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Old 23-06-2021, 10:04 AM
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Stonius (Markus)
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Anyone else sad about the demise of Hubble?

Such an iconic piece of space hardware. So many great images. Sad to see it go :-(

https://www.iflscience.com/space/a-c...s-have-failed/

Markus
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Old 23-06-2021, 10:28 AM
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This is something I feel very strongly about.
First just fix it...
Second under no circumstances let it fall into the ocean.
At any cost bring it back and place it in the Smithsonian.

These yanks save their old oil advertising signs, star wars dolls, in fact anything that is " its the only one of its kind" rebuild old cars fit for melt down etc etc etc, I know you only need one etc but this is a special case, to the point one could say it is a sickness and yet there seems not a wimper re the most significant science instrument ever constructed...
You cant tell me it cant be returned by a nation who can do anything and really able to manufacture any amount of money required.
Auction it...do we not have any billionaires into collecting...
And if it takes money away from gravity wave research I think the recover of Hubble is money much better spent.

I dont know and ask...what does the "average" USA citizen think? Does anyone care?

Alex
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Old 23-06-2021, 11:17 AM
Hans Tucker (Hans)
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When NASA and the US Government killed the Shuttle Program they effectively removed any capability to repair or even recover Hubble. Hubble has served it purpose and I am sure has outlasted its projected life time to look at new ventures.
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Old 23-06-2021, 11:30 AM
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Maybe it will prompt them to get the WEBB up and running instead of constant delays
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Old 23-06-2021, 11:55 AM
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Stonius (Markus)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Tucker View Post
Hubble has served it purpose and I am sure has outlasted its projected life time to look at new ventures.

Sure, but I think apart from the science, the outreach value of hubble is incalculable. When People think of pictures of space, they invariably have HST images in mind. Being visual spectrum images, they connect with the public in ways that false colour images of eg, cosmic background radiation doesn't really.


If they are going to let it die I hope they replace it with something even better and in the visual spectrum.


Markus
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Old 23-06-2021, 11:55 AM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Elon's starship will go get it and bring it back.
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Old 23-06-2021, 12:16 PM
Hans Tucker (Hans)
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Maybe it will prompt them to get the WEBB up and running instead of constant delays
Better to have delays than miss something and it fails when commissioned. Remember Hubble and its commissioning saga. Where Webb is going there ain't no Roadside Assistance.
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Old 23-06-2021, 12:38 PM
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Better to have delays than miss something and it fails when commissioned. Remember Hubble and its commissioning saga. Where Webb is going there ain't no Roadside Assistance.
Are they putting it next to Hubble?

I have this feeling James Webb will never make it as it has already done it job

Alex
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Old 23-06-2021, 12:50 PM
Hans Tucker (Hans)
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Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
Are they putting it next to Hubble?


Alex
Oh .. no ... WST is boldly going where no Space Telescope has gone before ....1.5 million km from Earth orbiting the L2 Point
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Old 23-06-2021, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
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Oh .. no ... WST is boldly going where no Space Telescope has gone before ....1.5 million km from Earth orbiting the L2 Point
Yeh far enough away so they dont have to fix it...I know how it works.

My view is it has the potential to bring our current cosmology into doubt and that simply can not be allowed to happen...so here I have decided to start a new conspiracy theory..if it does fail that means I am right doesnt it? Anyways better get started on the book I guess.

My little mind looks at what they expect to do and I think no way it will work but sincerely I really hope they pull it off as we will get such a better "view" of our universe one could think.

Alex
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Old 23-06-2021, 01:10 PM
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Anyways...I dont care why it cant be done just fix it and bring it home after the James Webb is up and working.
If it meant votes it would get done...am I right or am I correct?
Alex
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Old 23-06-2021, 01:13 PM
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This article sounds a bit more positive:
https://astronomynow.com/2021/06/20/...load-computer/


20 June 2021



Engineers are still troubleshooting a glitch with the Hubble Space Telescope’s payload computer that put the observatory in “safe mode,” a sort of electronic hibernation, until the problem is resolved.
The shutdown occurred just after 20:00 GMT on 13 June when the computer, which controls and coordinates observations by Hubble’s science instruments, stopped sending routine “keep-alive” signals to the telescope’s primary computer. That, in turn, activated software that automatically halted instrument operations, shutting down science observations.
Engineers initially suspected problems with one of four 64K solid-state memory modules used by the computer. But an attempt to switch to an alternate module was not successful, prompting another round of troubleshooting.
The payload computer is known as a “NASA Standard Spacecraft Computer-1, or NSSC-1, built in the 1980s and part of the telescope’s Science Instrument Command and Data Handling unit. The computer is fully redundant, with two independent “strings,” either one of which can handle all payload functions. Whichever string is operating uses one memory module with the other three on standby as backups.
As of 18 June, engineers were still collecting diagnostic data and had not yet resorted to attempting a switch over to the alternate computer string.
“The operations team will be running tests and collecting more information on the system to further isolate the problem,” NASA said in a statement. “The science instruments will remain in a safe mode state until the issue is resolved. The telescope itself and science instruments remain in good health.”
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Old 23-06-2021, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonius View Post
Such an iconic piece of space hardware. So many great images. Sad to see it go :-(

https://www.iflscience.com/space/a-c...s-have-failed/

Markus
It's hard to imagine a world without Hubble. Even though modern ground-based scopes outperform it the term "Hubble image' is still the byword for quality, such is the legend it has become.
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Old 23-06-2021, 04:48 PM
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The 1980s era computers on Hubble have always mystified me. Given the several repair and replace processes undertaken over the past decade or so, I would have thought that the clever folk at NASA would have thought to replace these old systems with some new ones. Is it a question of compatibility? Perhaps the old chips are more resilient or better able to handle the space environment. It would be interesting to know.
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Old 23-06-2021, 04:55 PM
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The 1980s era computers on Hubble have always mystified me. Given the several repair and replace processes undertaken over the past decade or so, I would have thought that the clever folk at NASA would have thought to replace these old systems with some new ones. Is it a question of compatibility? Perhaps the old chips are more resilient or better able to handle the space environment. It would be interesting to know.



Don't quote me but I think that the CPUs can't be
anything above an 80486 as the large transistor size of that old
CPU chip is resistant to cosmic rays.
The latest CPUs wouldn't last an hour with their tiny 7nm sizes.
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Old 23-06-2021, 07:27 PM
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Just remember folks, the James Webb scope is Infra-Red only (that's why it's at the L2 position), so you won't get pretty pictures like Hubble does.
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Old 23-06-2021, 07:58 PM
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Its not quite true that Hubble is outperformed by modern ground based scopes; it can operate at IR and UV wavelengths that are not available
to ground based scopes due to our pesky (but obviously necessary: ) atmosphere.
raymo

Last edited by raymo; 23-06-2021 at 08:00 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 23-06-2021, 09:44 PM
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...due to our pesky (but obviously necessary: ) atmosphere.
raymo

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Old 23-06-2021, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
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The 1980s era computers on Hubble have always mystified me.
Hi Peter,

No, they are way older than that. The computer onboard the Hubble was designed in 1974.

It's fabricated out of custom radiation hardened medium scale integrated (MSI) chips and plated wire core memory.
So the memory pre-dates the widespread adoption of RAM chips.

It does have the neat advantage that it is non-volatile. Switch the power off and it retains its contents.

Also keep in mind that the Interdata Model 70 computer, which is a full-on 32-bit minicomputer from 1973,
which was controlling the Anglo Australian Telescope was only upgraded not that long ago in 2009. And that's here on Earth!
It also had core memory. The thing was controlling this giant telescope and just worked, so there was a reluctance to horse with it.

Image. The Interdata Model 70 that controlled the AAT between 1974 and 2009 :-
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Old 23-06-2021, 10:43 PM
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Thought I read somewhere there is still a 2nd redundant computer to control things they haven't fired up yet. All the efforts and articles so far have been about troubleshooting and trying to isolate the problems in the primary computer. Bit early to write her off yet.....
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