I use Eq6r pro and 8 inch newt with moonlite focuser and stepper motor , ZWO asi 1600 for imaging.
I can image less because of time I have to put in to setup every time. As my rig is covered but I have to use laptop for other purposes.
I am looking forward to invest in eagle 4 to ease this hassle.
Looking forward for your views on same.
Any reason you want the Eagle?
I looked into them when I first started out too. They definitely have some pluses going for them
- Windows Enterprise.. no updates when you don't want them!
- great form factor. Mounts in a lot of places and can mount a guide scope on top as well. Can even use it as a counterweight.
- support for the excellent Eagle Eye system
- LOADS of ports, all configurable
But the downsides outweigh the pluses, IMO, so I ended up getting a Mini PC and Pegasus Powerbox Advance instead.
- Proprietary connectors. This is nice in that they're big, reliable and they lock, but they're EXPENSIVE, and they could have easily gone with a more open standard.
- the price is absolutely ludicrous, because the CPUs are very old. You can build a far faster NUC system with a Pegasus for half the price easily. My system was about 1/4 the price of a comparable Eagle.
- Windows Enterprise is good, but sometimes you do need to update it. PLL own the license so you have to contact them if you need to upgrade. Silly.
- Some issues with QHY cooled cameras upon startup (QHY cameras power to 100% instantly, and this can shut down the Eagle).
Honestly, if the Eagles were 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of what they are, they'd be a good alternative to the NUC/Pegasus option. But the price is, frankly, insane.
If you don't mind can you share which mini PC you have opted for?
Regards
Sushen
Sure. I purchased a Beelink U55. It's been replaced by the newer U59.
Note you can also get a well regarded MeLE Quieter3PC which has the same CPU as the U59 and is very very small. It has one less USB port, but if you're running the Pegasus as well, that's not an issue.
Any reason you want the Eagle?
I looked into them when I first started out too. They definitely have some pluses going for them
- Windows Enterprise.. no updates when you don't want them!
- great form factor. Mounts in a lot of places and can mount a guide scope on top as well. Can even use it as a counterweight.
- support for the excellent Eagle Eye system
- LOADS of ports, all configurable
But the downsides outweigh the pluses, IMO, so I ended up getting a Mini PC and Pegasus Powerbox Advance instead.
- Proprietary connectors. This is nice in that they're big, reliable and they lock, but they're EXPENSIVE, and they could have easily gone with a more open standard.
- the price is absolutely ludicrous, because the CPUs are very old. You can build a far faster NUC system with a Pegasus for half the price easily. My system was about 1/4 the price of a comparable Eagle.
- Windows Enterprise is good, but sometimes you do need to update it. PLL own the license so you have to contact them if you need to upgrade. Silly.
- Some issues with QHY cooled cameras upon startup (QHY cameras power to 100% instantly, and this can shut down the Eagle).
Honestly, if the Eagles were 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of what they are, they'd be a good alternative to the NUC/Pegasus option. But the price is, frankly, insane.
I own an Eagle 4 and have no issues updating the OS. Its just the same as any Windows OS very easy to update. PrimaLuceLab Eagle's are an Intel NUC at the end of the day with added functionality i.e. USB3/USB2 Hubs, Dew Control, Sky Quality Meter and Power Control. I agree that the 4x power cables are Proprietary but they are a one off payment at $60 each for the full cable or you can make your own and buy the connector for $22. I use 3x power cables from my Eagle - camera, focuser and mount with one spare.
I owned a Pegasus Power Box before the Eagle and would never go back. The Powerbox still needs something like a NUC to control everything plus all the cables running from the Powerbox to the NUC can get a little messy whereas the Eagle is cleaner with less cables.
The Eagle is very well made in a strong aluminum case. I have a dovetail clamp bolted to the top of my Eagle and my scopes sits on top of the Eagle
I own an Eagle 4 and have no issues updating the OS. Its just the same as any Windows OS very easy to update. PrimaLuceLab Eagle's are an Intel NUC at the end of the day with added functionality i.e. USB3/USB2 Hubs, Dew Control, Sky Quality Meter and Power Control. I agree that the 4x power cables are Proprietary but they are a one off payment at $60 each for the full cable or you can make your own and buy the connector for $22. I use 3x power cables from my Eagle - camera, focuser and mount with one spare.
I owned a Pegasus Power Box before the Eagle and would never go back. The Powerbox still needs something like a NUC to control everything plus all the cables running from the Powerbox to the NUC can get a little messy whereas the Eagle is cleaner with less cables.
The Eagle is very well made in a strong aluminum case. I have a dovetail clamp bolted to the top of my Eagle and my scopes sits on top of the Eagle
To each his own, but if PLL just took off 1/3 the cost of the Eagles, I'd get one. The convenience is great, the design and versatility is great, but the price, especially for older generation CPUs, is a bit of a joke.
To each his own, but if PLL just took off 1/3 the cost of the Eagles, I'd get one. The convenience is great, the design and versatility is great, but the price, especially for older generation CPUs, is a bit of a joke.
Price up a NUC with all the components then include a PowerBox Advanced and a SQM Meter - you are not going to be very far off the price of an Eagle which is currently $2,400 from Testar. Not that I'm trying to justify the price to you but the Eagle is worth it in my opinion and a lot less cables than with a NUC and PPBA.
You read the CN post wrong, he's saying that Windows means updates so he's disabled Windows updates so as not to update itself during an imaging session.
From the CN post you linked.
Finally...
Downside is you now have a full version of WE10 Pro on the eagle and that means updates - I disable updates if I am imaging - be warned!
Price up a NUC with all the components then include a PowerBox Advanced and a SQM Meter - you are not going to be very far off the price of an Eagle which is currently $2,400 from Testar. Not that I'm trying to justify the price to you but the Eagle is worth it in my opinion and a lot less cables than with a NUC and PPBA.
Okay, let's have a go
A NUC? Maybe. But NUCs aren't the only game in town. Let's look at a Bee-link U59 instead. Or a MeLE Quieter3 (but we'll stick to the U59 for now)
Total $889 for these. I'm not going to factor in cable costs because that's a solid win for the PC+Pegasus.
Now let's compare the CPU performance, which is where I REALLY don't like the Eagles and why I think is the main reason they are overpriced.
The baseline Eagle 4 (not the LE, that thing is a joke) uses a Celeron J4005. Upping the game to an Eagle 4 S gives you an i3-8145U. Going to the top tier of the 4 Pro gives you an i5 8365U. But don't forget the cost:
Eagle 4: $1,549
Eagle 4S: $2,399
Eagle 4 Pro: $3,299
Bee-link U59 + Pegasus: $889
The Bee-link comes second. Let that sink in for bit. The cheapest out of all of them by a significant margin only falls to the top range i5. The Eagle 4S is not bad at single-threaded performance, but not by much more. But for almost 3 times the cost. And it is also a 10W part, unlike the 15W parts of the i3 and i5.
And only 4GB of RAM on the Eagle 4 as well
There's simply no way the Eagles provide performance value.
I'm not at all against paying money for quality products but the Eagles offer bad performance for what you're paying for them.
If PLL ever update the CPUs in these, then they become viable for me.
I looked at getting an Eagle a long time ago, because I think the concept is excellent. The hardware is top notch, and whilst I don't like the cable cost, I think those cables are actually great. It's just a crazy amount of money to pay for something that can be bested in terms of performance with almost no effort from an alternative that can cost almost 3 times as less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitt
You read the CN post wrong, he's saying that Windows means updates so he's disabled Windows updates so as not to update itself during an imaging session.
From the CN post you linked.
Finally...
Downside is you now have a full version of WE10 Pro on the eagle and that means updates - I disable updates if I am imaging - be warned!
Hmm.. are we reading the same thread? These are the quotes I picked up
Quote:
As the Eagle 2/3 has a fixed OS with Windows 10 LTSB 2015 installed on the Eagle 2 and LTSB 2016 installed in the Eagle 3 means that SGP 3.1 and other apps requiring .NET 4.7 onwards will fail.
and
Quote:
You are unable to install the latest .NET versions as this will fail with an error about incompatible OS - even trying to install the LTSB version of .NET also fails.
After some reading you can install Windows 10 LTSC but this was not straight forward and there was conflicting information as to whether it would do an in place upgrade retaining data and apps (like the important AP-Host mode setups and Eagle Manager etc) plus all your hard work config'ing SGP / PHD2 etc etc!
and
Quote:
Since writing this I also heard from Primaluce who acknowledge the issue and offered a not so helpful answer to do what I have done here or return it and get them to upgrade it at a cost of post and LTSC licence .. 85 USD .. not helpful given it was meant to be an IOT device...
and
Quote:
Thats the main reason mine was returned, the software is not licensed to you....In my case I could not install N.I.N.A. for the same reason....
and
Quote:
Today I sent message to Primalucelab and waiting for answer. If they will ask to send Egle 2 it is not acceptable for me. For me is surpize that I bought device with Windows that licenced not to me. It is а bad practic.
The whole point is that out of the box, you don't own the license to the installation. You have to manually switch over to Windows 10 yourself so you can get Windows updates.
Anyway... long story short:
I like the concept of the Eagles. The idea is fantastic. I would love other companies to try, and in fact I even asked Pegasus Astro if they wanted to (they don't - they think the MiniPC/NUC model is better).
I just don't think you're getting good performance out of the Eagles and for the extra bits you ARE getting, well I don't think it's worth almost 4 times as much as an alternative.
(just to be clear, there's no personal go at anyone who wants to buy these things what we do with our money is our own business, I'm just giving my opinion on the device as I see it based on the factors outlined above)
In future, I hope to be an Eagle owner, but only when I see the issues I've raised above are fixed to my own satisfaction.
Okay, let's have a go
A NUC? Maybe. But NUCs aren't the only game in town. Let's look at a Bee-link U59 instead. Or a MeLE Quieter3 (but we'll stick to the U59 for now)
Total $889 for these. I'm not going to factor in cable costs because that's a solid win for the PC+Pegasus.
Now let's compare the CPU performance, which is where I REALLY don't like the Eagles and why I think is the main reason they are overpriced.
The baseline Eagle 4 (not the LE, that thing is a joke) uses a Celeron J4005. Upping the game to an Eagle 4 S gives you an i3-8145U. Going to the top tier of the 4 Pro gives you an i5 8365U. But don't forget the cost:
Eagle 4: $1,549
Eagle 4S: $2,399
Eagle 4 Pro: $3,299
Bee-link U59 + Pegasus: $889
The Bee-link comes second. Let that sink in for bit. The cheapest out of all of them by a significant margin only falls to the top range i5. The Eagle 4S is not bad at single-threaded performance, but not by much more. But for almost 3 times the cost. And it is also a 10W part, unlike the 15W parts of the i3 and i5.
And only 4GB of RAM on the Eagle 4 as well
There's simply no way the Eagles provide performance value.
I'm not at all against paying money for quality products but the Eagles offer bad performance for what you're paying for them.
If PLL ever update the CPUs in these, then they become viable for me.
I looked at getting an Eagle a long time ago, because I think the concept is excellent. The hardware is top notch, and whilst I don't like the cable cost, I think those cables are actually great. It's just a crazy amount of money to pay for something that can be bested in terms of performance with almost no effort from an alternative that can cost almost 3 times as less.
Hmm.. are we reading the same thread? These are the quotes I picked up
and
and
and
and
The whole point is that out of the box, you don't own the license to the installation. You have to manually switch over to Windows 10 yourself so you can get Windows updates.
Anyway... long story short:
I like the concept of the Eagles. The idea is fantastic. I would love other companies to try, and in fact I even asked Pegasus Astro if they wanted to (they don't - they think the MiniPC/NUC model is better).
I just don't think you're getting good performance out of the Eagles and for the extra bits you ARE getting, well I don't think it's worth almost 4 times as much as an alternative.
But as always, YMMV.
A direct comparison would be the Pocket Powerbox Ultimate which offers similar functionally to the Eagle 4 and is $1,055 from Testar. PrimaLuceLab Eagles are Intel NUC based so your Beelink/Mele comparison is pointless. Then there's a SQM meter that you failed to include which is an additional $240 for a basic non ASCOM unit...
You stated that you couldn't update the OS on the Eagle, which is wrong, it’s the same as any Windows OS with regular/frequent updates.
Like I said, I'm not trying to justify the cost to you, you either like the product or you don't and its clear which camp you are in but don’t matter-of-factly offer the wrong information about a product because you read it on a forum somewhere. Why would a company like PrimaLuceLab put together a premium based Windows product that you can't update?
A direct comparison would be the Pocket Powerbox Ultimate which offers similar functionally to the Eagle 4 and is $1,055 from Testar. PrimaLuceLab Eagles are Intel NUC based so your Beelink/Mele comparison is pointless. Then there's a SQM meter that you failed to include which is an additional $240 for a basic non ASCOM unit...
You stated that you couldn't update the OS on the Eagle, which is wrong, it’s the same as any Windows OS with regular/frequent updates.
Like I said, I'm not trying to justify the cost to you, you either like the product or you don't and its clear which camp you are in but don’t matter-of-factly offer the wrong information about a product because you read it on a forum somewhere. Why would a company like PrimaLuceLab put together a premium based Windows product that you can't update?
You seem to be taking this a bit personally. Please don't. We can discuss a product, and have our own opinions about it respectfully with each other.
I included the Pocket Powerbox Advance not the Ultimate because you mentioned that as a comparison, not me.
Eagles being NUC based is irrelevant to the point. They are still bested by a Celeron in a mini-PC format (which for practical purposes, is identical to a NUC)
You're also right by my not adding a $240 SQM meter. Including that cost still puts it significantly under the Eagle, even the cheapest one.
As for matter of fact wrong information, what was wrong with what I posted? I was only directly quoting what was in a thread by other owners? More than one person in that thread said that it comes with a version of Windows not licensed to them and that they couldn't upgrade it unless they switched to Windows 10. If that has changed in recent times, fair enough.
You seem to be taking this a bit personally. Please don't. We can discuss a product, and have our own opinions about it respectfully with each other.
I included the Pocket Powerbox Advance not the Ultimate because you mentioned that as a comparison, not me.
Eagles being NUC based is irrelevant to the point. They are still bested by a Celeron in a mini-PC format (which for practical purposes, is identical to a NUC)
You're also right by my not adding a $240 SQM meter. Including that cost still puts it significantly under the Eagle, even the cheapest one.
As for matter of fact wrong information, what was wrong with what I posted? I was only directly quoting what was in a thread by other owners? More than one person in that thread said that it comes with a version of Windows not licensed to them and that they couldn't upgrade it unless they switched to Windows 10. If that has changed in recent times, fair enough.
I'm not taking anything personally, I'm more than happy to debate this all day as I have first hand experience after owning both an Eagle and prior to the Eagle a NUC and PPBU. The Eagle is by far the better option for me.
I was quoting you from your original statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJL
But the downsides outweigh the pluses, IMO, so I ended up getting a Mini PC and Pegasus Powerbox Advance instead.
I'm taking myself out of this conversation, have a good one Adam.
Happy Eagle 3 owner here. Yes it was a little expensive but you get a tidy, compact and easy to use setup with all you need. I have no issues with Windows updates fwiw. As for the CPU, well yes you could get more power for the $$$ - but then how much do you need - I don't use this for processing only capture and guiding and it has plenty enough grunt for that. The Eagle4's are better than my 3....so for me it just works.
Happy Eagle 3 owner here. Yes it was a little expensive but you get a tidy, compact and easy to use setup with all you need. I have no issues with Windows updates fwiw. As for the CPU, well yes you could get more power for the $$$ - but then how much do you need - I don't use this for processing only capture and guiding and it has plenty enough grunt for that. The Eagle4's are better than my 3....so for me it just works.
I am using a second hand Eagle 4 128gig drive with 8gig of RAM on one of my systems. It seems to operate all the equipment well in a remote setting. Albeit, that the GPS does not appear to work and the Eye says 40.53 every night. Though I did not buy it for that subsidiary equipment.
I agree it is an expensive solution when new, but certainly made sense to me given all the power, USB units and the price second hand. Storage can even be plugged into one USB dedicated for dumping data when imaging.
My advice is that you'll need to consider spending a fair bit of time configuring the unit if anyone buys one. Looking for other computers on the network may mean you'll need to mount the external computer onto the drive in order to see it (not physically, but using software). We needed to do a registry edit to allow this to happen.
I have also found it will not update for some reason. Perhaps this is deliberate to prevent issues with the PLL software.
I am using a second hand Eagle 4 128gig drive with 8gig of RAM on one of my systems. It seems to operate all the equipment well in a remote setting. Albeit, that the GPS does not appear to work and the Eye says 40.53 every night. Though I did not buy it for that subsidiary equipment.
I agree it is an expensive solution when new, but certainly made sense to me given all the power, USB units and the price second hand. Storage can even be plugged into one USB dedicated for dumping data when imaging.
My advice is that you'll need to consider spending a fair bit of time configuring the unit if anyone buys one. Looking for other computers on the network may mean you'll need to mount the external computer onto the drive in order to see it (not physically, but using software). We needed to do a registry edit to allow this to happen.
I have also found it will not update for some reason. Perhaps this is deliberate to prevent issues with the PLL software.
GPS can be a little hit n miss if the GPS antennae is close to a USB 3 cable due to interference, I overcome this by buying an external GPS antenna something similar to this https://www.iot-store.com.au/product...meter-sma-male
Latest Eagle 4 firmware is 4.2 from memory (been awhile since I used my Eagle due to weather). Easy enough to update (needs to be updated manually) you just need to copy the EagleManager.exe file to the directory, Details are on the download section of the Eagle update page https://www.primalucelab.com/info/downloads.html
GPS can be a little hit n miss if the GPS antennae is close to a USB 3 cable due to interference, I overcome this by buying an external GPS antenna something similar to this https://www.iot-store.com.au/product...meter-sma-male
Latest Eagle 4 firmware is 4.2 from memory (been awhile since I used my Eagle due to weather). Easy enough to update (needs to be updated manually) you just need to copy the EagleManager.exe file to the directory, Details are on the download section of the Eagle update page https://www.primalucelab.com/info/downloads.html
I have a couple of those antennae and had slipped my mind to use one of those. Thanks for the tip.
I have installed the 4.2 firmware but that did not help with the Eye unfortunately.
I have a couple of those antennae and had slipped my mind to use one of those. Thanks for the tip.
I have installed the 4.2 firmware but that did not help with the Eye unfortunately.
May be worth trying the Eye on the other side of the Eagle just to see if it works ok, they just unscrew and is an easy way to check. Never had any issues with my SQM meter as is fairly accurate.
