Scopes from USA

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

Great thread please keep the comments coming guys, i believe in supporting local shops though when it comes to expensive gear, there is a huge amount of price gouging which can not be justified.

I am all for affordable prices but what evidence has anyone demonstrated to support a claim of pricing gouging...there are inherent differences in prices yes but gouging?

Having now managed businesses in the USA and Australia I can tell you with certainty that the cost of running a business in Australia is substantially higher especially with respect to employee wages and benefits. Different cost structures will drive different end pricing.

I make no judgment in the above statement as to which country is "better" to have a business, work or live as an argument can successfully be made both ways.

I do however take issue at the implication that anyone in the Australian retail Astro Gear Supply business is getting rich from price gouging...

[Barrykgerdes]

Scott says it all

If you live in Australia the benefits of the wage structure and protections that allow you to earn a living are much more lucrative than in most other countries. These are all paid for by very high overheads especially in the retail market.

If no one supports the Australian retail industry eventually all the jobs will be lost and you won't even have the money to buy cheap overseas goods.

Yes there are a few places with what seem to be abnormally high mark ups but the reputable shops need to sell at the lowest possible prices to compete with each other.

In Regard to GST. That is how the government raises money. It is obvious and easy to calculate. Other countries raise money by taxes too and some of them are rather obnoxious when compared to our GST

Barry

[Nikolas (Nik)]

A $2000 price differential for a celestron product is price gouging no ifs ands or buts. It's not the retailers but the importers/distributors who are reaping the benefits. Our dollar is above the US dollar.
If you notice the price differential with skywatcher products is similar globally but not so with Celestron.
I'll support retailers when they get into the importers/distributors ears about price gouging, until then I'll buy where my wallet allows me to.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

A $2000 price differential for a celestron product is price gouging no ifs ands or buts. It's not the retailers but the importers/distributors who are reaping the benefits. Our dollar is above the US dollar.
If you notice the price differential with skywatcher products is similar globally but not so with Celestron.
I'll support retailers when they get into the importers/distributors ears about price gouging, until then I'll buy where my wallet allows me to.

And that was my point a 2k difference is price gouging, $500 or so i can live with, but some of these pricing differences are just wrong.

[Rod771 (Rod)]

When I was in the market for a new scope, the first two local shops I went to did not stock Celestron, why? Because they couldn't sell them due price point and cited the distributor as reason why.

I even tried one of our online company's. At the time they didn't stock what I wanted, they could get it in however said that I'd be best importing.

[martyn01 (Lane)]

see even they say to import it so why dont they just import 10 of them and then sell them for an extra $100 each

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Originally Posted by martyn01

see even they say to import it so why dont they just import 10 of them and then sell them for an extra $100 each

They'd need to charge a bit more than $100 each to be worthwhile.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Originally Posted by martyn01

see even they say to import it so why dont they just import 10 of them and then sell them for an extra $100 each

Theres no local warranty with grey imports so then if they rock up with issues or broken, the shop is stuck with them. They could freight them back to the states, but thats alot of money if they come in one by one with problems from customers. Maybe also if they import expensive scopes to save money the distributor for Australia won't allow them to purchase cheaper gear and scopes due to selling grey imports.

[martyn01 (Lane)]

its just so hard no matter what you do your stuck, we cant get them cheap if you get one sent in and it brakes its on you if my comes broke im going to send it back COD with a tracking # stuff them

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

A $2000 price differential for a celestron product is price gouging no ifs ands or buts. It's not the retailers but the importers/distributors who are reaping the benefits. Our dollar is above the US dollar.
If you notice the price differential with skywatcher products is similar globally but not so with Celestron.
I'll support retailers when they get into the importers/distributors ears about price gouging, until then I'll buy where my wallet allows me to.

Or maybe it is Celestron who has a higher price to the Australian distributer...

If you are opposed to their pricing policy why buy a Celestron from anywhere?

It seems to me that buying a Celestron scope from overseas only hurts Australian based businesses...Celestron still makes a profit when you buy overseas...

I understand that we all want to pay "fair" price for goods and services but in this instance why support Celestron...

While I have never owned any of their gear, I assume there are more moderately priced local alternatives if budget is an issue...

[JB80 (Jarrod)]

Like Meade are any better with their pricing, why support Meade? It would be totally unfair to single out just the one manufacturer.
And yes, I think it is down to the manufacturers more so than anyone else. There wouldn't be a shipping embargo otherwise.

The main problem is that there aren't any moderately priced alternatives that can match up otherwise wouldn't we all have them?
They have the market cornered in certain areas and while the retailers in general do as best a job as they can in keeping the prices down is there any effort from the retailers being made to secure lower prices from the manufacturers?
Are they grouping together and saying we are losing business because of these high prices?
Are they calling for cheaper alternatives?

Maybe it needs to come from the dealers because neither Meade or Celestron care about the end users opinions but I'm not sure even they are interested in that. We are now getting UK dealers not even wanting to ship to the EU like they used to despite having no real reason not to beyond warranty and too much hard work. Oh well all the better for the Germans I suppose.

[raymo]

I think there are going to be a number of changes in the astro market
in coming months, what with Meade seemingly being in trouble, and
Celestron apparently being sold to the Chinese, and a plethora of new
equipment from Ioptron; and Skywatcher expanding their range rapidly.
The only problem is that if Meade should go down the gurgler, that
would leave Celestron as the only established mass producer of SCTs, which wouldn't be good for we consumers. Incidentally, in our rush
to complain about scope prices we seem to have to failed to notice
that prices have been falling for a long while. You can get a scope today
which only a few years ago would have been beyond many people's
wildest dreams. For example, a 10" dob for $599 delivered to your door,
or an 8" newt on an HEQ5 Pro Go To for $1599, also delivered.
I think we should be thankful for small mercies.
raymo

[JB80 (Jarrod)]

Originally Posted by raymo

Skywatcher expanding their range rapidly.
The only problem is that if Meade should go down the gurgler, that
would leave Celestron as the only established mass producer of SCTs, which wouldn't be good for we consumers.

I'm not certain Meade will end up going under, hope not anyway.

I did find these though, seem to be rebadged Celestrons as best I can tell.
http://www.skywatcher-india.com/schmidt_csc279.htm

With Synta owning Celestron it's unlikely SW would ever release a cut price SCT, these are being priced at Celestron prices although I can't find any Asian dealers to give an RRP on, maybe others may know.

The way I see it is it's not so much about cheaper alternatives, although it would be nice and especially if they held their own optically, it's just fairer pricing. That's all.

[Draco (Draco)]

Buying from US is cheaper but with lots of hassles. Buying locally is more expensive but you get local support and warranty.

Personally, I would not buy anything more than $AU500 without local warranty or support just because I dont want to spend my nights wondering how to fix that issue that has just cropped up on my investment or how I am just feeding a never ending abyss with money, repairing something that would be better off thrown out.

However, if I was travelling constantly to US or if I can get two units from US for the local price (all costs added), I would definetly buy from US.

Lately, Microsoft, Apple and Adobe have been pulled to the courts by the Govt, to explain why they charge so much more for software in Australia compared to what they do in US. Hopefully the same happens to other goods.. or if not then I truthful explanation (yea right!!) of the reason for the inflated costs would be nice

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Originally Posted by wavelandscott

Or maybe it is Celestron who has a higher price to the Australian distributer...

If you are opposed to their pricing policy why buy a Celestron from anywhere?

It seems to me that buying a Celestron scope from overseas only hurts Australian based businesses...Celestron still makes a profit when you buy overseas...

I understand that we all want to pay "fair" price for goods and services but in this instance why support Celestron...

While I have never owned any of their gear, I assume there are more moderately priced local alternatives if budget is an issue...

Are you deliberately missing the point?
You live in the STATES so don't see the blatant ripoffs we have our here.
If you did live here why move to the states?
Seriously dude money talks ripoffs walk and as I have said over and over it's NOT the retailers it's the importer/distributors who are the problem.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Originally Posted by Draco

Buying from US is cheaper but with lots of hassles. Buying locally is more expensive but you get local support and warranty.

Personally, I would not buy anything more than $AU500 without local warranty or support just because I dont want to spend my nights wondering how to fix that issue that has just cropped up on my investment or how I am just feeding a never ending abyss with money, repairing something that would be better off thrown out.

However, if I was travelling constantly to US or if I can get two units from US for the local price (all costs added), I would definetly buy from US.

Lately, Microsoft, Apple and Adobe have been pulled to the courts by the Govt, to explain why they charge so much more for software in Australia compared to what they do in US. Hopefully the same happens to other goods.. or if not then I truthful explanation (yea right!!) of the reason for the inflated costs would be nice

Thats why there's newgroups and torrents haha, adobe really need to start non-commercial based licenses, because it won't being long before nearly every users is using a pirate copy. I really haven't seen much on the software front in terms of region pricing differences might have to look around.

[Draco (Draco)]

Hi 2stroke

thought you might like a read of this story about how Adobe is overcharging us Ozzies

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...214-2eetr.html

[netwolf]

Sorry but I cant resist this one. Its like a moth to a flame.

If you want Warranty then there are still ways to get this with US purchases. One example is Priceusa (no affiliation with me) offer Shipping return insurance to help with exactly this type of situation. Other similar freight forwarding setups would no doubt offer similar solutions.

From what I know these scopes are made in China so I would assume the ship direct from China to Australia not via USA. But when comparing many people add Shipping costs on top of the USA price i dont think this is accurate as the US price would include shipping from China to USA.

So the only variation is 10% GST plus overhead of operating in Australia with smaller market vs USA. Still other manufactures like Takahahia, Vixen seem to offer there products in Australia at similar prices to that which are offered in USA. Recently recall a thread where someone had bought a Tak scope locally rather than from USA as the price was better.

Celestron 8" HD AUS 2500 USA 1300 diff of 1200
Celestron 11" HD AUS 5700 USA 3400 diff of 2300
Celestron 14" HD AUS 9000 USA 5800 diff of 3200

This is better than in the past but still high. I have raised this directly with Celestron and they have advised this is totally up to the local distributor. And they refuse to comment on this.

What I do find interesting is Synta/Skywatcher products seem to recently be more in line with US pricing. The AZ-EQ6 , 2299 USA and locally 2299. How is this possible?

Synta own Celestron and I would assume ship direct to Australia from China. And I would imagine an EQ6 mount weighs quiet a bit more than most of the afore mentioned OTA's.

Food for thought.

[JB80 (Jarrod)]

[QUOTE=netwolf;966787]Celestron and they have advised this is totally up to the local distributor. And they refuse to comment on this.
[QUOTE]

A familiar theme, not sure it is totally up to the distributor despite that that is the official line and seeing as both manufacturer or dealers choose to remain silent about the issue we can only assume it's these distributors who have us with our pants down and calling the shots.
Who are the distributors anyway, over here nobody wants to say?

I did a quick price compare after seeing yours and it's a similar story.

I looked at 2 UK shops for the C14HD and cheapest was £7000, that's $10,300AUD.
I suspect another retailer may stock them cheaper but they don't advertise the price.

The Germans seem the most reasonable as their C14HD come in just under $9000AUD.

I also looked at what will be one of the closest shops to me when we move to Spain and the price goes back up to $10,000AUD.

So we are left to believe that the product leaves the factory at exactly the same cost price as the US product and the distributors are making thousands per scope in some cases once it's off the ship just by doing a job that fed ex can do at a lot less cost. That is if you believe that story to begin with. Which I don't.
The European market is a huge market too so somebody is making a killing, I wonder how legal that all is here?

[lazjen (Chris)]

Well, Celestron can rack up another lost sale. I was looking at the CGEM DX 1100 HD but the excessive US to AU price difference has basically put me off.

I'm going to get another setup where I can source it from local dealers instead, where the product's AU price is more "appropriate".