Alternate medicine etc etc

xelasnave · #1 23-06-2021, 09:46 AM

Is it me or is there an increase in the quacks peddling alternate "medicine"...I mean, and given what one can turn up on the net I avoid being specific, it seems quacks are running rampant.
Someone linked me to some "doctor" a chiropractor? ( Anyways not a real doctor by any stretch) who tells this story...my wife got cancer so me and some of my scientist mates ( no mention of qualifications fields etc just a unsupported claim) grew some cancer in a petrie dish and tested what would kill it and after a couple of weeks worked out something in , some vegetable???, would kill it...now we can offer this stuff at $29-95 ....

Wow and my pills cost $300 a day and I expect are the result of years of research and testing by real named scientists...I must be a fool not to send off my $29-95.

This is but one...there are so many.
Now years ago I thought these folk were prosecuted as frauds..well if not in the past certainly today they should be..hunted down, hung drawn etc and worse for a second offence.

Imagine if you threw away your meds given to you by one of those fancy book learning doctors only out there to make money from their degree...in favour of your proven $29-95 sure cancer cure...mmm now cant anyone see the serious damage these snake oil vendors can cause?
More sinister than first degree murder in my book...yet as I said nothing seems to be done...why?

Alex

Startrek (Martin) · #2 23-06-2021, 10:24 AM

Alex,

These people peddling magical cures and medicines have been around since the 18th Century.Only fools, the ignorant, the weak minded and the frail elderly fall for their false promises.
Just ignore them and stick to conventional modern day medical science
And yes I agree they should be prosecuted as with thousands of other con artists around the world ( internet and phone scams are rampant at the moment preying on the elderly, makes me sick )

Take Care

Martin

xelasnave · #3 23-06-2021, 10:55 AM

Hi Martin
I suppose my annoyance is really due to the sheer gullibility and inability to think, just a little, on the part of so many in a day and age of universal education and enlightenment.
I mean I am just a mug with no special abilities yet I find no difficulty in asking " do you have any evidence or what are your qualifications" but so many just accept unsupported claims like it was a package they expected in the post...
I was watching James Randi who mentioned some woman who charges $700 for contacting dead relations...It is wrong in so many ways...

I am ticked off because my eldest daughter is one of these fools who thinks doctors dont know etc and that some fool on the net is worthy of trust...anyways that has clearly upset me personally but when you think she is one of many it makes one wonder why you arrived on the planet thousands of years too early.
She is into " only one meal a day" which according to the doctors I speak to say that is very bad for you...and of course what would a doctor know over a qualified youtuber...so....on the bright side I went to the fiseotherapissed yesterday and after inspection was told all good..no mussle damage and told of problems to exercise to prevent...managing some food and getting better...still not happy having a daughter who is "alternative" ...they just dont listen ..do they?
Alex

Startrek (Martin) · #4 23-06-2021, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Hi Martin
I suppose my annoyance is really due to the sheer gullibility and inability to think, just a little, on the part of so many in a day and age of universal education and enlightenment.
I mean I am just a mug with no special abilities yet I find no difficulty in asking " do you have any evidence or what are your qualifications" but so many just accept unsupported claims like it was a package they expected in the post...
I was watching James Randi who mentioned some woman who charges $700 for contacting dead relations...It is wrong in so many ways...

I am ticked off because my eldest daughter is one of these fools who thinks doctors dont know etc and that some fool on the net is worthy of trust...anyways that has clearly upset me personally but when you think she is one of many it makes one wonder why you arrived on the planet thousands of years too early.
She is into " only one meal a day" which according to the doctors I speak to say that is very bad for you...and of course what would a doctor know over a qualified youtuber...so....on the bright side I went to the fiseotherapissed yesterday and after inspection was told all good..no mussle damage and told of problems to exercise to prevent...managing some food and getting better...still not happy having a daughter who is "alternative" ...they just dont listen ..do they?
Alex

Alex
Agree totally they don’t listen
My eldest daughter ( 35 ) is trying to lose weight ( due to a few relationship break ups ) and has tried 3 or 4 different companies ( US) programs using these powdered supplements. Hundreds of dollars later and no results. I told her she’s waisting her money 2 years ago, just stick to healthy eating , lean meat , fish , fruit and veg , plenty of water and exercise regularly. Of course Dad doesn’t know anything because he’s 70kg and never had a weight problem
I’ve stopped banging my head , they have to learn the hard way. You never stop worrying about your kids ( and grandkids too , I have 4 )
Live and learn that’s my motto
Martin

xelasnave · #5 23-06-2021, 11:53 AM

Well how is this...
She sends me a youtube link saying watch this you will find it interesting..so I ask...what was the message you took from it...her reply..my daughter...Oh I havent watched it.... I am upset ...You send me something you havent looked at and she just does not get it..I blame her mother of course she was silly enough to pair up with me after all..that was not too clever.
Alex

Max Vondel (Peter) · #6 23-06-2021, 01:00 PM

Unfortunately when the big C hits everyone tries whatever gives them some level of hope. These people who promise cures are clearly the scum of the earth. I remember one very sweet patient with breast cancer who said no to conventional therapies as she believed all the new age wooo. She had 3 children sitting in the waiting room. By the time i saw her the cancer had spread everywhere and there was little we could do. She had 3 months left. With conventional therapy she may have had 3 years of reasonable quality life. And 3 years together with her children. I have seen first hand what all this new age BS can do. It's all very sad

glend (Glen) · #7 23-06-2021, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Well how is this...
She sends me a youtube link saying watch this you will find it interesting..so I ask...what was the message you took from it...her reply..my daughter...Oh I havent watched it.... I am upset ...You send me something you havent looked at and she just does not get it..I blame her mother of course she was silly enough to pair up with me after all..that was not too clever.
Alex

Alex, Don't get upset, she is trying to help you, and maybe doesn't really know how to do it. Time wasted being upset is time lost. Help her understand how she can best help you, and that might just be a cup of tea together.

Hans Tucker (Hans) · #8 23-06-2021, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Is it me or is there an increase in the quacks peddling alternate "medicine"...I mean, and given what one can turn up on the net I avoid being specific, it seems quacks are running rampant.
Someone linked me to some "doctor" a chiropractor? ( Anyways not a real doctor by any stretch) who tells this story...my wife got cancer so me and some of my scientist mates ( no mention of qualifications fields etc just a unsupported claim) grew some cancer in a petrie dish and tested what would kill it and after a couple of weeks worked out something in , some vegetable???, would kill it...now we can offer this stuff at $29-95 ....

Wow and my pills cost $300 a day and I expect are the result of years of research and testing by real named scientists...I must be a fool not to send off my $29-95.

This is but one...there are so many.
Now years ago I thought these folk were prosecuted as frauds..well if not in the past certainly today they should be..hunted down, hung drawn etc and worse for a second offence.

Imagine if you threw away your meds given to you by one of those fancy book learning doctors only out there to make money from their degree...in favour of your proven $29-95 sure cancer cure...mmm now cant anyone see the serious damage these snake oil vendors can cause?
More sinister than first degree murder in my book...yet as I said nothing seems to be done...why?

Alex

When you are fronted with your mortality through a terminal diagnosis some will grasp at any hope and these so called medical frauds prey on this. Look at Steve Jobs ... smart man made stupid decisions which went against all medical advice. Watching my father die of Prostate Cancer was the hardest thing because had he acted sooner and listen to people close to him he may have had a fighting chance and I witness the quackery and false hopes these alternative medicine people peddle.

xelasnave · #9 23-06-2021, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glend

Alex, Don't get upset, she is trying to help you, and maybe doesn't really know how to do it. Time wasted being upset is time lost. Help her understand how she can best help you, and that might just be a cup of tea together.

Dont you take her side damn it

Yes I know Glen but she is my daughter and she has my expectations to live up to...I am not really upset just angry with all the world for not being the way I reasonably expect it to be...that is so little to expect as I am after all only wanting things done the right way after all

Cant have a cup of tea as she lives way South of here...she came up a couple of weeks ago...you know see him in case he drops off...my Son came the day after..so very nice and I saw all my grandchildren and now know some of their names.

I gave her a guitar and a diagram of the pentatonic scale and told her I expect big things...she has unbelievable timing and would be great if she takes it up...

All is good...I am just here by myself, lonely and bored...so examining human emotions..happiness and gratitude are the best ones I have looked at.

Alex

xelasnave · #10 23-06-2021, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

When you are fronted with your mortality through a terminal diagnosis some will grasp at any hope and these so called medical frauds prey on this. Look at Steve Jobs ... smart man made stupid decisions which went against all medical advice. Watching my father die of Prostate Cancer was the hardest thing because had he acted sooner and listen to people close to him he may have had a fighting chance and I witness the quackery and false hopes these alternative medicine people peddle.

Sorry for your loss Hans more so given the circumstances you have shared, and thank you for sharing...I just wish the rest of the world could enjoy the perfection I experience every day, no quacks or superstition ..mainly no fear of tomorrow or death...I feel guilty being so lucky.
Alex

JohnF (John) · #11 24-06-2021, 09:53 AM

I was a Pathology Technician, graduating from Sydney Technical College, with a very strong interest in Natural Therapies. Also did all but two subjects of the Parthology Technician Higher Certificate -- was in the last year of this course and spent 6 weeks in Hospital during it after death of my daughter. that probably being bought on by stress. Also did one year out of a two year Cardio-Pulmanary Technician course.

I had worked part time for a GP Medical Doctor, Dr. G, who treated Cancers by Natural Therapies, based on Dr. Virgina Livinstone Wheeler's work -- an interesting aproach.

Also worked for a couple of weeks for a Naturapathic Firm doing Live Blood Anylisis [will not mention reasons that I left that Job on IIS as I was once banned from this forum for a religious discussion]

Also I have metastatic prostrate cancer, being treated by Androgen blocker therapy -- blocks Testosterone production, and had a bit of bowel previously removed.

I do lots of Hitchhiking and have met people who cured Brain Cancer, etc., by Natural Therapies.

Back in 1973 Wendy, a Girl I wanted to marry, who worked as a massage therapist for an Oesteopath, told me,

"Every Disease is curable, but not all persons will be Curable" [Because they dont want to be cured.] Many disease have a Pyschosomatic origen.

Have a friend, a former Ambulance Paramedic who makes Black Sal[ve] a Natural cure for Melenoma Cancers. He gives it away FREE OF CHARGE, but a few years ago it was $80 on E-bay for a very small Jar.

That is my friend uses Natural Therapies not to make money but in order to help people.

I used this Black Sal to cure my skin Cancer.

I also know a guy who calls himself Doctor -- has no medical Degree, who was jailed for fraudulant Naturapathic treatments, who is still practicing under a assumed Name.

So be careful of Natural therapies, but do not write them all off. A few do work.

The Natutral cure program I recommend is Called NEW START. And it is metastatic letely totally Free:--

N = NUTRICIAN -- Eat healthily. Google links between Junkfood and Cancer.
E = EXERCISE -- we all need some exercise.
W = WATER, -- Plenty of clean fresh water is good for you.

S = SUNSHINE-- Convetts Cholesterol to Vitammin D. Dont get too much though.
T = TEMPERANCE -- things we drink and smoke affect ourhealth. Google linke between alcohol and cancer, etc.
A= AIR that is fresh -- Get outdoors.
R = REST Adiquate. Okauy Know foerum members will be up all night at the Eyepeice.
T = TRUST in divine Power.

Nopte there is not one cost for that NEW START program. And there are a few NATURAPATHS that use that Progeram, but not many. Dr. G who employed me used this along with another treatment, "Autologos Vaccinines."

mura_gadi (Steve) · #12 24-06-2021, 10:14 AM

Hello,

Think Tim Minchin summed it up best, "natural therapies that are proven to work are called medicine"...

Such as asprin, the rest is placebo(no small thing) and feeding off the vulnerable imo.

Steve
Ps. Everyone travels with you on your ride and everyone has their highs and lows at different times. Relax and save your strength for other things.

JohnF (John) · #13 24-06-2021, 10:14 AM

Was planning one day to start a Free Live blood Analysis Probram, screening people's health, but it never happened and My Microscope was stolen.

glend (Glen) · #14 24-06-2021, 10:56 AM

I too trained at technical college as a lab technician back in Canada, before changing career after graduation. Knowing the process for determining blood type and various cell counts via microscope, does not qualify you to practice medicine nor give advice. Anyone can get a free comprehensive blood test through their GP and local Path lab. Your GP can explain it. And honestly, if you have Internet access you can easily find out what each and every element of blood testing is about, including normal ranges of values, etc. Quackery has no place in health. It is hard enough to defeat ignorance without feeding fringe ideas which do not stand up to scrutiny.

Startrek (Martin) · #15 24-06-2021, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glend

Anyone can get a free comprehensive blood test through their GP and local Path lab. Your GP can explain it. And honestly, if you have Internet access you can easily find out what each and every element of blood testing is about, including normal ranges of values, etc. Quackery has no place in health. It is hard enough to defeat ignorance without feeding fringe ideas which do not stand up to scrutiny.

Glen,
Great reply
My wife and I have been having yearly ( sometimes 6 monthly ) blood tests for over 10 years now through our GP ( both 61 yrs now ) Results are back in his surgery within 5 days and we sit down together and go through every test of our results which have a min max acceptance value ( I keep a hard copy of the results at home to compare with the next test )
A very easy , safe , accurate and reassuring procedure
All under Medicare
Martin

JA · #16 24-06-2021, 11:56 AM

On the general issue of alternate/natural therapies and medicines it's well to remember there are many pharmaceuticals that have been and are derived from nature. It is for just these sort of reasons you will see pharmaceutical companies bio-prospecting in all sorts of natural environments: the Amazon comes to mind.

Best
JA

Camelopardalis (Dunk) · #17 24-06-2021, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JA

On the general issue of alternate/natural therapies and medicines it's well to remember there are many pharmaceuticals that have been and are derived from nature. It is for just these sort of reasons you will see pharmaceutical companies bio-prospecting in all sorts of natural environments: the Amazon comes to mind.

The difference is, those that are approved medicines have to have undergone clinical trials to prove with statistical significance that they do what they say they do, and thus have the 'R' registration number on the pack.

Natural 'therapies' can get away with saying anything they want, as there is nobody policing their BS.

I'm not saying that 'nature' doesn't have a lot of secrets, but scooping up mud or randomly throwing some fancy ingredients does not a medicine make.

xelasnave · #18 24-06-2021, 06:32 PM

Yes Dunk spot on...
Alternate folk just miss the testing aspect...As I understand tests will see half the folk being tested given a placebo for example .when over they know how much will have what effect etc.. By the time they found out the root of a certain plant works they actually know why and what is going on...this reminds me of a mate who had magnets in his bedding, someone was peddling them as a cure all deal...how do they work?..dont know...tests? Dont know? But they work...it is just BS if you cant say why and how...
Anyways the reality seems there could be some genuine vendors of alternate stuff but they dont know if it really works or how etc but it seems there are many who are plain con men...deal with them...if you sell unapproved stuff you cop a fine .. rather simple.
Alex

Sunfish (Ray) · #19 24-06-2021, 07:58 PM

True. Like digitalis. However, you can spend a hundred years overdosing and killing before a scientist works out what is in it , how it works and guarantees the dose and contents or that the compound and it’s additives will not conflict with your life saving medications.

If you want to live under 19th century pharmacy and also take prescription medication, buyer beware. It is hard enough to control corporate advertising of known and studied drug compounds without “ supplements” or “alternatives”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JA

On the general issue of alternate/natural therapies and medicines it's well to remember there are many pharmaceuticals that have been and are derived from nature. It is for just these sort of reasons you will see pharmaceutical companies bio-prospecting in all sorts of natural environments: the Amazon comes to mind.

Best
JA

Hemi · #20 24-06-2021, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Every Disease is curable, but not all persons will be Curable" [Because they dont want to be cured.]

This is the most offensive line! Vulnerable people being told it’s your fault!

Quote:

I was a Pathology Technician, graduating from Sydney Technical College, with a very strong interest in Natural Therapies. Also did all but two subjects of the Parthology Technician Higher Certificate -- was in the last year of this course and spent 6 weeks in Hospital during it after death of my daughter. that probably being bought on by stress. Also did one year out of a two year Cardio-Pulmanary Technician course.

I had worked part time for a GP Medical Doctor, Dr. G, who treated Cancers by Natural Therapies, based on Dr. Virgina Livinstone Wheeler's work -- an interesting aproach.

Also worked for a couple of weeks for a Naturapathic Firm doing Live Blood Anylisis [will not mention reasons that I left that Job on IIS as I was once banned from this forum for a religious discussion]

Quacks usually overplay or misunderstand their level of education.

Quote:

Also I have metastatic prostrate cancer, being treated by Androgen blocker therapy -- blocks Testosterone production, and had a bit of bowel previously removed.

I do lots of Hitchhiking and have met people who cured Brain Cancer, etc., by Natural Therapies.

Back in 1973 Wendy, a Girl I wanted to marry, who worked as a massage therapist for an Oesteopath, told me,

Have a friend, a former Ambulance Paramedic who makes Black Sal[ve] a Natural cure for Melenoma Cancers. He gives it away FREE OF CHARGE, but a few years ago it was $80 on E-bay for a very small Jar.

Quacks usually can’t tell the difference between anecdote, bull**** and evidence based medicine.