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Old 22-05-2008, 09:22 PM
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aiming for 2nd Halley's

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PhD Guiding Depression - Reality Check - HELP

Hi all, finally assembled all the software and hardware I think I need for this auto-guiding my LXD75 with autostar.. I've got PHD Guiding software and serial - 232 cable bought 232 to USB adaptor, downloaded the latest ASCOM platforms and read up on and got and loaded the right Meade driver for the LXD75.

Fired everything up, plugged in my phillips webcam... miracle the software recognised it, fired up the mount, miracle it found the right driver and I could select the mount and the program "saw" it...I could even do some looped images and find and focus and select a star to guide on, but that's wher it all started to fall apart...while the PhD software clearly recognised the mount I could see no evidence that it actually made it move. There is a manual guide menu option which brings up N, S, E, W buttons but they did nothing.

I could select the star and hit targeting and it would calibrate, but because no actual mount movement occured it quickly lost the lock and everything starts flashing red. Now I know I have an issue here with poor polar alignment, but surely the thing should at least "move" the telescope a bit.

I've poured over the properties making sure all the right things are checked, but nothing I do seems to allow the connection with the mount to actually move the mount. I tried the "N" setting which supposedly makes the corrections using the handset set slew speeds and turned it up high, jut to see if maybe it was defaulting to the slowest correction slew speed, but it didn't have any impact.

I've also come to the realisation that I really have no idea how to properly polar align a scope. I've never used the GoTo for that reason. For planetary pics it's never been a biggy, but now I feel totally out of my depth. A big problem I face is I have narrow observing window between house and trees so I cant see the southern pole area and I can't really drift align on stars near the horizon - any suggestions to help here?

On a brighter note I've also got Images Plus up and working and it controls the Canon 40D a treat. Managed to use it to get my focus close etc (that millimetre scale on the YO ED80's focus tube will be useful to find this again)...but even with 10s exposures I was star trailing.

Anyway, it's progress of a sort, but I could sure use some detailed advice, especially anyone with experience of Phd and ASCOm guiding via the Autostar controller.

thanks,

Rob
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Old 22-05-2008, 09:41 PM
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Tandum (Robin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_T View Post
I could select the star and hit targeting and it would calibrate, but because no actual mount movement occured it quickly lost the lock and everything starts flashing red. Now I know I have an issue here with poor polar alignment, but surely the thing should at least "move" the telescope a bit.
If it calibrates then it has moved the scope in 4 quadrents and has worked out which way the star moves in relation to the guide commands. It flashes red when tracking is lost. It does that to me if I knock the mount, swap a camera, or it clouds over, ETC.

I think you'll find actual scope movement will be miniscual and you will never be able to see or hear it move.
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Old 22-05-2008, 10:03 PM
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aiming for 2nd Halley's

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If it calibrates then it has moved the scope in 4 quadrents and has worked out which way the star moves in relation to the guide commands. It flashes red when tracking is lost. It does that to me if I knock the mount, swap a camera, or it clouds over, ETC.

I think you'll find actual scope movement will be miniscual and you will never be able to see or hear it move.
Thanks robin, from what you say then it might be that it is working, just not sufficiently to cope with the how far out my polar alignment is?

Have you ever used the manual guide menu option, can you see what happens there? I'd just feel a whole lot better if I could make it do something to prove there is some communication going on there?

cheers,

Rob
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Old 22-05-2008, 11:55 PM
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Tandum (Robin)
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bob,
Polar alignment has nothing to do with it. If your polar alignment and mount gears were perfect you would not need guiding. If I turned my mount arse about and guided on a star, the scope would stick to the star regardless of tripod placement. However, the less corrections the better so accurate polar is good.

My 450d arrived ... trying to get first light down to a size that will upload
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Old 23-05-2008, 04:57 AM
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aiming for 2nd Halley's

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bob,
Polar alignment has nothing to do with it. If your polar alignment and mount gears were perfect you would not need guiding. If I turned my mount arse about and guided on a star, the scope would stick to the star regardless of tripod placement. However, the less corrections the better so accurate polar is good.
Thanks Robin, well in that case mine isn't working, cos even with a fair start on polar alignment it never follows the star. Just a brief second or so it tries to calibrate, goes from yellow to green cross-hairs, loses it, sometimes tries again, but you can see the star never ceases in it"s steady one direction of drift.

Maybe with my setup connected via ascom guiding via the autostar controller with delay etc, and unknown slewing pulse effect etc, that getting the star reasonably stable to start tracking is more important than with your HEQ5 which you'd be guiding diretly via the ST4 port.. grasping at straws here...

Do you know of any way that will allow me to test whether the PC is actually sending pulses to the mount and that the mount understands them.
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Old 23-05-2008, 06:08 AM
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[1ponders] (Paul)
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Rob, do you have a GPUSB or know of someone who might be able to lend you one? That may be the issue.

Any chance of coming up to the Cambroon night weekend after next? One nights demonstration could save you a heap of headaches.
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Old 23-05-2008, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by [1ponders] View Post
Rob, do you have a GPUSB or know of someone who might be able to lend you one? That may be the issue.

Any chance of coming up to the Cambroon night weekend after next? One nights demonstration could save you a heap of headaches.
Hi Paul, what's a GPUSB? I guess that means I don't have one. I did notice that as a menu option on Phd software. What's your feeling - the ascom not the way to go?

I'd love to come up to Cambroon - it would make soooo much sense with someone who knew what they were doing - and will see what I can do to get there. Problem is I'm already being given a severe cold (sub-zero) shoulder for recent astro purchases and the time I'm taking away from the family trying to get all this working when I'm just outside...it could be, let's say, "difficult".

cheers,

Rob
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Old 23-05-2008, 07:17 AM
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Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)
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Hey Rob - is this relevant to you at all? there are others with similar questions out there....

http://www.irishastronomy.org/boards...ic.php?p=67760
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Old 23-05-2008, 07:51 AM
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Rob

I have a similar set up to you and had quite a few problems getting it right.

One tip - you need to make sure you don't overload the mount. I have a SN 8" and an ED80 - too heavy to guide with sadly. I compromised and picked up a Stellarvue 60M finder. With a 2x barlow and a DSI it is light enough to use with the bigger scope.

Second tip - download the pulse guide driver for ASCOM from Craig Star's site.

Third tip - have a read about my efforts here - http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...light=phd+pete

You might find a solution in there somewhere

Furth tip - join the Yahoo users group for PHD. You'll probably find a solution among the FAQ. If not, post your query and you'll get a quick and helpful response. That was my experience.

Hope that helps - oh, and have a crack at drift alignment. You need to be close to guide sensibly. The best tutorial I found was on Cloudy Nights.

Good luck

Pete
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Old 23-05-2008, 09:34 AM
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Hey Rob - is this relevant to you at all? there are others with similar questions out there....

http://www.irishastronomy.org/boards...ic.php?p=67760
Thanks it does help me understand what might be happening... and makes my sadistic side feel better that there are others out there in pain
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Old 23-05-2008, 09:38 AM
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Yep - no worries.

One thing though - irrespective of whether you guide, the worse your actual polar alignment, the greater field rotation you'll suffer around the guide star in your photographs....
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Old 23-05-2008, 09:43 AM
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Rob


Second tip - download the pulse guide driver for ASCOM from Craig Star's site.

Pete

Thanks Pete - well I'm certainly not over-loaded, just the ED80 and that's it.

With the second tip I have now downloaded that and placed it (the.exe and .dll) in the directory where the other one (from ASCOM site) was, and renamed the old one. Just to confirm it is on the Stark Lab site as

"Looking for the Meade ASCOM driver from Jonathan that actually works on your #497 Autostar controller?"

What version of ASCOM platform are you using? I have vers 5, but noted some using 4.1. I tried that, uninstalling 5 and installing 4.1 and noticed a lot more options in the scope choice in PhD... but then I got blue screen of deathed and had to restore back to 5 and am frightened off trying again.

Bits I've read suggest there should be a check box for pulse guding somewhere in the properties screen, but i can't find one?

I've also joined the Yahoo group so thanks for that tip too... membership yet to be confirmed.

cheers,

Rob
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Old 23-05-2008, 10:04 AM
ozstockman (Mike)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_T View Post
Hi all, finally assembled all the software and hardware I think I need for this auto-guiding my LXD75 with autostar.. I've got PHD Guiding software and serial - 232 cable bought 232 to USB adaptor, downloaded the latest ASCOM platforms and read up on and got and loaded the right Meade driver for the LXD75.

Fired everything up, plugged in my phillips webcam... miracle the software recognised it, fired up the mount, miracle it found the right driver and I could select the mount and the program "saw" it...I could even do some looped images and find and focus and select a star to guide on, but that's wher it all started to fall apart...while the PhD software clearly recognised the mount I could see no evidence that it actually made it move. There is a manual guide menu option which brings up N, S, E, W buttons but they did nothing.
Hi Rob,



Have you tried to control your mount from your PC via ASCOM and the USB to serial adapter you have? Were you able to move your mount using directions buttons from any planetary or mount control software besides PHD when the mount is connected to your PC via ASCOM and the adapter?

If you never tried it I would recommend to put PHD aside for a while and make sure first that at least your USB to Serial adapter works and you can control your mount through it. This manual guide option in PHD is very tricky and I personally never saw it working when I used guiding via ASCOM. Everytime I used it it just hanged PHD and never moved my mount.

I guess you'll need to try ASCOM and USB-RS232 adapter first from some planetary software. Try it with CCD which is free. If it works you can go further with PHD and see what's wrong with it. However if it does not you will at least know that the main issue is with you serial connection to your mount. Sometimes these USB-RS232 adapters does not work properly.

cheers,

Mike

Last edited by ozstockman; 23-05-2008 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 23-05-2008, 01:29 PM
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Rob, I concur with Mike, you need to test your serial cable and USB to serial adapter with a Planetarium software first to see if you are in fact communicating with the mount. Where did you get this Serial cable to connect to your Autorstar from? Is it the right cable for the Autostar to connect to your PC? Some people have reported issues with certain usb to serial converters so that might be the next thing to check. If you dont have a planetarium software try CDC this is a freeware skychart software and i think it would be able to help you check if your laptop is communicating with the mount.

The Fact that the N-S-E-W buttons have not effect tells me that there is a communication error. These should let you slew the mount. In a Sky chart/Planetarium application you will have similar control to slew to objects.

Also in your setup A GPUSB would not help because you dont have a guide port to connect that to. Unless you can find a used Meade APM #909 module, which will add a guide port to your mount.

Regards
Fahim
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Old 23-05-2008, 01:46 PM
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Make sure you have ASCOM platform version 5A, not 5, there were a number of problems in 5.

Version 4.1 should work OK providing you fully uninstall Version 5, I have to use 4.1 as I have a program that dosen't like the 5A.

Cheers

John G
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Old 23-05-2008, 02:45 PM
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Thanks Guys, I'll try those suggestions, re trying CCD or similar to drive the mount. The USB to serial adaptor is a ritmo with vista drivers and cable made up according to meade pin-out specs...

I'm getting some advice over at the Stark Labs forum and will post whatever works here.

cheers,

Rob
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Old 23-05-2008, 09:08 PM
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Make sure you have ASCOM platform version 5A, not 5, there were a number of problems in 5.

Version 4.1 should work OK providing you fully uninstall Version 5, I have to use 4.1 as I have a program that dosen't like the 5A.

Cheers

John G
Thanks John - is there a special way to uninstall 5. I just went to control panel add and remove programs and uninstalled it from there?

By the way where did you get your ASCOM 4.1 from?

cheers,

Rob
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Old 23-05-2008, 09:47 PM
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Hi

Just unistall it from Add/Remove Programs.

I have had Version 4.1 for years, found it was the most stable, the recent upgrade to version 5 had a number of problems hence the upgrade to 5A.

You can download Version 4.1 from here: http://www.deepskysoftware.net/downl...yz/ascom41.exe


Cheers

John G
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Old 24-05-2008, 06:47 AM
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a step forward!

Thanks for the tip on CCD (Cartes sky software) this is amazing. I can't believe it's freeware. Worth posting this thread just to find this

Anyway, good news is I can connect to and slew the telescope with this program while I'm running ASCOM5 and the latest meade driver from the Stark web-site. SO at least I know all my connections are OK

Will try again with PhD tonight
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Old 24-05-2008, 10:04 AM
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Rob, in a recent similar thread of mine one user posted there similar thread
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...light=phd+pete
Which may help you as its about your situation. Make note of his last post.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...4&postcount=19

I dont know why this did not occur to me before. As this user had very similar problems to you.

Regards
Fahim
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