Laser pointers for stargazing

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

I build and design spectroscopes.
I use the laser pointers for optical alignment and other tests. One or two of my laser pointers are actually "built-in" to my test gear, hence the need to "import" them when I return to Oz.
I hope to be able to complete the necessary Customs/Police paperwork from Belgium before returning.

[CarlJoseph (Carl)]

That's cool Merlin. It's quite possible you could get permission for that type of thing. You might however have better luck importing a laser/module rather than a laser pointer/pen if you're using it as a component of something else.

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

relocating from Vic to NSW or Queensland may be an easier option!!

[Erg]

IMO, 1W, if used regularly is gonna get you busted.. As previously stated by others in this thread John Q Law may give consideration to a 30 or 40 being used for astronomy. Thats not gonna happen with a 1w.

With fresh batts and physically warmed, my 30mw casts a solid beam from scope/hand to target for everyone in the yard.

1W is well over the top..and I want one.

Erg

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Merlin66

I build and design spectroscopes.
I use the laser pointers for optical alignment and other tests. One or two of my laser pointers are actually "built-in" to my test gear, hence the need to "import" them when I return to Oz.
I hope to be able to complete the necessary Customs/Police paperwork from Belgium before returning.

The laws are intended for hand held lasers. If it is built into the device they should not apply, but you should ask. After all, does anyone have problems with the law and the laser in their CD/DVD/Blueray?

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Str8upnub

yeah i knew that , thats why i asked .i managed to get a 100mw past customs last week...its good but not the brightest.i just orderd a 1000mw laser last nite "fingers crossed", its a shame some folks have ruined it for the rest of us.

If a 100mW isn't bright, then it ain't 100mW anyway. I use a 40mW Actic Fox laser rifle sight and that is very bright, and easily does the job.

A 1000mW rated laser would be way too bright anyway and would be very noticeable, which is something that will attract attention. I had the Police helicopter fly over my place, because they saw the beam and once they saw my telescope, they bugged out. They have NVG binoculars on board.

I doubt you would be allowed to use a true 1000mW anyway and it would be way too expensive.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Hi Jake,

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the use and ownership of GLL's in Australia.

The B709B form is required for importation only. The B710 would only be required if it is a licenceable item, to my knowledge.

An Actic Fox 40mW laser rifle sight is available from Gun Mart in Midland WA for about $265, which includes the mount, which fits on a gun slide which will cost about $20. These are the GLL that I use and they are great. Unfortunately they don't have a website but have been around for a long time. Their in the Yellow Pages.

I would check with your central firearms branch, as in WA, these are not a "prohibited weapon", but rather a "controlled weapon" and that has less strict requirements. In WA we were only required to complete a form B709B for importation and require no other paperwork, whatsoever and I have this in writing from the Police Minister. There is no paperwork required to purchase over the counter and anyone can own them as long as they have a valid use and astronomy is such a valid use. Those caught carrying them without a valid use face stiff fines.

My understand is that the laws that were introduced were uniform between states, with the exception of NSW. I am no expert, so I am only going by my experiences.

Frankly, the only place you should be taking advice from is your "central" Firearms branch for the CORRECT information. It will save you a lot of pain.

Going to your local police station is useless, as if they are not involved with the firearms branch, they simply don't know.

If a licence is required in VIC, I sure hope they don't bring that in here, I have enough licences to pay for as it is.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by naskies

Maybe he wants to burn a hole through the clouds?

Seriously though, what are the astronomy applications for a 1 W laser?

I can think of one... range finding.... Mars I should think

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by el_draco

I can think of one... range finding.... Mars I should think

You've been watching too much Bing Bang Theory Oh, hang on, that was the Moon

[Omnius (Tye)]

you are correct, but cd/dvd are class 1 lasers as they are operated inside a housing and cannot escape to burn your eyes

Originally Posted by mithrandir

The laws are intended for hand held lasers. If it is built into the device they should not apply, but you should ask. After all, does anyone have problems with the law and the laser in their CD/DVD/Blueray?

Hi All,
I have been reading a few laser pointer forums as I like lasers in general but just a few hours reading have turned me away from lasers as a hobby, If you value your eyes you will wear laser filter glasses for use with 5mw and up. REALLY just 5mw can hurt your eyes and just imagine getting a flash with dark adapted eyes , that would be even worse.

So please guys and gals be very very careful with your lasers and buy some saftey glasses that suit your nm wavelength ($80+)


Do not worry about planes that are really high up eg 10k ft, they are possibly doing 300 knts plus and will not notice a laser pointed at them for umpteenths of a second. It is when you interfere with the operation of an aircraft eg. distract the crew with a laser pointer, that you will get into trouble and hopefully arrested and gaoled.

I have experienced a direct attack while I was skippering a charter boat.
It was 10:00pm , I had a 25-35 knts blowing and had to pen this charter boat with 22 semi drunk blokes on board. It required all my concentration
and skill to do this safely.
But then some 7 year old kid shines a green laser pointer at the boat and I get flashed twice at the worst possible moment, I was blinded completely for 20 seconds and then had poor vision for the next 10 minutes.
Well I got the boat into the pen , made sure everyone was safe and jumped into my car to try to catch the parents of the child. Lucky for them and myself that i did not find them. I reported it to the police and they took it very seriously (more than I thought they would).



You can import laser parts and build your own laser but not a laser pointer over 1mw.
If you mount your laser physically on your scope then it is no longer a laser "pointer" but a laser guide, unless maybe your telescope is handheld.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

So please guys and gals be very very careful with your lasers and buy some saftey glasses that suit your nm wavelength ($80+)

Wouldn't that stop you from seeing the light???

[Liz]

Most of us in our Townsville group have them, and use them regularly at our dark sky site. We are always pointing out objects for others to find with it, hard to imagine not having one now.

Years ago, when I first joined, the guys were using red laser pointers, which were good too. Dont see them around now.

[stephenb (Stephen)]

This is a regular yet fascinating discussion. I've never had the opportunity of using a laser pointer for astro purposes, only observed others using (and occasionally abusing) them. The only method I've ever used in 30 years is a combination of a Telrad or finderscope and star hopping techniques. I'm not suggesting that observers should reject any tools that assist them in their search for faint fuzzies but I've never understood this constant obsession with them. I've had the impression over recent years that GLPs are becoming like a trophy to some people. I said some, not all.

So a genuine question without putting down those who own or desire such a beast: why are some peope so desperate and obsessed to acquire a laser pointer?

I can however see the occasional benefit of using then to point out objects and constellations to groups of people (public etc.) mind you I had a dear friend in the ASV who for many years presented Sky for the Month at meetings and astro camps. He used nothing but his voice to guide groups of people on a star hopping tour of the night sky. No laser pointers, no instruments of any kind. I learnt from his techniques and now do the same.

[rainwatcher (Peter)]

A somewhat disturbing thread. There is no need for green hand held lasers, outside of the laboratory, in Astronomy. They should be banned.

[Shark Bait (Stu)]

I do not own one . . . . yet. Have been tempted though.

At the Mt Coot-tha public viewing nights I have seen how useful they are. They are excellent aids when pointing out objects in the night sky for members of the public who are interested enough to ask where the scopes are pointing.

I think they do have a role to play, especially at public viewing nights. I have never seen an amateur astronomer use GLP's inappropriately.

[Jaybee (John)]

Originally Posted by rainwatcher

A somewhat disturbing thread. There is no need for green hand held lasers, outside of the laboratory, in Astronomy. They should be banned.

I use a GLP. When attached to my scope it makes setup and aligning a breeze. Infact I rairly use the findersope at all. Once aligned I remove the Laser and pocket it until needed, 1. to keep it warm, 2. to keep it away from anyone temped to fiddle. I also use it to point out objects to other poeple, it makes it so much easier than just pointing and trying to explain WHERE you are pointing. I too have NEVER seen other Astronomers abuse them.
Peter, while you have every right to your opinion, can you justify the reason they should be banned? other than the fact that in the hands of a brainless idiot they can be dangerous? Is that not also true of Motor Vehicles? Should these be banned as well? GLP's are just tools that alot of astronomers choose to use, as it makes the enjoyment of the hobby so much more rewarding. If you choose not to use them, that is your right, and your decision would no doubt be respected by the rest of us, but to come out and just state that "there is no need for them", and "they should be banned" without any other explanation isn't very respectful of the rest of us who do choose to use them. Banning them doesn't mean they will be unobtainable, just more sought after.

[mill (Martin)]

Originally Posted by rainwatcher

A somewhat disturbing thread. There is no need for green hand held lasers, outside of the laboratory, in Astronomy. They should be banned.

What is it with some people who want to ban stuff??
Is it just because they don't use it or are afraid of it?
Lots of things are banned because of these small minority groups who throw their mouth open loudly and scream hell and doom.
What should be banned next? Astronomy gatherings? Smoking?(oops almost there), Riding a bike? driving a car?
Lasers have a use at star parties and public outreach and generally banning lasers because of a few wrong doers is wrong.
I myself don't use a laser and maybe never will but i don't want them banned just because they "might" be dangerous.
Why is it that people who live in a free country, want less freedom? While people in a not free country struggle to get more freedom and not getting it because of a minority group..
To make a short story long, get a laser and be happy

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by rainwatcher

A somewhat disturbing thread. There is no need for green hand held lasers, outside of the laboratory, in Astronomy. They should be banned.

Your position seems to be one based on ignorance. Lasers are useful in Astronomy for aligning telescope optics, creating artificial guide stars, as finders and for public outreach.

They have been mis-used by a scant few by being pointed at aircraft. The sad thing ( I have been personally targeted at work...it was a total non event) is despite literally tens of thousands of "laser tags" of aircraft globally there has not been a single related safety incident. I rather these clowns didn't do it, but to repeat, there has not been a single safety related consequence.

The media frenzy however has been quite disproportionate. The reality is: people have shined bright lights at aircraft , and occasionally pilots notice said light.

Somehow this has been turned into a "Dr Evil death ray" by the media that can somehow down an aircraft..something I'm sure various defence forces would be delighted to learn, you can take out a MIG with a $29.95 pointer ... with clueless politicians passing knee jerk legislation to ban these heinous "death rays"

Baseball & Cricket bats can easily break a kneecap in the wrong hands. Should these be banned?

Sadly astronomers are very much in the minority and have very little political or media clout. We got screwed on this one big time, due apathy and ignorance of people like yourself.

[rainwatcher (Peter)]

Lots of foolish replies as expected, calls of "ignorance", "what next, banning astro gatherings", they might be dangerous, etc etc. The usuall knee jerk reaction from the easily offended. They are dangerous, ban astro gatherings - too silly to respond to. And for the even more easily offended - guns should be banned too, of course they might be dangerous. As for the rest of the facetious arguments, all of the current uses for a high powered laser in astro. viewing can easily be carried out without them. Laboratory use and collimation excepted and in both these instances they are not used for general viewing or by the apparently ignorant public.
p.s. The even more facetious logic of only dangerous when placed in the wrong hands can be applied to bombs, guided missiles, arsenic, LSD and heroin. This is logic not worthy of the contributors to this forum.

[Shark Bait (Stu)]

Ok Peter, I'll take the bait. In my last post, all I have done is disagree with your view that GLP's have no place outside of a lab. We are free to disagree.

I maintain that they do serve a practical purpose in amateur astronomy, especially at public viewing nights.