I'd be inclined to go with the refractor, although nowadays most of my observing is done with (larger) reflectors. My little 60mm x 1000 and 10 x 50 binos served me well for many years and was much easier to use. The tripod mount is something that lets a lot of these scopes down. A good test is have a look through it in the shop and give the tube a light tap and see how long it takes to settle down, any more than 5 secs and its too wobbly. Finances kept me from getting something bigger and better for many years, but the old 60mm gave me heaps of pleasant nights under the stars as the mount was rock solid.
AstroMaster 70AZ 70mm x 900mm refractor on AZ mount $199 is the scope you mentioned in your first post A fair bit cheaper than the geographic site It looks like they have tried to make to make something usefull on a budget a little removed from the really junky scopes you can find around this time of year .
Skywatcher 70 x 500 AZ3$199.00 AUD This is the scope rob mentioned he has and they do sell them round my way so I have had a look at one and they are a pretty sturdy bit of gear
I've also had a good look at the cheaper two you mention from dick smith they set em up every year and probably sell plenty of them I couldn't honestly recomend them to anyone everything about them looks like its about to break off or at the very least going to give you problems imo .
A book to ? http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/produc...oductid=530365 This one is great very specific to someone grabbing a scope and getting outside to see what they can see A lot of books in the stores are great but are a very broad introduction to astronomy.
Anyway good luck .. for the $250 you tip into this you'll get plenty of enjoyment and if it dosn't work out you have a nice little scope to look around with through the day .. just my 2 cents gst inclusive .
Here is my suggestion, go to Andrews site, click on the telescopes, go to the USED AND SURPLUS section and snap up the GS-500 6 inch (150mm) reflector on SV1 mount with motor drive (keeps tracking the object as the earth turns) for only $349!!!
This is a saving off the new price of $150! and is big enough to keep the hubby happy for a long while, satisfies most of everyone's points here, and is still not too much more than your original budget.
Absolute bargain in my opinion and a great starting point without being a rubbish size or quality such as the sub $200 mark.
See what you think, there is a picture in the Guan Sheng section of the website too, so you know what it is you are looking at. I have attached a pic of the scope I am talking about.
Cheers for now, and welcome to IIS. OH and dont forget a copy of Astronomy 2009 for only $20. Indispensable resource.
Chris.
Last edited by Screwdriverone; 04-12-2008 at 11:44 PM.
Reason: added piccy
I do have a 70 mm which I got because it looked great for the money ($200) and I admit it is very good... in fact I used it a lot until I set it up for a guide unit..the mount was very good also althugh az..overall I could not fault it and certainly could recomend it ...I should have mentioned it earlier but in truth I forgot I had one...
Thanks Rob! So essentially, the Celestron with similar specs would be a little ripper too?!
The Celestron is an f13 compared to the f7 of the Skywatcher. This means that the Celestron will be a bit like looking at the sky through a straw with no wide views (these are more important than most newbies expect). Another point is that the two mounts are like cheese and chalk, the Skywatcher one will blow the other out of the water easily in ease of use and stablilty.
I was in Dick Smiths yesterday, while there I remembered this thread so had a quick look at their scopes.
PLEASE buy something else.
As everyone alse seems to have mentioned, have a look at the SkyWatcher brand and check Andrews for pricing.
The Dick Smith scopes reminded me of the old TASCO brand.... didn't TASCO buy the Celestron name a few years ago?
The 76mm reflector does not readily equate to a 70mm refractor. The secondary of the reflector has an impact on the light gathering power: the 76mm reflector might equate to or be worse than the 70mm depending on the secondary.
Ahh, thanks Coen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenhuon
I'd be inclined to go with the refractor, although nowadays most of my observing is done with (larger) reflectors. My little 60mm x 1000 and 10 x 50 binos served me well for many years and was much easier to use. The tripod mount is something that lets a lot of these scopes down. A good test is have a look through it in the shop and give the tube a light tap and see how long it takes to settle down, any more than 5 secs and its too wobbly. Finances kept me from getting something bigger and better for many years, but the old 60mm gave me heaps of pleasant nights under the stars as the mount was rock solid.
Cheers
Bill
Thanks Bill. Yes, finances are tight! I'd like to get him something to start on.
AstroMaster 70AZ 70mm x 900mm refractor on AZ mount $199 is the scope you mentioned in your first post A fair bit cheaper than the geographic site It looks like they have tried to make to make something usefull on a budget a little removed from the really junky scopes you can find around this time of year .
Skywatcher 70 x 500 AZ3$199.00 AUD This is the scope rob mentioned he has and they do sell them round my way so I have had a look at one and they are a pretty sturdy bit of gear
I've also had a good look at the cheaper two you mention from dick smith they set em up every year and probably sell plenty of them I couldn't honestly recomend them to anyone everything about them looks like its about to break off or at the very least going to give you problems imo .
A book to ? http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/produc...oductid=530365 This one is great very specific to someone grabbing a scope and getting outside to see what they can see A lot of books in the stores are great but are a very broad introduction to astronomy.
Anyway good luck .. for the $250 you tip into this you'll get plenty of enjoyment and if it dosn't work out you have a nice little scope to look around with through the day .. just my 2 cents gst inclusive .
good luck and merry x-mass
Thank you nightstalker I'll have a look at that book. And Merry Christmas to you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwdriverone
Hi There,
Here is my suggestion, go to Andrews site, click on the telescopes, go to the USED AND SURPLUS section and snap up the GS-500 6 inch (150mm) reflector on SV1 mount with motor drive (keeps tracking the object as the earth turns) for only $349!!!
This is a saving off the new price of $150! and is big enough to keep the hubby happy for a long while, satisfies most of everyone's points here, and is still not too much more than your original budget.
Absolute bargain in my opinion and a great starting point without being a rubbish size or quality such as the sub $200 mark.
See what you think, there is a picture in the Guan Sheng section of the website too, so you know what it is you are looking at. I have attached a pic of the scope I am talking about.
Cheers for now, and welcome to IIS. OH and dont forget a copy of Astronomy 2009 for only $20. Indispensable resource.
Chris.
I really can't stretch to $350 it sounds like a great bargain though! I did see Astronomy 2009 at Australian Geographic and it does look like a necessity! I will definitely get that. Thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave
I do have a 70 mm which I got because it looked great for the money ($200) and I admit it is very good... in fact I used it a lot until I set it up for a guide unit..the mount was very good also althugh az..overall I could not fault it and certainly could recomend it ...I should have mentioned it earlier but in truth I forgot I had one...
alex
Thanks Alex, I imagine my husband will be the same in the future!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcpb
The Celestron is an f13 compared to the f7 of the Skywatcher. This means that the Celestron will be a bit like looking at the sky through a straw with no wide views (these are more important than most newbies expect). Another point is that the two mounts are like cheese and chalk, the Skywatcher one will blow the other out of the water easily in ease of use and stablilty.
Ahhh, makes sense! Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrB
I was in Dick Smiths yesterday, while there I remembered this thread so had a quick look at their scopes.
PLEASE buy something else.
As everyone alse seems to have mentioned, have a look at the SkyWatcher brand and check Andrews for pricing.
The Dick Smith scopes reminded me of the old TASCO brand.... didn't TASCO buy the Celestron name a few years ago?
Thank you for checking them out for me!
I'm starting to learn so much more, thanks guys!
I'm now looking at the Skywatchers on the Andrews site.
What's the difference between the Skywatcher 70 x 500 AZ3 ($199), Skywatcher 70 x 700 AZ2 ($149) and the Skywatcher 70 x 900 EQ1 ($199). The last one I can tell has an equatorial mount. But would it be worthwhile to learn (persevere!) with the EQ mount to get a longer scope?
P.S. I've just noticed that Andrews have a 5 year warranty on the Skywatchers. That's pretty bloody good!
AZ = altitude-azimuth mount and the number corresponds to how "beefy" the mount is, the higher the number the stronger and more robust the mount. Given that the quality or otherwise of the mount has a large impact on how steady the image is through the eyepiece when there is a breeze or after you make positional/focussing adjustments it is worth getting a decent one.
The EQ1 is a small mount, I find it sufficient and the image steadies fairly quickly. It matches the 70x900 okay. As with aperture though, can always go bigger
70x900 gives basically f13 and the 25mm included gives 36x magnification with about 1.3 to 1.4 degree field of view (about 2.5 times the size of the moon). The longer focal length (900mm) means higher magnification for the eyepieces but smaller fields of view. Tend to have higher contrast, as a rule of thumb good for planets and double stars, not quite so good on clusters and nebulae. The longer focal length tends to be more forgiving on a few other factors. The EQ1 comes with a motor drive but I have found when I mounted it in the location specified I was forever bumping into it with either the telescope itself or the counter weight. I took it off and have subsequently mounted it on a tripod leg and have an extender to link it back to the mount. Have not used the new arrangement yet though as I have found the occassional twist of the hand-knob sufficient so far. When I commence sketching seriously then perhaps... I bought a GSO 68deg 4 element 15mm eyepiece that gives me 60x and a field of view of about 1.1 degrees and I find it works well - the eyepiece practically lives in the telescope, the views of the Orion Nebula (and the 4 components of the trapezium), 47 Tuc, the Jewel Box etc are very pleasing to the eye. The eyepiece used to be about $30 but it has gone up to about $45 now. The GSO eyepiece does not work quite as well in the shorter focal length scopes (sub f6 or so), or so I have heard anyway.
As you shrink the focal length (e.g. 700mm and 500mm) the focal length shortens (f10 and f7 respectively) so the magnification decreases for the same eyepiece (28x and 20x) and the field of view increases (1.7degrees and 2.5degrees respectively assuming 50degree apparent field of view eyepiece) so larger clusters such as M45 become more easily visible in the entire eyepiece and other objects are more framed by their location in the sky although as a whole they appear smaller.
One thing to note with the shorter focal length refractors is that they can be more prone to colour distortion i.e. the object has a blue edge to it for example. This becomes more pronounced the shorter the focal length and the brighter the object. Part of the expense of the more expensive refractors is the ways and means of overcoming this colour issue (has to do with the properties of the lens itself and the way the light travels through it). Alternatively you can just live with it or buy a filter that cuts it down.
Reflectors tend to have focal ratios from about 4.5 to 10 with 6 the common range. The reflector therefore tends to have wider fields of view than a comparable refractor. While refractors have colour and field of view issues compared to the reflector, the reflector has issues associated with its secondary and potential alignment factors which impact the final image quality. So it is a trade-off.
BTW EQ mounts essentially become alt-az mounts if set to 90 degrees (i.e. living at a pole). So set the mount to be at latitude 90 and you have a sort of alt-az mount with a counter weight.
I find adding weight on the accessory tray stabalises a mount.. my old mounts used to get 11 kls and it worked well...strangly focusing is better.
AND a wonderful run down Coen well considered and very informative.
So would we be best going with the 500, 700 or 900?
I'm sure he'd like to see some other galaxies, nebulae, star clusters (are these DSOs?) and of course our solar system planets/moon. So I guess we need something that's on middle ground. Obviously with the $$ I'm spending, I don't expect this to be crystal clear and full of bright colours, but just to be able to... put a face to a name... I guess would be good!
Sorry in advance for all the questions, but I'm very slowly learning!
My personal opinion (noting I have owned large f number refractors and once when I was a teenager a 4.25" reflector so my baseline is biased) is any one of the three would be fine.
I can only speak from looking through my 70x900 and I enjoy the views, especially coupled with the GSO 15mm (60x and >1 degree FOV is nice). The 25mm that comes with the telescope is fine to start viewing clusters, M42, 47 Tuc, Omega Cent, the wonderful open clusters near eta-Carina, the Jewel Box etc. The eyepieces that come with the telescope easily split Acrux and Alpha Cent etc. and I see down to around 11.8 magnitude from my suburban skies. Jupiter is small but you can easily see the bands and if the conditions are good the shadows of the Galilean moons as they cross the disk if you beef the magnification (go to 90x or so). The phases of Venus and Mercury are readily discernable. The Moon is a treat at any magnification.
I think the 500 or 700mm will be equally as okay as the 900mm, might get a little more colour distortion (usually blue edges) as you get shorter focal length, especially noticable on the Moon and Venus, Jupiter etc. and you will not get as much magnification as with the 900mm as noted before.
Whilst Andromeda galaxy is up (low though) good views can be had, NGC 253 is also interesting to view (plus other galaxies) although to first time viewers they can be a little disappointing until one learns to appreciate what they are and how to adapt the eye etc.
As other have said get a strong mount, say the AZ3. The logic of the AZ is straight forward the EQ takes some getting used too.
Yes DSO is deep sky object, generally associated with galaxies, nebulae and other faint fuzzies.
Final question that might help with the 500mm, 700mm & 900mm question (for example and assuming magnification is not the driver) is how dark is your night sky? If you are in suburbia then go longer as it will give darker backgrounds. If you live where there are dark skies that make everyone else drool then any focal length works.
If you choose a reflector then hopefully someone else can help as it has been too long ago for me
Coen has put a very good argument for the longer tube but, I think originally you wanted a scope that would be good for bird watching as well. I would still go for the shorter tube and simply use a barlow lense to boost the magnification and to darken the background. Remember that the maximum useful magnification for these scopes is 140x (twice the aperture in mm) and this will only be on those exceptional nights a couple of times a year. This will give you a guide to the lenses to get with the scope. Magnification is the focal lenght divided by the size of the eyepiece eg. a 25mm eyepiece on the 500mm focal length would be 500/25=20x magnification (a good magnification for bird watching), the same eyepiece on the 900 would be 900/25=36x.
Ill add my 2 bobs worth, Astronomy 2009 is a absolute must i own it myself, it explains a fair few things and starts from the start assuming you know nothing.
As for your scope there has been so much QUALITY information given. Just think of it from this way, is your hubby a compulsive tinkerer with technical skills to match or is he more the i don't care about the nitty grittys i just want to do what it is i came here for?
If its A, go the reflector more aperature lets you see the faint fuzzies remebering our eyes cannot resolve colour in much of the sky. look at the southern cross.. there is Blue Red white and yellow stars if im correct.
If its B go the Refractor little less apperature but no need for collmination easy to walk outside drop on the ground and start viewing!
As for price you have your budget, get the most aperature you can buy! that will never fail you!
I cannot thank you all enough for all the great replies in here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coen
My personal opinion (noting I have owned large f Final question that might help with the 500mm, 700mm & 900mm question (for example and assuming magnification is not the driver) is how dark is your night sky? If you are in suburbia then go longer as it will give darker backgrounds. If you live where there are dark skies that make everyone else drool then any focal length works.
On the outskirts of Sydney, can be quiet dark, not far from "the country" but I wouldn't say that it's super dark!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcpb
Coen has put a very good argument for the longer tube but, I think originally you wanted a scope that would be good for bird watching as well. I would still go for the shorter tube and simply use a barlow lense to boost the magnification and to darken the background. Remember that the maximum useful magnification for these scopes is 140x (twice the aperture in mm) and this will only be on those exceptional nights a couple of times a year. This will give you a guide to the lenses to get with the scope. Magnification is the focal lenght divided by the size of the eyepiece eg. a 25mm eyepiece on the 500mm focal length would be 500/25=20x magnification (a good magnification for bird watching), the same eyepiece on the 900 would be 900/25=36x.
Cheers
Thanks! I'm now starting to think that we can just use the telescope for astro and the binos for birdwatching. So terrestrial viewing is now off the requirements!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmitchell82
Ill add my 2 bobs worth, Astronomy 2009 is a absolute must i own it myself, it explains a fair few things and starts from the start assuming you know nothing.
As for your scope there has been so much QUALITY information given. Just think of it from this way, is your hubby a compulsive tinkerer with technical skills to match or is he more the i don't care about the nitty grittys i just want to do what it is i came here for?
If its A, go the reflector more aperature lets you see the faint fuzzies remebering our eyes cannot resolve colour in much of the sky. look at the southern cross.. there is Blue Red white and yellow stars if im correct.
If its B go the Refractor little less apperature but no need for collmination easy to walk outside drop on the ground and start viewing!
As for price you have your budget, get the most aperature you can buy! that will never fail you!
Thanks, will definitely get that guide book. I guess at first he'd like to get out there and see what's around and then further down the track get into the nitty gritties and tinker around with things.
I STILL don't know what to get but am mostly thinking of the 700x900 Skywatcher.
Is there anyone that actually recommends a newt reflector?
I know that getting the biggest appeture I can afford is best, and of course the newtonians are cheaper, but most here don't recommend them!
hehehe we actually have been saying Newt all along just in the form of Dobsonian.
there are a few main types of telescopes
Newtonian/Reflector/Dobsonian - Mirror at the back
Refractor - Lens at the front
SCT - Schmitt Cassigrain Telescope - Lens at the front Mirror at the back
if your getting your hubby a 700mm newt we would be green because that is massive something like 2 ft mirror
but a dobsonian around the 6" mark is nice or a 150mm Newt for 350 is just as nice a few extra bits to fiddle with but all good at the end of the day!
hehehe we actually have been saying Newt all along just in the form of Dobsonian.
D'oh! hahaha And I guess with the dobs you'd have to get a mount for it anyway? Unless of course you like laying down on the ground?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmitchell82
if your getting your hubby a 700mm newt we would be green because that is massive something like 2 ft mirror
LOL no because then I'd also need to re-mortgage the house!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmitchell82
but a dobsonian around the 6" mark is nice or a 150mm Newt for 350 is just as nice a few extra bits to fiddle with but all good at the end of the day!
I'd love to but unfortunately I really can't stretch it to $350. I was looking around the $200 mark. I know it's not gonna be a superpowered scope, but I just wanted to give him something to get started. Then of course in a years time or few more he can look into what he really wants (needs?!) and get it.
In the end its sound like your husband is a very lucky man to have a wife that is putting in such am effort to buy him a telescope. I have been into astronomy for 25+ years 15 years where with my ex. Not once in the 15years did she ever think of buying astro stuff for me. So what ever you get. I am sure he will love it.
Phil
Dob - Dobsonian: It is a type of mount that is popular because (a) cheap for the aperture it can hold (b) in general robust and (c) simple.
It is basically an alt-azimuth mount and is used for Reflectors. Picture this: Typically looks like a box that is on a restaurant style lazy-susan type arrangement (i.e. a base-plate with turn-table) all of which rests on the ground - so you were almost right . Visit almost any telescope selling web-site and you will see 6" (and larger) reflectors for sale on Dobsonian mounts for, in general, quite a bit less than an AZ or EQ mount - does not have tripod legs etc. Can have other advantages but as with everything else there is a trade off. Dob mounts have made access to large apertures for sensible budgets just that bit easier. BTW general range for dobs seems to be from about 6" to 12" due to size of the mirror and length of the tube. Can get larger but step ladders then become mandatory and perhaps paid up health insurance.
If you end up deciding to get a telescope, I'd recommend buying from a telescope dealer such as some of the ones listed already in this thread or who are linked to this site. Please stay clear of the department store "cheap" scopes as realistically they are not "cheap" and have pitfalls.
BTW If you have binoculars then have them handy near the telescope when starting out. They make matching what you see with charts that much easier and help familiarisation before getting the finder of the telescope in the right area and then the "looking through a straw" telescope field of view.
Be curious to hear what you might decide.
Merry Christmas. Or if you are from the states "Happy Holidays".
I'll have a look at that book. And Merry Christmas to you! 
it sounds like a great bargain though! I did see Astronomy 2009 at Australian Geographic and it does look like a necessity! I will definitely get that. Thank you! 
because that is massive something like 2 ft mirror 
hahaha And I guess with the dobs you'd have to get a mount for it anyway? Unless of course you like laying down on the ground? 
