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  #21  
Old 15-03-2021, 07:41 AM
DamienB (Damien)
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If anyone is interested, here is the deepskystacker output. It is 290mb.


http://www.onsiteaudiovisual.com/ext...ionStacked.TIF


Damien
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  #22  
Old 15-03-2021, 08:26 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Damien
Your polar alignment is way out if those exposures are only 30 sec

Q : Did you use the Synscan polar alignment routine is attached for you ? Plus all the other information ?

I still use the Synscan after 4 years, don’t need a view of the SCP and I’m polar aligned under an arc minute in about 15 minutes


All the best

Martin
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  #23  
Old 15-03-2021, 08:47 AM
DamienB (Damien)
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Oh completely agree on way off. I didn't follow that last night as it was purely a "oh the clouds have broken. Go go go. 🙄🤣🤣
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  #24  
Old 18-03-2021, 05:18 PM
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That place of yours is not very Astrofriendly. You could learn how to Scheiner. I tried and gave up on it. Manually it is very time consuming and not very intuitive. But suppose you could fix the center of your tripod with a marker on the ground so you find it every time, and let’s assume you had a ultra wide angle camera lens, then you could take a photo of the star trails arcing around your house. They would form a circle with your house in the middle part of the frame. When you take that picture and suppose the exposure is long enough to yield sufficiently long star trail arcs, then you could overlay a cross on screen (or print it on paper) to find the center point of the circling stars, which would be a spot on your house. Now, if you can scale the dimensions of the photo onto your real house and mark the center spot on your house, then you align the mount to that spot. You might need a ladder and a tape measure as well as a glow in the dark sticky spot. It will not be the most accurate alignment but if you augment the alignment with an auto guider, you could be in business for serious long exposure. Not sure how viable this will be but if you wind up trying, please do share the photos of the process. Good luck!
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  #25  
Old 20-03-2021, 09:58 PM
DamienB (Damien)
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Quote:
Your polar alignment is way out if those exposures are only 30 sec

Q : Did you use the Synscan polar alignment routine is attached for you ? Plus all the other information ?

I still use the Synscan after 4 years, don’t need a view of the SCP and I’m polar aligned under an arc minute in about 15 minutes


All the best

Martin

I printed out your steps which whilst detailed, I still struggled initially with the descriptions. However I think i worked it out with placing the RA and DEC horizontally etc and adjusting the screw/clock etc.



I then followed the 2 star alignment as you outlined (Maybe suggestions of stars to use would be good if you plan to update document). I chose Canopus (because it's bright and I can see it), and the Acrux from the list. Whilst it was off by quite a way, I could realign it using arrows and get it on. This proved successful.


Or so I thought.


I reached the end of your document, although the polar alignment step didn't seem to work as intended. Unless I misunderstood the description, but again chose Canopus and it slewed to it, but not near. I corrected it with the arrows. Hit enter. It did it's thing.



Did the 2 star alignment again with those two stars. It was still off, BUT was in the region. Corrected it again. Took about 45 minutes. Figured I must be doing something right.


I then default to Orion because every one knows where that is as a place I'd like to image tonight.

Keyed in M42. It slews....


And slews... COOL POINTING THE WRONG WAY. It didn't even spin around to face north. Ended up pointing South West.


I released the clutches and spun it around. Fine tuned it. Mounted camera. Even at 10 second exposures I was getting oval stars. I also notice when it tries to slew itself, it sounds like a slipping gear.



I can't even be sure if it is ACTUALLY tracking. If I cycle through my photos (I took 60 at 5 second exposures just to feel like i did something), Orion slowly edges across the image. I would think if it was tracking in general, it'd be fairly locked in. The way my brain works is, regardless of where it 'thinks' it's pointing, it should still track at the rate of the earth yes? (I get the speeds will be different as you extend out from the SCP, but it should still track at 'A' rate).



So what to do? What to do?


I am tempted to email the Astronomical Society of SA and see if there's someone in Adelaide with this mount and who would be happy to come and set it up, show me physically how it's done. I don't even mind paying for the service. Unless there's someone from SA on here that want's to come assist for a bottle of scotch.




I shall keep persisting.


Damien



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  #26  
Old 21-03-2021, 01:38 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Damien,
Sorry to hear your woes
Can’t follow what you are doing it’s a bit fragmented
Your obviously not polar aligned
Some prerequisites before you start ,
1/ Did you mark your true south line ?
2/ Is you tripod orientation correct , facing true south ? ie: front leg and foot pointing true south. The closer and more accurate you are to this true south line the closer you will end up on your 1st Alignment Star in the field of view
3/ Is your mount in its “home position” with counterweight shaft pointing down the front tripod leg (which is pointing true south )
4/ Did you set up your Synscan handcontroller with correct settings
Latitude and Longitude for your site
Time Zone Adelaide SA +10.30
Current Time expressed in Month / Day / Year, not our way in Australia
5/ Currently I would be using the following Stars between 8.30pm and 9.30pm
for your 2 Star Alignment and Polar Alignment routine ( 2 Star Alignment Stars Miaplacidus and Acrux ) and Polar Alignment Star ( Miaplacidus ) The closer to the SCP and south meridian line for your polar alignment Star the better ( but not passing the meridian line
6/ Did you down load a copy of Stellarium on your home PC or laptop ? This planetarium gives you a map of every object in the night sky at any time all year round , year after year . You can use Stellarium to identify and nominate your Alignment stars and polar alignment Star
7/ Are you using a good centering eye piece ( My recommendation is an Orion 20mm 70 deg illuminated reticle eye piece) as it has a wide field, pretty good optics and good eye relief. Or are you using a software program on a laptop to do your Star Centering
Accurate Star Centering is extremely important for tight polar alignment
8/ As per the Syncan procedure you must perform a 2 Star alignment to determine initially how much error in Az and Alt your mount is away from the SCP. ( eg : Miaplacidus and Acrux ) Then perform a Polar Alignment with your polar alignment Star ( Miaplacidus ) , then you must finish with a 2 Star alignment again ( Miaplacidus and then Acrux ) to determine your resultant error . This process is an iteration and you may require 2 , 3 or up to 5 or 6 iterations to get your error down below 1 arc minute
Your handcontroller displays the Elevation and Azimuth error like this -
Mel=+000 00 00
Maz=-000 00 00
Expressed in degrees , arc minutes , arc seconds
The more zeros from left to right the better
All I’m doing above ( point 8 ) is describing exactly what’s been documented in my Synscan PA routine document

Other than the above points I can’t provide further assistance

Hope you get your mount polar aligned sooner than later

All the best
Martin
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  #27  
Old 27-03-2021, 03:45 PM
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Hi Damien,

In what direction are your stars actually trailing? I assume your shooting through the ED80 at 600mm focal length?
Can you see the oblong stars on the camera screen or only when zooming in or on a big screen?

If your mount is roughly polar aligned and set to track in the Southern Hemisphere, than a slight misalignment it should not be too noticeable in a 10sec exposure.

The Goto alignment feature has zero effect on the mounts tracking performance as this is only governed by pole alignment and correct hemisphere entry. but the mount can track

a) in sidereal on northern hemisphere
b) sidereal on Southern Hemisphere
C) in lunar both ways as above
d) in solar both ways as above

To better understand what’s going on, it would be helpful to find out in which way your mount actually tracks

Perhaps take try to align the mount with the aid of a phone app to seek out the pole location and use the phones inbuilt inclinometer to judge the pole height (the markers on the mount are not reliable and more decorative).

Then, choose a star in the east 90deg in declination (dec axis perpendicular to RA axis) and expose once at high ISO for a second or so, to see the stars location in your frame as a reference point. Then expose for while the mount is tracking for something long enough to produce a clear star trail in the image, say a minute (maybe chose ISO 400 if you combat light pollution).

The resulting image will be upside down when shooting through your Ed 80. If your star trail marches mainly east, then you’re tracking in the wrong hemisphere. So the problem is in your information provided to the mount. Any other direction means an error in polar alignment.

The ability of the synscan controller to complete an alignment routine to sharpen up the GOTO is limited to a relatively small polar alignment error. I don’t know exactly how much misalignment it can tolerate. But Beyond the this tolerance in degrees, it will just make wild guesses as to where it is pointed. If you then also track for the wrong hemisphere it will go haywire.

Have you had an instance where the scope tried pointing to the ground? Is the 2 or 3 star alignment feature offering you stars in the northern hemisphere?
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  #28  
Old 27-03-2021, 03:54 PM
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PS: the App PS Align Pro is very helpful and only costs a a few bugs. Can only recommend it. Even has a daylight alignment routine, which does not require being able to see the SCP.
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  #29  
Old 29-03-2021, 07:21 PM
DamienB (Damien)
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I appreciate all the help so far. Been busy with running my business, so haven't had much of a chance this past few days which sucks as the skies have been clear.


I am tempted to do a video of me setting it up and you can see where I'm going wrong. Would that be helpful?


Damien
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  #30  
Old 30-03-2021, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienB View Post
I appreciate all the help so far. Been busy with running my business, so haven't had much of a chance this past few days which sucks as the skies have been clear.


I am tempted to do a video of me setting it up and you can see where I'm going wrong. Would that be helpful?


Damien
That would be helpful. Looking forward to solving this mystery, and happy Easter!
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  #31  
Old 01-04-2021, 11:06 AM
DamienB (Damien)
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So I have been slammed with work, but last night in the living room, decided to go through the setup write up that was attached previously to this thread. One thing I have noticed is that the top section where the telescope sits, faces East/West in it's home position. It always has, out of box.



Is this ok? Or should it not be pointing North/South?



Could this be why I'm out all the time as the write up mentioned rotating it 90 degrees so it is East/West and levelling it.... but it's that way by default for me. If this is wrong, how do I change it?


Photo attached.


http://www.onsiteaudiovisual.com/ext...aphy/mount.jpg
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2021, 11:35 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Damien
If your mount is set up correctly, your telescope with sit north south in the saddle and point south
Here’s a series of my procedures to set up from scratch
I don’t know if you have these already, but if you follow them carefully you will get up and running I’m sure
Your EQ35 mount is similar to it’s bigger cousins the EQ5, HEQ5 , EQ6 and EQ6-R mounts ( some of the steps in setting up the mount head itself might vary a bit but the mechanical concept is the same )
Good luck again !!!
Cheers
Martin
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  #33  
Old 01-04-2021, 11:40 AM
DamienB (Damien)
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Hey Martin,


Yes I printed them out and was following it.



This bit here:


Quote:
Do the same for Dec , similar procedure but using the level on dovetail plate until it is horizontal
facing east west. Once level rotate the Dec 90 degrees so it ends up on “0” at the Dec arrow pointer.
Again you have move the Dec axis 90 deg

It is at 0 without rotating it? In the home position (counterweight down)..... So in the home position, when i click telescope in, its facing East/West before i go any further.... Hence the picture.


If i move that section 90 degrees so it faced north south, the pointer is to the side and pointing to 90
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2021, 12:59 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Damien
Yes you must set your Ra axis first so your counterweight shaft is pointing down the front tripod leg with the Ra setting ring circle “0” lining up with the arrow , then you set your Dec axis ( the telescope holder or saddle ) by turning it roughly east west , then place a bubble level across it against the straight fixed part (not the opposite side where the 2 telescope clamping bolts are) and move it slightly clockwise or anticlockwise to level it perfectly with the bubble level
( I use a 300mm Stanley builders bubble level )
Once levelled , you then turn the Dec axis ( telescope holder ) anticlockwise exactly 90 degrees or a quarter turn, the numbers on the Dec setting ring circle are not so important it’s the anticlockwise 90 degree movement that’s important . The Dec setting ring circle is only used to measure your 90 degree movement so once the Dec is levelled and ready to rotate , I just loosen the Dec setting ring grub screws , rotate the ring around so that the 90 degree mark is opposite the pointer arrow on the mount , lock in the grub screws , then rotate the Dec axis ( telescope holder ) 90 degrees until “0” lines up with the pointer arrow on the mount. The Dec axis or telescope holder has been rotated anticlockwise through 90 degrees or a quarter turn and should now be facing south north
Obviously you have lock and unlock the Ra and Dec clutches to do the above rotations
Hope the above makes sense
I just read my procedure and it describes pretty much what I said above
Just think in your mind that all we are doing to set “Home Position” is levelling both Ra and Dec from horizontal through 90 degrees or a quarter turn
So the Ra ends up with the counterweight shaft pointing down the front tripod leg and the Dec ends up facing north south when you telescope is attached
Cheers
Martin
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  #35  
Old 01-04-2021, 03:45 PM
DamienB (Damien)
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Hey Martin


Can you post a picture showing that top bit in its home position on your mount please?


Thanks
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  #36  
Old 01-04-2021, 05:15 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Damien
My mounts packed away at the moment in Sydney but here’s some earlier photos of both my 6” and 8” newts on my two EQ6-R mounts , plus a photo in my study when I was doing some testing with EQMOD and Ascom Stellarium telescope control late last year
Also a advertisement photo of your mount in Home Position
I hope these get your head around this procedure for setting home position
Martin
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  #37  
Old 01-04-2021, 11:21 PM
DamienB (Damien)
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Okay,


I got it.

Well kinda. I ended up adjusting the top so it was North South, then the ring to line up as 0 to the pointer (which was on the side). Effectively meaning home is 90 degrees offset.

Anywho, I did a two star alignment and it wasn't too far off. Adjusted with laser pointer through guide/finderscope. Checked in eyepiece. Did the polar alignment and then another 2 star alignment.

Decided to then see if it could find Orion. It could not. Not even close, didnt even spin around to North. But then I selected Acrux (one of the star alignment stars) and it locked back on it.. Hmm. Did another 2 star alignment. Seemed ok. Screen showed errors with 3 leading zeros. Which cant be that bad surely? First time around showed 1 degree and i did it again. But the Maz is 2 degrees? Is that bad?


Photo uploaded. http://www.onsiteaudiovisual.com/ext...401_201559.jpg

So second time around, I chose Canopus. It locked on pretty close. Then i chose M42 and it actually got fairly close. I adjusted it slightly with the arrows and clicked camera on. 30 second exposure. Clean and crisp.


1 minute exposure... no star trailing. On to a winner. Tried my luck at 2 minutes. No way in hell. Stars trailing for miles. Not sure how these astrophotography Youtubers do 3 and 5 minute exposures but oh well. I am getting there slowly.

So I did 30 1 minute exposures on Orion, but what i noticed is the star trails began to appear after awhile. I selected M42 again from the list and it was off. Quite off. Readjusted.

My next question is: Do I need to do an alignment again mid way through my sessions?


I'm also dreadful at post processing. Need to sit and really look at tutorials. This was done in GIMP after deepskystacker had it's way, and also in PhotoNinja (awesome program). It still doesn't pop but thats a job for another night.


Will get out again tomorrow. I'd like to start photographing other stuff outside of Orion, but at this stage, its a go to as it's easy to see and find.


Thanks for all the help so far!


http://www.onsiteaudiovisual.com/ext...y/Orionpng.png
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  #38  
Old 02-04-2021, 09:48 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienB View Post
Okay,


I got it.

Well kinda. I ended up adjusting the top so it was North South, then the ring to line up as 0 to the pointer (which was on the side). Effectively meaning home is 90 degrees offset.

Anywho, I did a two star alignment and it wasn't too far off. Adjusted with laser pointer through guide/finderscope. Checked in eyepiece. Did the polar alignment and then another 2 star alignment.

Decided to then see if it could find Orion. It could not. Not even close, didnt even spin around to North. But then I selected Acrux (one of the star alignment stars) and it locked back on it.. Hmm. Did another 2 star alignment. Seemed ok. Screen showed errors with 3 leading zeros. Which cant be that bad surely? First time around showed 1 degree and i did it again. But the Maz is 2 degrees? Is that bad?


Photo uploaded. http://www.onsiteaudiovisual.com/ext...401_201559.jpg

So second time around, I chose Canopus. It locked on pretty close. Then i chose M42 and it actually got fairly close. I adjusted it slightly with the arrows and clicked camera on. 30 second exposure. Clean and crisp.


1 minute exposure... no star trailing. On to a winner. Tried my luck at 2 minutes. No way in hell. Stars trailing for miles. Not sure how these astrophotography Youtubers do 3 and 5 minute exposures but oh well. I am getting there slowly.

So I did 30 1 minute exposures on Orion, but what i noticed is the star trails began to appear after awhile. I selected M42 again from the list and it was off. Quite off. Readjusted.

My next question is: Do I need to do an alignment again mid way through my sessions?


I'm also dreadful at post processing. Need to sit and really look at tutorials. This was done in GIMP after deepskystacker had it's way, and also in PhotoNinja (awesome program). It still doesn't pop but thats a job for another night.


Will get out again tomorrow. I'd like to start photographing other stuff outside of Orion, but at this stage, its a go to as it's easy to see and find.


Thanks for all the help so far!


http://www.onsiteaudiovisual.com/ext...y/Orionpng.png
Damien
Your polar alignment numbers for Azimuth and Altitude are not good , your way off

Please read my notes and procedures carefully in the Synscan Polar alignment routine , as you asked me if your numbers were any good , the notes and procedures would have told you that

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh but but you need to read , read , read and then do a simulated make up procedure during the day to get ready for the real test at night

I’m confident you will get there , it took me a few weeks and 3 or 4 night sessions to get my polar alignment error down to 1 arc minute or under

Good luck !!
Martin
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  #39  
Old 04-04-2021, 08:18 PM
DamienB (Damien)
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Having a go at the Flame Nebula tonight. Hows this for alignment?


I have an issue with the synscan. So i had it aligned like this with 10" and 15" I selected Alnitak and its Slewed. But then it stops? I press it again, it slews a bit more. 3rd time it gets to the location (you'd think it would do it all in one hit). Fine. But then it was out, not by much. I pick up the hand controller and it REBOOTED....... So I had to set the whole damn thing up again. Which resulted in 10" and 12" It's definitely the patch lead between hand control and main box. Job for tomorrow.

I still can't take exposures longer than 1 minute 30 without getting star trailing. I did remember to set the rate to 3 after adjusting it. But even at 1 min 30, every so often i have an image with star trails. So currently imaging at 1 min 10.


Each night is an improvement though.



http://www.onsiteaudiovisual.com/ext...alignment1.jpg
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  #40  
Old 04-04-2021, 08:57 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Damien,
Ok now we are getting somewhere
That’s about as tight as you can polar align that mount ( well under an arc minute )
Well done !!!!
What scope are you using on that EQ35 mount ?
In most cases with tight polar alignment on these Skywatcher EQ mounts you can only take up to 60 seconds ( maybe up to 90 sec if your lucky ) exposures before your Stars start to look eggy shaped or rice shaped.These mounts are not mechanically designed and machined as good as Swiss watches so it limits you to 60sec at best or 90 sec exposures if your lucky.So there are mechanical deficiencies in your mount whilst it tracks an object across the night sky
Here’s where Autoguiding steps in
Autoguiding assists your mount to keep pointing at an object with very high precision whilst the mount tracks across the night sky
Autoguiding allows you go beyond the 60 sec unguided exposure and successfully take 2 min , 3 min , 4 min , 5 min or up to 10minute exposures with perfectly round stars
PHD2 is the most popular and successful guiding software across the globe and it’s a free download
You will need a guide scope and guide camera connected via USB cable to your laptop to get started with guiding
Maybe read up on PHD2 guiding to get your head around it !!!
In the meantime just take 40 to 60 sec (unguided exposures ) to gain experience with imaging
Pick easy bright targets like Carina nebula , Omega Centauri cluster and other Star clusters to get some imaging time under your belt. Forget about dim targets like the Horsehead, galaxies etc.. with 60 sec exposures , they just won’t cut it

PS: As far as slewing to targets the Synscan handcontroller will never be perfectly accurate , it will always be off target a bit due to your mounts mechanical deficiencies and poor atmospheric conditions etc... just centre it
Alternatively you can spend more time on your 2 star alignment achieve more accuracy
Make sure you pick 2 bright alignment stars on the same side of the meridian, similar altitudes say within 20 degrees and not more than 60 degrees in azimuth apart
Last night I used Acrux and Regulus as my 2 star alignment stars ( Acrux was my polar alignment Star )

Cheers
Martin
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