Electric Vehicles

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by gary

Thanks Glenn,

And looking at the graphs, we may already be there or perhaps within
12 to 24 months away.

When you consider the price of those battery "powerwalls" for PV storage
at home are on the same cost trajectory, it would be like having your
own oil pumpjack in the backyard.

Perhaps the day will come in the not too distant future when one still has
an ICE vehicle but struggles to find a service station to refill it before you
run out of petrol.

Gary, the curve neglects the cost of restructuring the economy. Breaking even on energy running cost inputs, does not address the larger cost affects. I doubt that the big petrol lobby is going just let themselves be shutdown so easily. There will be a lot of Fed govt lobbying, wringing of hands about job losses, strategic importance of ICE vehicles ( what does the Army do, buy electric tanks, where do you charge them). Then we have the whole aviation sector, what is Qantas going to do? I suspect there are decades ahead of us before even consumer ICE can be phased out. In my opinion.

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by wavelandscott

I should add that we did jump into a Tesla Model 3 a couple of years ago and honestly my expectations were low as to how much use it would be beyond “puttering around” to the local shops etc.

It gets a lot more use than I dreamed and replaced an ICE that we had kept just in case…we let the spare go. The Tesla replaced it easily as it turns out.

The cost of ownership and use is much cheaper than the ICE that we did keep.

The other change is in mindset as to what a car is…the simple mechanical parts helped me understand the software centric nature of the future of transportation.

If you do not like how the car handles, change a software setting, want faster acceleration or firmer brakes just change the user setting (think adjusting the ring volume on your mobile phone)…it is stunning.

Hey Scott, - just a quick question.

Does your Tesla go in for regular scheduled services like a regular car would? And if so, how often, what gets done and what sort of cost per service?

Thanks in advance

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

The only thing done so far was a hardware update. We scheduled online and they come to us. No charge. We bought autonomous package early and a hardware upgrade is needed to run the latest update. It was wild, the technician opened it up and put in the new “brains” and ported over all our settings. Very much like going to the Apple Store for a new phone upgrade (but in my driveway). We had to take a 15 minute calibration drive to get the new “brain” oriented.

Software updates flow in automatically. At some point I am sure we will need tires but so far the car tells us nothing is needed. Electric motors can run a long long time.

In general, unlike gasoline cars, Tesla cars require no traditional oil changes, fuel filters, spark plug replacements or emission checks. As electric cars, even brake pad replacements are rare because regenerative braking returns energy to the battery, significantly reducing wear on brakes.

Basically, they recommend a 2 year air filter replacement for cabin air system and 3 years on the HEPA filter…as I mentioned tires when needed and that would be the time to check the brake fluid…. So far, nothing for us to do…

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

It is clear to me that ICE engines require so much maintenance in comparison to EV, also Hybrids are a lot worse than both as you have 2 motors to deal with.

I have recently seen a big push by the Petrol industry here in Aus on those thoughtful fuel companies. I think the writing is on the wall just Australia is going to take a lot longer than the rest of the world. It will be the rest of the world that will play a big part in our adoption of EV.

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

I think the writing is on the wall just Australia is going to take a lot longer than the rest of the world. It will be the rest of the world that will play a big part in our adoption of EV.

Maybe we will end up living in a Mad Max dystopia by choice, while the rest of the world hums away quite happily on renewable energy. 😀

[Rainmaker (Matt)]

I was going to buy an electric vehicle but could not find one that sounded as nice as my BMW M3 or my twin-turbo Mercedes AMG......... so I'll wait a little longer.... C'est la Vie

[raymo]

A few points to consider: The base models of the top three selling vehicles
in Aus start around $50,000, and go up to around $75,000 for a top of the line Hi-Lux, so the argument that EVs are unaffordable doesn't wash, especially as they will drop in price as sales volumes increase, and will drop further in response to the cheaper EVs now coming in from China.
Manufacturers are issuing commitments to get out of diesel and/or petrol engines in the near future, Jaguar becoming all electric by 2025, and Volvo
ceasing production of all diesel models by the end of this year
[if I remember rightly] being two examples.
With so much of the world moving ahead rapidly with the phasing out of ICEs, no manufacturer will find it worthwhile to offer ICE vehicles to tiny
markets like ours, especially as they would have to be RHD, which already prevents some current models from being marketed here.
Fast and slow charging stations are increasing in number every day; each
one being another nail in the range anxiety coffin. Range anxiety will also
have less validity as EV ranges improve.
Finally, the running cost of an EV being hugely less than an ICE powered vehicle should be offset against the higher initial purchase price.

P.S. I have a Mitsubishi ASX. Already one or two EVs have a greater range
than my car, [unless I drive at a steady 90 on level ground, and with a
tail wind].
raymo

[Hemi]

Hmm, I’m quite nonplussed about electric vehicles, and also energy efficient/green homes etc.

There are lots of reasons why people by “green” stuff, “doing their bit”, “cheaper in the long run”, trendy, “it’s the future” etc etc etc.

I think you should buy what you and your personal belief system allows, as long as it’s legal!

I know that the most environmentally friendly thing to do when you need to buy a house for whatever reason is to buy an old one. No matter how efficient your new one will be, building it will still use a ton of resources that will have far more of an environmental impact (materials, manufacturing, fuels etc etc) then if you buy an old one….the same applies to cars.

The problem is we live in a throw away culture. Why not just keep your current car until it’s dust, or buy an old, already manufactured one where the major environmental impact has already been done, overall it will be far more earth friendly than a shiny new Tesla, or a gorgeous EQC for that matter!

Just my 2c, as I firmly believe: each to their own

[Sunfish (Ray)]

Incorrect I am sorry . 80% of the energy used in a house is in the running and it just gets worse the longer you keep a leaky old house uninsulated house with poor windows.

The highest standard house in Sydney requires no heating.

Probably it will be the same with cars ,just like fridges and hot water units.



[QUOTE=Hemi;1522141

I know that the most environmentally friendly thing to do when you need to buy a house for whatever reason is to buy an old one. No matter how efficient your new one will be, building it will still use a ton of resources that will have far more of an environmental impact (materials, manufacturing, fuels etc etc) then if you buy an old one….the same applies to

Just my 2c, as I firmly believe: each to their own [/QUOTE]

[DarkArts]

Originally Posted by Hemi

….the same applies to cars.

Also incorrect. For an internal combustion engine car (on average) 22% of lifecycle emissions are due to manufacture; 78% are from tailpipe emissions. IIRC, those were 2017 figures, so quite current.

Is it awful to get this wrong? Well, I just learned that 40% of Americans believe dinosaurs still live on Earth, so, in the grander scale of things, not so scandalous, really.

[Hemi]

Well I did say nonplussed and each to their own!

No Sorrys needed Sunfish. I wish that all new houses were built to the highest standards, unfortunately that is far from the reality of your average new build. Buying a pre existing house does not mean you have to buy a decrepit house either…

https://www.planetizen.com/blogs/952...vs-buying-home

https://www.greenhomegnome.com/new-b...ch-is-greener/

https://www.buildingconservation.com...al-impacts.htm

Thanks Dark Arts…I don’t think it’s so simple, certainly not for this Neanderthal. (Neanderthals were quite smart by the way)

https://www.zmescience.com/science/u...able-22072020/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...e-ecofriendly/

None of this 5 minute google presents robust data, but i thought I would defend the insults coming my way for a simple posting.

Non plussed= Confusion and uncertainty. But that seems to have been missed while people were fighting the dinosaurs in Canberra.

[Peter Ward]

This is an excellent piece on where things are headed:
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2...erman-engines/

[JA]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

This is an excellent piece on where things are headed:
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2...erman-engines/

Thx - an interesting read for sure. BTW welcome back to forum discussions, I've not seen your posts for a while.

Best
JA

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Hemi

I know that the most environmentally friendly thing to do when you need to buy a house for whatever reason is to buy an old one. No matter how efficient your new one will be, building it will still use a ton of resources that will have far more of an environmental impact (materials, manufacturing, fuels etc etc) then if you buy an old one….the same applies to cars.

The problem is we live in a throw away culture. Why not just keep your current car until it’s dust, or buy an old, already manufactured one where the major environmental impact has already been done, overall it will be far more earth friendly than a shiny new Tesla, or a gorgeous EQC for that matter!

Just my 2c, as I firmly believe: each to their own

There is logic in that argument and I'm also in the camp of do with what you have, improve it or use less of it. All this green BS is just an offset, more gadgets, more new things on top of old things. It doesn't replace anything as far as the end result goes. It just adds up. More energy used, more rubbish piling up, more resources needed. The day the whole supply chain runs on so called "renewables" to the current level of energy required by people's expectation in term of availability and usage (I'm not even going into the value for money) then we can talk about the benefits.

[Sunfish (Ray)]

Originally Posted by Hemi

Well I did say nonplussed and each to their own!

I agree. Everyone does what they can and should enjoy their home.

Facts are different to choices however and countries are different. . I did not say you should knock down an old house to build a new one , just that the energy consumed in an old house will outweigh the energy required of a new house construction by many times. Much of an old house is recycled locally. Some comes back as high quality windows or even aggregates.

So better to plan to refit the old house to the highest possible energy standard you can afford in terms of cost. The reality is that a cheap house will have its most expensive components replaced several times over its life in any case. It is just a matter of focus. Insulation is cheap. Linings are cheap. Quality windows even are no longer unaffordable.

A new building of higher standard will require little CO2 output to manufacture as it will be mostly built of very thick sealed timber panels and timber windows with a thin metal or compressed skin.

[TrevorW]

Its all a matter of cost, jobs, industrial lobbying, policting etc etc- as with EV's, energy efficient homes are expensive - my original post was making the point that I doubt EV's will be both economical and popular in Australia before 2040 that is for the majority of the population, but I'll probably be dead by then or not driving as someone has taken away my license, but there again will I need a license with a self driving car, anyhow so I'll stick with my ICE for the foreseeable future