#1  
Old 20-05-2021, 10:20 AM
AdamJL
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Le Lobster

Hi folks

This was a hard one to process. To be honest, I thought I'd get more signal out of this shot, but I had less than I thought. I haven't applied darks yet, just lights/flats/darkflats.

This is a vertical crop of a horizontal panel

Camera:ASI2600MC
Scope: SkyWatcher EvoStar 80ED + Orion FF
Filters: L-Extreme
Mount:EQ6-R Pro
Guiding camera: ASI290MM
Guiding scope: SkyWatcher EvoGuide 50ED
Subs: 46 x 420
Total Integration: 5hrs 22mins
Gain: 100
Offset: 50
Lights: 40
Darks: 0
Flats: 40
Dark Flats: 40
Bortle Class: 3
Moon: No Idea but it dropped early
Software: NINA, PHD2, Stellarium, PoleMaster, StarTools 1.7, Photoshop CC

thanks for looking
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  #2  
Old 20-05-2021, 11:00 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Adam,
Might seem like a lot data you captured for this nebula which by the way one of the more difficult targets , but it is a dim bugger at mag 10 and plus your scopes focal length at f7.5 is on the slower end hence the requirement for plenty of long subs
I think it’s a ripper of an image
Colour is good and plenty of detail for your compact rig
Well done !!!

Have you tried the Super Structure module in Startools 1.7 ( in particular Power of inverse ) I have settings which can bring out more detail , brightness and colour , obviously adjusted to taste.
Cheers
Martin
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  #3  
Old 20-05-2021, 09:11 PM
AdamJL
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Ha! That's something I should have paid attention to first. Magnitude 10?! No wonder it was difficult

I'm hoping to get an Esprit 120 in a few months. Still only f/7 but hopefully will also pick up the new Field Flattener/Reducer which will take it down to f/5.4

Yes I gave the Super Structure a go with this image actually. Didn't go into in detail, but it definitely helped me bring out more structure. It's very good! I'm also switching over to Film Dev instead of Autodev. It's great!
For colours, I still finish up in Photoshop. I haven't come across a way to create colours I like in Startools yet.
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Old 20-05-2021, 09:45 PM
Craig_
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Looks great! Certainly must be a dim target if you aren't happy with the amount of signal gathered in over 5 hrs

You'll love the Esprit 120, great scope. I bought the red/flattener for it too, going to f5.4 does make a lot of difference to signal although I've only used it once or twice. Not enough time to image at the native FL let alone when reduced.
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  #5  
Old 20-05-2021, 10:27 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJL View Post
Ha! That's something I should have paid attention to first. Magnitude 10?! No wonder it was difficult

I'm hoping to get an Esprit 120 in a few months. Still only f/7 but hopefully will also pick up the new Field Flattener/Reducer which will take it down to f/5.4

Yes I gave the Super Structure a go with this image actually. Didn't go into in detail, but it definitely helped me bring out more structure. It's very good! I'm also switching over to Film Dev instead of Autodev. It's great!
For colours, I still finish up in Photoshop. I haven't come across a way to create colours I like in Startools yet.
Adam,
Just be aware that Film Dev will not stretch the image to your data’s full dynamic range, all its doing is stretching and brightening the image with the slider much like in the old days of film exposure, there’s no fine detail plus the stars always bloat in Film Dev ( I rarely use it ) Once you master Autodev is absolutely unbelievable what it can do to expose all your hidden detail
Just draw a region of interest ROI around your object , and resize it in and out and using the ignore fine detail slider between 1.8 and say 5 pixels , you will see the changes in detail and brightness as you fiddle around a bit . Try adjusting Shadow Linearity up from default 50 to say 60 or 70 ??
It takes time but your images will benefit more from AutoDev ( Film Dev is “ the easy way out” for stretching your image but is restricted or limited what it can do ) Just go on the Startools website and read up about AutoDev and Film Dev . I think you will benefit greatly.

AutoDev is the better option in most cases unless you have crap data or limited data

Cheers
Martin
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  #6  
Old 21-05-2021, 08:53 AM
AdamJL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig_ View Post
Looks great! Certainly must be a dim target if you aren't happy with the amount of signal gathered in over 5 hrs

You'll love the Esprit 120, great scope. I bought the red/flattener for it too, going to f5.4 does make a lot of difference to signal although I've only used it once or twice. Not enough time to image at the native FL let alone when reduced.
Cheers, Craig. It's a very dim target. Next time I'll go after Omega Centauri
I'm looking forward to that 120 for sure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Adam,
Just be aware that Film Dev will not stretch the image to your data’s full dynamic range, all its doing is stretching and brightening the image with the slider much like in the old days of film exposure, there’s no fine detail plus the stars always bloat in Film Dev ( I rarely use it ) Once you master Autodev is absolutely unbelievable what it can do to expose all your hidden detail
Just draw a region of interest ROI around your object , and resize it in and out and using the ignore fine detail slider between 1.8 and say 5 pixels , you will see the changes in detail and brightness as you fiddle around a bit . Try adjusting Shadow Linearity up from default 50 to say 60 or 70 ??
It takes time but your images will benefit more from AutoDev ( Film Dev is “ the easy way out” for stretching your image but is restricted or limited what it can do ) Just go on the Startools website and read up about AutoDev and Film Dev . I think you will benefit greatly.

AutoDev is the better option in most cases unless you have crap data or limited data

Cheers
Martin
Thanks Martin. The trouble I have with AutoDev is that it does this to my images, even with various tweaks. It turns everything (including the first go of this Lobster picture) into a hot noisy mess. I've sought help from the StarTools forum and no one seems to be able to tell me why, but FilmDev is something that actually works for me so I'll stick with it.
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  #7  
Old 21-05-2021, 11:15 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJL View Post
Cheers, Craig. It's a very dim target. Next time I'll go after Omega Centauri
I'm looking forward to that 120 for sure!



Thanks Martin. The trouble I have with AutoDev is that it does this to my images, even with various tweaks. It turns everything (including the first go of this Lobster picture) into a hot noisy mess. I've sought help from the StarTools forum and no one seems to be able to tell me why, but FilmDev is something that actually works for me so I'll stick with it.
A couple of things -
Have you binned to default 50% ?
Have you cropped the edges of the image ?
Have you used Wipe to default 75 ?
If these things are done then you should be able to control the AutoDev stretch
Try just a small rectangle ROI in the centre of the image about 1/3 of the size of the object and tweak the ignore fine detail slider to say 4 pixels
Here’s a Startools work flow which other folk have used to varying degrees of success
Cheers
Martin
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  #8  
Old 21-05-2021, 11:17 AM
AdamJL
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I've done all of that, mate.
(I don't normally bin as my PC is powerful enough and binning impacts resolution and performance only.... though I tried binning anyway to see if it made a difference).
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  #9  
Old 21-05-2021, 11:28 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJL View Post
I've done all of that, mate.
(I don't normally bin as my PC is powerful enough and binning impacts resolution and performance only.... though I tried binning anyway to see if it made a difference).
Very unusual
If you send a post on Startools with your AutoDev issue , attached your image and mention if Ivo could have a look , he usually replies
He’s helped me with so much in the past 3 or 4 years with Startools

Binning improves Signal to Noise , the file size is not the reason why you bin , it’s just a side benefit
Unless your undersampled binning may result in blocky stars
I’m oversampled ( 0.80 arc sec per pixel ) so binning works really well and allows the other modules to perform better
Ivo strongly recommends it
M.
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  #10  
Old 21-05-2021, 11:36 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Very unusual
If you send a post on Startools with your AutoDev issue , attached your image and mention if Ivo could have a look , he usually replies
He’s helped me with so much in the past 3 or 4 years with Startools

Binning improves Signal to Noise , the file size is not the reason why you bin , it’s just a side benefit
Unless your undersampled binning may result in blocky stars
I’m oversampled ( 0.80 arc sec per pixel ) so binning works really well and allows the other modules to perform better
Ivo strongly recommends it
M.
Silly question but are you using Deep Sky Stacker to stack your data and if so are you leaving the stacked file purely linear ( untouched , no adjusting colour or stretching etc.. ) and saving as a fits file ???
Startools requires clean linear data to work at optimum performance

M.
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  #11  
Old 21-05-2021, 04:12 PM
AdamJL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Very unusual
If you send a post on Startools with your AutoDev issue , attached your image and mention if Ivo could have a look , he usually replies
He’s helped me with so much in the past 3 or 4 years with Startools

Binning improves Signal to Noise , the file size is not the reason why you bin , it’s just a side benefit
Unless your undersampled binning may result in blocky stars
I’m oversampled ( 0.80 arc sec per pixel ) so binning works really well and allows the other modules to perform better
Ivo strongly recommends it
M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Silly question but are you using Deep Sky Stacker to stack your data and if so are you leaving the stacked file purely linear ( untouched , no adjusting colour or stretching etc.. ) and saving as a fits file ???
Startools requires clean linear data to work at optimum performance

M.

G'day Martin. Yep, DSS and purely linear. I followed the ST guide for DSS stacking as well.
As for binning, I've tried Autodev with and without binning, with the same results. I posted on the ST forum already and Ivo didn't solve the issue. One member took my data, edited it and made a video how, which was incredibly helpful (and it's what introduced me to Film Dev).

Now I can edit in ST without my Autodev issues
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