Camera choice and a couple of questions

[garymck (Gary)]

Hi,
I'm looking at getting a new mirrorless camera. This is to be a dual use "happy snaps" and camera for astro use.

For astro use the prime area of interest will be for nightscapes and very wide field use (currently building an astrotracker) it may also be attached to a scope for deep sky use, though I have an ASI533MC Pro for that use mostly.

My budget is limited at up to $2000 for camera and lens.

I want something relatively light weight for travel use (Years ago I bought a Nikon D7000 and a couple of zooms, and found it way too heavy for travel - it spent most of the time on a trip to Turkey (one of my favourite places with amazingly friendly people) in my suitcase in hotels, and has been rarely used since (still have it, 13 years old and shutter count of 3.5K)

Could be interested in second-hand - though a check of Gumtree and Facebook Marketplace show people want silly money for some stuff.

So suggestions please for camera lens combo...

Is there anywhere in Australia that does camera mods for a reasonable price? Have seen quotes up to $700.. Worth it for my use case?

TIA
Gary

[mura_gadi (Steve)]

A lot depends on how you want to view the images you capture.

Printing large hi-rez images requires the stupid amount of megapixels.

Most people view images on the PC, mostly 1080p format low rez(now). Then if you want them cast to a 4k TV the format requirements change again.

***************************

Printing A4 300 DPI 3508 x 2480 (large A3+, pages size in inches x300)
4k rez specs are: 3840 x 2160

That's the minimum number of pixels you need to print or view at those standards. The trade off on the number of pixels is in pixel pitch, which is the size of the pixel sensor. Larger sensors work better in low light conditions, smaller sensors tends to capture action shots better. Generally.

You can see the little A4 print is using nearly the same rez. as a 4k TV, not bad for a 1990's standard home printing format.

Good site for camera compares, the D610 is a good base, pretty old and well inside of your price range. If you're patient and can check the goods gumtree can be a good place to buy. (I'll second the Z5/6 the full spectrum 6 looked awesome, made you understand why insects use various wavelengths.)

https://www.digicamdb.com/compare/ni...-sony_a7s-iii/

Much like telescopes, try and join a photography club for long enough to try and get some hands on advice and experience.

[garymck (Gary)]

Hi,
would probably do some a4 size prints, also viewing on a 4 k tv....
Gary

[JA]

Originally Posted by garymck

Hi,
I'm looking at getting a new mirrorless camera. This is to be a dual use "happy snaps" and camera for astro use.

For astro use the prime area of interest will be for nightscapes and very wide field use (currently building an astrotracker) it may also be attached to a scope for deep sky use, though I have an ASI533MC Pro for that use mostly.

My budget is limited at up to $2000 for camera and lens.

I want something relatively light weight for travel use (Years ago I bought a Nikon D7000 and a couple of zooms, and found it way too heavy for travel - it spent most of the time on a trip to Turkey (one of my favourite places with amazingly friendly people) in my suitcase in hotels, and has been rarely used since (still have it, 13 years old and shutter count of 3.5K)

Could be interested in second-hand - though a check of Gumtree and Facebook Marketplace show people want silly money for some stuff.

So suggestions please for camera lens combo...

Is there anywhere in Australia that does camera mods for a reasonable price? Have seen quotes up to $700.. Worth it for my use case?

TIA
Gary

Hi Gary,

You want a mirrorless camera that's light for travel use as well as some nightscape/ astro wide capabilities at <$2K.

If your requirements favour the lightweight and travel use aspects more then I would have no hesitation in recommending the Nikon Z50, an APSc sized mirrorless camera available with a 16-50mm lens for ~$1200 or with the 16-50mm and 50-250mm lenses for ~$1700. They can be had used for as low as 600-1200 depending or your luck.

If your requirements favour nightscape/astro work then a fullframe mirrorless like the Nikon Z5 or Z6 would be better as the larger sensor would collect more light (for the same field of view), thereby helping lower noise in comparison with a smaller sensor. That is not to say that the Nikon Z50 has any issues with noise. It has a very clean "isoless" sensor which performs well down around 200-400 iso allowing protection against blowing out highlights and recovery of low level signals as well as excellent dynamic range and hence retention of star colour.

I have a Z50 that I took on tour in Tasmania and would rate it as an excellent travel and general camera, being light weight and not bulky, especially used with the 16-50mm lens (24-75mm FF equivalent FOV) with excellent ergonomics and layout. I have a few seen a few images made with it on telescopes and see that it recovers colours deep in to the reds suggesting good Hydrogen Alpha response as well as excellent star colour retention. These images were in a couple of Steven Morris Youtube videos that used the Z50 as well as some others on Astrobin. I will look for the videos and post a link later if you like. The only issue I have with the Z50 is that in camera you are limited to 30 second exposures on the inbuilt intervalometer. Most cameras have the same limit, but unfortunately there are no 3rd party or even Nikon intervalometers for >30 second images for those wanting to travel light in the field. This may not be that that big a deal for some. I'm Ok with it as 30s is OK for me with fast lenses. To get >30second images with the Z50 you have to image via USB/Laptop control or miniPC or ASI Air(??) type control.

Best
JA

[garymck (Gary)]

Thank you for the comprehensive reply JA.

I had been seriously thinking about the Z50, or the EOS Rp. I'll see what I can find secondhand. I'd be a bit reluctant to buy new at the moment as it appears both of these are due for replacement sometime this year (at least according to the camera rumours sites). I was very interested in the Z50's red response that you mentioned as I was not aware of this. If it is not too much trouble I would appreciate you posting links to the images/videos you mentioned

I almost certainly will stick with the APSC format as the travel use/weight is every bit as important as minimizing noise. I know from my D7000 that I simply won't use a camera that is too heavy!!

cheers
Gary

[JA]

Originally Posted by garymck

Thank you for the comprehensive reply JA.

I had been seriously thinking about the Z50, or the EOS Rp. I'll see what I can find secondhand. I'd be a bit reluctant to buy new at the moment as it appears both of these are due for replacement sometime this year (at least according to the camera rumours sites). I was very interested in the Z50's red response that you mentioned as I was not aware of this. If it is not too much trouble I would appreciate you posting links to the images/videos you mentioned

I almost certainly will stick with the APSC format as the travel use/weight is every bit as important as minimizing noise. I know from my D7000 that I simply won't use a camera that is too heavy!!

cheers
Gary

Hi Gary,

In the following video by Steven Morris, "Astrophotography Nikon Z50 Deep Space" you will see the Z50 used on a Celestron RASA 8 with I believe a Celestron light pollution filter, which does alter colour rendition somewhat, but hopefully you will still see from ~5:00 min mark onwards that the image retains good star colour with good Hydrogen Alpha response for an unmodified camera.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb4cFRY717w

Another one of Steven's videos using the Nikon Z50 compares a moon image taken with a Nikon 200-500mm Zoom Lens compared with the Z50 on a Celestron RASA 8inch scope with final images from ~11 minutes onward, here ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA682_aFz8U

Great videos with plenty of detail at 1080P, of course 4K would better.


There are various Nikon Z50 images on Astrobin see these....

A couple of images...
https://www.astrobin.com/z8ny24/0/
https://www.astrobin.com/i93zis/?q=Nikon%20Z50

A menu page to 29 Nikon Z50 Images on Astrobin ...
https://www.astrobin.com/search/?q=Nikon%20Z50

Best
JA

[OzEclipse (Joe Cali)]

Hi Gary

Sigma FP
New model well worth considering.

Leica L mount
Good Ha/red response out of the box
full frame 24MPx sensor
incredibly low noise sensor
takes cheap E3 connection intervalometers
body weighs just 422g with battery
<$2000

Optional removable electronic viewfinder


Picture of Horsehead and Flame Nebula by Thierry Ligault
3-hours (360x30s) with the Takahashi FSQ-106 (F/5) and Sigma fp refiltered by Eos4Astro
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...00020990035369

Comments & noise measurements by Thierry about this camera
https://www.facebook.com/thierry.legault.5


In terms of Megapixels and print sizes, comparing the native pixel size to print resolution is a quaint notion that is about 15 years out of date. High quality low noise raw digital images have been being upsampled to higher than native print resolutions for more than 15 years. In 2006, I was given a 1000x15000 pixel image of a scuba diver drilling a core sample in a 4 metre porites coral. The image file I was given was scanned off a slide some years earlier, the slide was no longer available for rescan. The scan was good quality.

Using software and techniques available in 2008 (better techniques and software are available now) the image ended up as a 60x90cm poster print in our building foyer. I was using a 2003 version of Photoshop. That is an extreme example and it took a lot of careful work. Certainly, today, 200% upscaling is really pretty standard. You just have to learn how to do it without creating artefacts or buy software that does it for you. Without special upscale software, when you print a large image, you can set the file at 200DPI. So a 24MPx sensor, 4000 x 6000 pixel can print 20x30 inches at 200DPI. The reason is that a big print should naturally be viewed from a greater distance and doesn't need the 300-360 DPI print resolution. 200DPI viewed from 500mm away is not resolvable by the human eye. A 20x30inch print should be viewed from at least that distance if not further.

You will get a better large print from a clean low noise well-upscaled 24MPx sensor than you will from a noisier high MPx crowded smaller sensor printed at native resolution.

Joe

[garymck (Gary)]

Looks like a great camera Joe, but add a viewfinder and lens, and it's a bit above my ability to afford it. Would be over $3k :-(

Gary

[OzEclipse (Joe Cali)]

Originally Posted by garymck

Looks like a great camera Joe, but add a viewfinder and lens, and it's a bit above my ability to afford it. Would be over $3k :-(

Gary

Yep I saw that you had a budget and ruled it out. But then body is about the same price as the Nikon Z6 I saw you are considering. That's why I suggested it this late in the discussion. You don't have to buy the e-viewfinder now, certainly not at all for astro and see how you go for other. You can always buy it later.

Don't get your camera modded or be careful which filter is installed, if you want to do a lot of standard photography. Some mods really mess up white balance, some affect focussing. Check what functionality you lose before going for a mod.

Joe