I'm a photographer and have lots of lovely high end canon gear. I was just wondering if I could maybe get some recommendations with astrophotography in mind. I'd prefer to not use dedicated CCD imagers but would like to use my cameras and lenses as I know them back to front and have seen great results from them by trawling the web.
So far from reading countless beginner guides and lots of web pages, I'm kinda leaning towards the meade lx200 range, either a 8" or a 10" - probably the 10. To be honest even the 12" tempted me until I saw it was 68kg - which I think might be pushing portability a bit far - though it still intrigues me.
Another option would be the celestron 11".
I'm aware all these are v.expensive but I don't want to buy a 4" or 6" and then later on wish that I had bought bigger - I live "in the sticks" and have nice dark skies and a massive garage in my backyard where I can leave the telescope permanently assembled and roll it out when needed. I will take it in the car very occasionally but this would not be common. I have a wagon and 4wd for this.
I'd be very interested in comments from those who know this stuff a lot better than me as to ;
- if the above scopes are quite good for what I want
- if a different kind would be better - i.e. not a schmidt cassegrain.
- if the celestron is better than meade or vice versa. my impression from the web articles I have found is that the celestron is better built, but it does attract a price premium and the meade is still quite decent.
- I'd be super interested if anyone in here from sydney has one of those scopes or similar and wouldn't mind letting me have a look one night.
The camera to attach would be a Canon 5D or 1Ds MK2 with probably a 35/1.4 or a 85/1.2 or a 16-35/2.8. I have other lenses but guess those are probably the relevant ones.
Your cameras sound wonderful - the EOS DSLR's are very nice indeed.
Using cameras like the EOS 1D sets the bar very high.
In astrophotography the most important thing is the mount / pier and footing. You cannot afford to compromise on these, so expect to spend more on the mount combination than the 'scope. As a start you will need to select the hardware and determine the weight of what you are going to put on the mount. Eg. You may have a telescope and camera and an auxillary guide 'scope for off axis guiding plus sub-mount for the guide 'scope. As a rule of thumb I would select a mount that can carry 150% of that weight.
For large sensors (EOS 1) you need a 'telescope that provides a large flat and well corrected field (at least 40mm diameter un-vignetted image circle).
The telescopes that provide these will be refractors like the Tak. FSQ104 that has a 4" focuser or a fast RC camera like the Tak. BBRC 250.
For smaller image sensors you cannot go past the F2.8 Tak. Epsilon series astrographs.
Having said that you would have to look at the suitability of using a normal DSLR for deep sky photography as they have filters that cut-out most of the red emissions from nebulae and are generally more noisy than cooled CCD's. But for medium length exposures (say 5 mins.) you could get some stunning widefield pics.
Wow sorry Gav, I missed this thread.
Welcome to IIS.
Awesome Canon gear you have there.
I agree with Jerry, the mount is what will play a huge roll in the quality of your work.
There's a lot of people using the Losmandy G11 mount and it's got great payload capabilities.
I'd be leaning towards Celestron for a SCT, generally the quality is better from what I hear although the Meade LX200R is yielding some excellent results for one of our members, Tony (Striker).
You'll also be able to do some fantastic widefields using your Canon lenses.
These fast lenses are perfect for astro work.
Do you have any other longer FL lenses?
If you're in the Sydney area, we meet up at Kulnura every new moon.
Perhaps you could come up if it's not too far for you.
BTW if you are looking at a Meade Fork mount setup, you'll also need to get a wedge for an equatorial set-up since the fork mount is alt-az and not suitable for long exposures.
The mount is what it's all about...get a nice solid mount and you can put virtualy anything on it...without being stupid
The FSQ is a wonderful scope...it's going to give you a very widefield of view and is really dedicated for CCD work more then DSLR's...if your going with DSLR I would look at something with a longer focal length then the FSQ 530mm FL.
A focal range between 1000mm-2000mm is a good place to start unless all you want to do is widefield imaging then any short focal length will do.
Firstly I'd love to meet up and check out the different scopes - I have a wild instinct to go and lash out at Bintel but am resisting as much as I can until I am 100% sure. Kulnura is about 2hrs from me - I don't mind - do you know when the next meet is?
This thread took a while to get any replies on So I have been talking to some guys on the cloudy nights forums in the meantime and am almost decided (I think!)
With my canon gear, my lenses are (I'm a wedding photog) ;
- 16-35/2.8
- 35/1.4
- 85/1.2
- 135/2
- 300/2.8
On the cloudy nights forums, they seem to be discouraging the use of a SCT due to the inherently long focal length/narrow field of view. However I would like the lx200 to just look through for funs sake, and for my wifes sake as although photography is my main interest I won't be doing it 100% of the time and she certainly won't be.
Heres the choices I seem to be with at the moment after talking to the cloudy nights guys ;
Firstly, they have all recommended a GEM which Bintel sell for $2399, the EQ6Pro. I think this is known as an atlas eq-g in the states.
Option 1 -
EQ6Pro + Meade 10" lx200r OTA with Canon DSLR piggybacked - this is my current favourite option as it's obviously a big contrast between the 2.
Option 2 -
EQ6Pro + Meade 10" lx200r OTA with Orion ED 80mm APO with Canon DSLR attacked to Orion. My concern with this is I don't think the Orion 80mm would be massively different to my existing canon lenses, I know it's double the focal length but it's also a low slower aperture wise, the slowest aperture on my camera lenses is f/2.8.
Option 3 -
Meade 8" LXD75 SN with Canon DSLR either piggybacked of attached directly to the scope depending on focal length requirements. The SN is much brighter than a lx200 - f/4 vs f/10.
As stated option 1 is my current fave though I'm happy to be talked out of it. The lxd75 has me intrigued though, being a brighter scope.
How about an eq6 and an 80mm (triplet can be had for $1500 or doublet around $500) I suggest that because you can use it for a guide scope and a very good capture scope and add it to the scope set up you finally select. Much fine widefiled work is done with an 80mm. For my money given the lens and gear you have shot thru the camera and its lens using the 80mm as a guider.. That will keep you occupied. Have a look at some of the wide fields using canon standard lens (I got some good ones with only a 300d and standard lens and found it very satisfying, more so than narrower fields actually)
My final choice eq6, 80mm triplet, 9.25 or 11 inch celestron with a usablable piggy back mount to hold cameras securely
Anyways whatever you get there will be another more appealing thats part of this hobby there are always greener fields to infinity
alex
Better chech this but I think with the celestron you can remove the seconary and place a astro cam there to get shorter f/l's that is a neat feature if the dream is delivered
alex
this is what I had in mind, given you are a photographer you may want an astro camera sooner rather than later.. cooling mmm less noise fainter objects longer exposures ..I would think about it thats all as for a main ota its a versatile setup.
alex
I use pretty much the same setup as you option 2, the only difference is I have the older 8" meade and have a Losmandy G11. This is an extremely versatile setup, especially if you include a 6.3 focal reducer into the system. It will drop the Orion from 7.5 down to 4.73 or the SCT to f6.3 . Throw in a barlow/powermate and a ToUcam and with your existing lenses you are set to image just about anything you can think of, from the moon and planets in high res detail out to the sprawling stellar vistas of the milky way. Throw in a Solar filter or PST and you even have the sun covered
Yes there are better scopes around (though the Meade R series seem to be doing extremely well), but the Orion is probably the best value for money "semi-apo" scope going atm. While the f4 SN might seem like a great idea, and photographically it probably is, as a first imaging scope, personally I think you will find it very challenging to get the most out of it. Particularly in relation to its demanding collimation and very small critical focus range.
Because it will give you the best options for the future.
My only concern is that I'm not sure if the EQ6 will handle this load.
Someone else can answer this.
EQ6Pro + Meade 10" lx200r OTA with Orion ED 80mm APO with Canon DSLR attached to Orion.
With a setup like this you can image at least three different ways.
1. Thru the Meade at both f/10 and with a Focal reducer at f/6.3
2. Thru the ED80, again at f/7.5 or with a reducer at around f/5
3. piggyback one of your awesome primes on the scopes and do super wide fields or up closer with higher F.L. lenses
I've used the 85mm f/1.2 for a single shot widefield. See this link.
Lovely shot What mount was it on? Thats the sort of shot I am interested in making. Respect to the 85/1.2 I've done some neat star trails on a tripod in my backyard but haven't got anything to 'track' the stars.
I've sent a pm to striker to ask him if he still likes his lx200! though i expect it to be yes.
Mounting all 3 does scare me a bit though don from bintel seems to think it'll be ok?? I guess lenses like the 85 and 135 are ok but the 300mm is a serious bit of glass and pretty hefty.
Do you think it might be worthwhile to just get the lx200 to begin with and put the 5D on top of it, and then a little later when I've got a bit more of a grasp on things to get the 80mm? Or do you think I should grab the whole lot at once
cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Boy
Gav if I had to choose, I'd choose option 2.
Why?
Because it will give you the best options for the future.
My only concern is that I'm not sure if the EQ6 will handle this load.
Someone else can answer this.
EQ6Pro + Meade 10" lx200r OTA with Orion ED 80mm APO with Canon DSLR attached to Orion.
With a setup like this you can image at least three different ways.
1. Thru the Meade at both f/10 and with a Focal reducer at f/6.3
2. Thru the ED80, again at f/7.5 or with a reducer at around f/5
3. piggyback one of your awesome primes on the scopes and do super wide fields or up closer with higher F.L. lenses
I've used the 85mm f/1.2 for a single shot widefield. See this link.
thanks heaps for the info. With the FL reducers, do they cost you much in optical quality?
I'm just asking this as based in the photo world, you can use a teleconverter to increase a lens focal length (FL increaser I guess you could call it) but as a result of using the teleconverter you first of all lose a stop (or 2) of light and secondly it costs you a bit of image sharpness when using the lens at it's widest aperture - does the same sort of issues occur with a FL reducer?
cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by [1ponders]
Hi sejanus.
I use pretty much the same setup as you option 2, the only difference is I have the older 8" meade and have a Losmandy G11. This is an extremely versatile setup, especially if you include a 6.3 focal reducer into the system. It will drop the Orion from 7.5 down to 4.73 or the SCT to f6.3 . Throw in a barlow/powermate and a ToUcam and with your existing lenses you are set to image just about anything you can think of, from the moon and planets in high res detail out to the sprawling stellar vistas of the milky way. Throw in a Solar filter or PST and you even have the sun covered
Yes there are better scopes around (though the Meade R series seem to be doing extremely well), but the Orion is probably the best value for money "semi-apo" scope going atm. While the f4 SN might seem like a great idea, and photographically it probably is, as a first imaging scope, personally I think you will find it very challenging to get the most out of it. Particularly in relation to its demanding collimation and very small critical focus range.
Gav I'd go one step at a time.
You can always get the 80 ED later.
As for the Focal reducer you are actually gaining speed not multiplying the f.l so it makes the scope quicker.
The image quality doesn't suffer too much except for some vignetting but you can crop.
Wow you have some serious gear mate.
I'm glad you liked my image.
Cheers
PS oh I forgot that image was taken on an EM200 mount.
The reason I ask is that the gear I have is pretty much the best you can get for low light in the traditional photography world - are the dedicated CCD imagers really a step above that?
A combination of my lenses being f/1.4 to f/2.8 and the Canon 5D can do very good 800/1600 iso exposures - it can suck a lot of light in - I'd sure be interested if the ccd was better but it surprises me if they are (of course I'm discounting research/university grade stuff when i say that)
thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave
this is what I had in mind, given you are a photographer you may want an astro camera sooner rather than later.. cooling mmm less noise fainter objects longer exposures ..I would think about it thats all as for a main ota its a versatile setup.
alex
The EQ6 is rated up to 18.2 kg so it has a pretty good carrying capacity (slightly more than a Losmandy GM8 but less than the G11) and the 10", an 80ED plus camera and ancillary equipment will be pushing the limit (work with about 50%-60% of load for imaging) but there is a caveat here in that the lengths of the SCT and Orion are very short so there is much less lever arm movement than with a long reflector or refractor. I work right up to the limit with my GM8 with np and I believe it's the compactness of the ota combination that allows me to do this.
As for the focal reducers, you will increase your field of view so stars should look smaller and sharper anyway, plus if you have one designed for your OTA (ie an SCT FR for the SCT) then you should end up with a flatter and more usable imaging field. I'm still experimening using the SCT FR on the Orion atm but it looks promising.
![[1ponders]'s Avatar](../vbiis/customavatars/avatar45_9.gif){kind=avatar}
scope going atm. While the f4 SN might seem like a great idea, and photographically it probably is, as a first imaging scope, personally I think you will find it very challenging to get the most out of it. Particularly in relation to its demanding collimation and very small critical focus range.
to the family 
What mount was it on? Thats the sort of shot I am interested in making. Respect to the 85/1.2 
