than paypal?
that way if the goods do not arrive you can dispute it. or is that only for australian traders?

03-05-2008, 10:37 AM
This is a good way of doing international business I agree, but this Chinese company is quite specific, bank deposit. Certainly no PayPal.

03-05-2008, 11:39 AM
No Paypal, bank deposit only .. have asked a few more questions so lets see what they come back with

03-05-2008, 12:53 PM
To put the paypal debate to bed, i have paid via paypal when i bought my gotostar from them.
See this email:

Dear Martin Meupelenberg,

Thank you for your reply.
goto system is USD260,
postage is about USD45,

whether you need GPS module for goto system?

insurance fee is USD10,

total is USD410

you may pay USD via paypal account : lindazlz@yahoo.com.cn



03-05-2008, 02:26 PM
Hi Martin, PM sent

03-05-2008, 02:48 PM
Then the policy seems to have changed, as I was told "we can't use PayPal".
I would obviously prefer to use either a credit card, or PayPal, even just for the little protection it affords.

03-05-2008, 03:13 PM
Gary they might have had bad dealings with paypal and that could be why they don't offer paypal payments anymore.
I paid my package on an Friday afternoon and Gilman did send it off on the next Sunday with an tracking number.
How is that for fast sending?
And the goto is excellent quality for $485 AU.
Goto this website to see how reputable they are.


They make scopes for observatories and the army, so they are not an small company :)

In my opinion you can trust them with your money :)

03-05-2008, 03:41 PM
surely the guy must be aware that he is being hit from a bunch of Aussies (sorry gary lumped you in this branding) for the same information and same methods of payment. I wonder if they would allow it?

03-05-2008, 03:44 PM
Who you calling an Ocker Huff? LOL.
Mind you if Martin has had a warm and fuzzy experience, I may be tempted to dip the toe in as well.

03-05-2008, 03:58 PM
Well mate be proud to call you an Aussie:rofl:......suppose you get this scope:D - you going to stencil a Zeiss logo on it:whistle:;)

03-05-2008, 04:05 PM
Hay, H0ughy and everyone,

one of my friends is going to China in a few days, so if you like I can ask her to phone (either before or when she gets there) and speak to them. She lived in China for 15 years and knows how to deal with them...

As for sending money to dodgey Chinese bank accounts, I know about that - I once sent $6000 to one and it disappeared for a month before turning up, but in the end it was ANZ that lost it, not the Chinese end.

03-05-2008, 04:07 PM
i really wished i could believe that 100 percent. i am 50/50 with this at the moment. My want for an apo of this size is huge - but common sense gets in the way:whistle:

03-05-2008, 09:06 PM
Just to clarify a few thongs here from import experience:

I bought in a William Optics 110ED, I won it on US ebay for US$1025, and it converted at US$0.92 to the AUS$, that made it about AUS$1100 landed cost, so GST is payable - no freight included in these prices.

My complication came about because WO did not put an invoice on the outside of the box - customs will not open it to retrieve it, so I had to go thru manual declarations as to its value (extra $$$ for the manual process!).

So tip number one is always get them to put an invoice for customs clearance purpose on the box.

This one above will come in sea freight so a customs clearance agent will be required (from $50-100 I believe) but no GST will be payable as long as it falls under the AUS$1000 mark. No duty is payable on scopes, I have imported 2 WO scopes with no duty charged.

Cheers, Alex

03-05-2008, 10:50 PM
Ok, they have confirmed that they will accept Paypal payment, the main reason why they we're against it was the fee's (85USD) but if this fee is paid then, YES, Paypal is Accepted.

03-05-2008, 11:37 PM
thats fantastic. probably cost that much getting a telegraphic funds transfer anyway

04-05-2008, 12:22 AM
That's exactly what I said to them, and paying that little extra in terms of the Paypal fee is worth it for my own security anyways :thumbsup:

04-05-2008, 03:29 PM
OK Gary, i will ask this one question, does this scope interest you, and do you think that it could be worth the purchase from the specs given and the features the scope exhibits?:shrug:

04-05-2008, 03:36 PM
yes it does to be honest. I am a refractor nut, and keen to use a 5", as I already have a brace of smaller (one 63mm, and two 80's).
I am sitting ready to pull the trigger, but the threads on the Astromart Forums certainly are making me nervous, with most suggesting that a true apo this isn't. There is the stigma of being from China, as well as the eternal "you get what you pay for", and while I can see good and bad in both, it is a decent jump to find it isn't as good as we all expect. Mind you, it could quite easily be better than we expect.
Your question is aimed at my worldly (debatable) experience, or are you wanting to co-op with me??

04-05-2008, 03:48 PM

your experience as a refractor nut is sought, as for the co-op your a wee bit too far away for that, but i do know Photoncollector is keen to have a stab with me on this. knowing that we can pay via paypal is a nice step in the right direction, and the fact shipping is offered for within a week from payment...... but it promises soooo much................:whistle:

04-05-2008, 04:06 PM
I am late to this thread so I will ask gbeal a question about the A-Mart thread...Is this the same scope (similar) to the one on A-Mart showing the "coloured" picture?

While I do not know how representative the photo is (assuming it is the same/similar scope) but if so it looks like it may be more Achro than APO...it may still be a good deal for a refractor of that size but based on that photo I don't think I'd have high expectations for APO-like performance...

04-05-2008, 05:28 PM
In answer to Scott's? question, the Astromart thread appears to be similar, but not the same exact scope.
It is here http://www.astromart.com/forums/viewpost.asp?forum_post_id=591324&poll_id=&news_id=&page=
What I do think is the same though is this thread, http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10/Board/refractors/Number/2356481/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
If I read it correctly a fair bit of this world wide hype is a result of a few new scopes being shown at the NEAF meeting recently. How come the GSO R/C isn't receiving quite the same hype?

In respect of Houghy's complimentary ask though, I too am stuck between agreeing that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and value for money. The price on this scope involved in this very thread is exceptional to say the least, and even fits near an achromat. If it is ED or similar then the value certainly is there.
It is also expectations and pre-conceived impressions. I own a pair of Zeiss refractors, plus a recent TMB/Lomo optic refractor, and without sounding stuck up, if there is too much chromatic I would baulk at the prospect of a 5 inch apo which has chromatic. But again it is dependent on what you find offensive CA wise.
Deep down though I think that before long someone will have one in their hands and can give an assessment as to it's suitability.
In my case I doubt it will be me, as all correspondence I have had with the increasingly well known Gilman have indicated "NO PAYLAL", and "40 days delivery from order". If I read him correctly they receive the order, and then have the scope made. Not what I expected.
Does this help Houghy?

04-05-2008, 06:50 PM
Guys 90 % of the scopes you buy are sourced out of China how many are truly made in the good old USA labour costs being what they are. Compare this scope to any other so far being offered. Also ask for spec's ie: where are they sourcing the len's etc and what is their QC. Ask if they have a return policy if the scope does not match the spec's given or the quality is not up to scratch. Never be afraid to ask.

04-05-2008, 07:17 PM
Well I suppose its only the kids inheritance ;)

after I can confirm with the big G some more detail then I will commit. Just not too sure how much more information he will give (or can give)

05-05-2008, 10:51 AM
Thanks! I am on the right page now!

05-05-2008, 02:11 PM
OK I am now getting frustraited and confused. I have had no replies to a few emails I have sent. Can those who got emails from Gilman please post the contents of what he has said onto this thread? I am beginning to wonder about the whole situation?

05-05-2008, 02:15 PM
someone in this thread said they would wait until someone took some photos with this scope before buying one.

also, the prostar was mentioned as being the same telecsope.

so, does the content of this thread:
qualify as a test? Allan Gould's photos.

which to me look great!

05-05-2008, 04:36 PM
the apparent similarities are uncanny

09-05-2008, 03:32 PM
i commited and bought a scope. After asking I graciously was given the following images. Please have a real hard look at the focuser image, what can you see? then you decide? ;)

09-05-2008, 05:20 PM
Got me beat Huff mate. But being a Feather Touch snob, and since you asked, is the answer: somewhere to tie the nylon when you go fishing?? LOL. Sorry, couldn't resist that.

09-05-2008, 06:13 PM
Far be it for meade to say it Houghy but theres some interesting writing in the background for sure

09-05-2008, 07:04 PM
Sounds like there's a severe bout of spendthrift fever happening here, I await the results with keen interest.:confuse3:

09-05-2008, 07:25 PM
Yes, same here Acropolite... I bet there are a lot of us watching closely. After a first light, we could see a sudden frenzy!

09-05-2008, 08:08 PM
as long as you hold on tight:whistle:

09-05-2008, 08:11 PM
yes, saving $$$$ is the main aim

09-05-2008, 08:19 PM
Hmm as i had suspected, i would say this is being made in the same factory where they make gear for Celestron and Meade. I linked to some photos in a thread i started sometime back. Good detective work there Houghy. The question still remains on the Quality control levels.


19-05-2008, 12:30 PM


marketed as Meade in Europe…………..

23-05-2008, 11:52 AM
Any progress with your investigations re field flatness?

23-05-2008, 12:36 PM
Haven't tried it myself yet, gotta get my 'scope first! :P

Allan Gould's posts indicate the field of his 127ED is somewhat flatter than the field of my Orion ED80. The WO P-flatII is supposed to work well with the ED80, although I haven't tested a P-flatII myself. I did try a P-flatIII with the ED80 and it over-corrected the field. Once we get a few 127ED's in this group I'm sure well be able to pool our resources and find the best solution.

23-05-2008, 01:45 PM
In case you guys are interested, there's an interferometer test of a sample of this lens at the site below; go to "Tests of Optics" then "APO prototype test".

Edit - something funky with the link - click on Astro-foren at the top of the page to get to the site.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.astro-foren.de/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.astro-foren.de%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafar i%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DG

23-05-2008, 05:24 PM
The link worked but I don't know enough about refractors to make heads or tails of the results...

In a few sentences, in plain English...were the optics okay or not?

23-05-2008, 06:02 PM
yes I agree - I have no idea - anyone read technical.........?:whistle:

23-05-2008, 06:14 PM
This was a prototype lens. A bit zony looking wavefront and a Strehl ratio of 0.83 in Green light ( ie 83% of possible available light into the Airy Disc ) . Not particularly brilliant for high power , but the color correction is good and should make a great deep sky imaging scope which doesn't particularly push the optical quality. The error is mostly consisted of Spherical Aberration

This was only a sample of one of course. I'va attached a screen from Wolfgang's test report .

23-05-2008, 07:10 PM
So Mark when are you getting one to test it out for the rest of us. ;) Or are you strictly a Reflector man?

24-05-2008, 12:46 AM
Fortunately Mark has provided a clear interpretation since half of the info is gobbledegook to me too. However, if you look at the strehl ratio and the distances that the colors focus from one another, then compare those figures to other scopes, I think you get a reasonable idea of how it might perform.

For example, I have an ed100, one of which tested at a similar level of optical quality as a TV102. They both had strehl .95 while the TV had better red correction and the ed100 had better blue correction (from memory). This only compares one sample of each but it's still interesting info.

24-05-2008, 01:48 AM
Well after having followed this thread with much interest I guess now everyone waits a week or so to see what happens when Houghy gets his scope. I for one will be ready to cough up some dollars if it is what it seems to be .... I like the idea of adding a 127mm refractor to my collection.

Good luck Houghy .... I hope it works out for all members with a spare bit of cash .... bargain !


24-05-2008, 06:24 PM
I usually test at 632nm Helium Neon , which is fine as reflectors are perfectly achromatic. Refractors at the minimum need to be tested in Green wavelength which is the peak visual sensitivity.

These OTA's seem to be getting great reviews: just don't expect a Televue at Guang Sheng prices..

I love refractors: they make great finderscopes :)

29-05-2008, 09:23 AM
so who has had an email stating delivery date?

29-07-2009, 11:54 AM
So how did this story end?

29-07-2009, 12:00 PM
lots of us wound up with the scope

and then spent a little bit extra on replacing the focuser