I'm struggling to find a reliable 5mtr USB3 cable which can connect my fast frame ASI 178 camera to the "hot shot" MSI laptop with SSD drive.
I was using a Cable Creation extension for almost a year with no issues - always fast frame rates but it just died....
I've tried a couple of eBay generic cables but they bomb out at 25 fps when I really need around 200 fps.
Interestingly a couple of 3mtr eBay generic cables seem to work well - go figure!!!
If you want to be certain about whether it will support the high frame rate, then take your laptop and cam to Jaycar and give it a try, in a back to back test against your other problematic cable/s.
Even if you don't try it in store, they tend to have a very reasonable returns policy within 7 or 14 days as I recall (ask/check first to be sure)
Even though the USB 3 Specification doesn't specify maximum cable lengths, 3m is considered to be something of a maximum length for a passive cable based on typically available cable conductor electrical characteristics/geometry at the maximum bit rate of 5 Gb/s. That's not to say that longer lengths will not work, but they may in the case of passive cables limit the bandwidth / bit rate leading to slower transfer. Active cables overcome this by boosting the signal (and sometimes processing it) for better signal to noise ratio.
Ken,
I’ve used these Startech 5m long Active USB3 cables for years and not one issue at all
Waisted time and money buying $15 to $60 USB3 cables that all had intermittent connection issues
USB3 cables are normally designed to run ok over one or two metre , once you go to 3, 4 and 5 metres you have connectivity issues
The Startech USBs are designed to allow data transfer at full bandwidth without signal loss at 5 metres
Expensive ? Yes , around $190 to $220 each ,but they bloody work
Ive had mine nearly 5 years , cost me $150 so that equates to $30 a year
I spent more money throwing out USB cables that didn’t work
Hmmmm, that didn't go well.....
Took the computer and camera up to JayCar in Geelong.
Tried two different 5mtr active cables (all they had) - both failed! Only 25 fps. The guy couldn't believe it -asked me to do the test again, and again.
Contacted Lindy and they declined to offer a cable!!??
Looks like I need to review the StarTech solutions (Martin, was you experience based on fast frame cameras (200fps)??) or try to get another CableCreation from the US.
Bumma!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hmmmm, that didn't go well.....
Took the computer and camera up to JayCar in Geelong.
Tried two different 5mtr active cables (all they had) - both failed! Only 25 fps. The guy couldn't believe it -asked me to do the test again, and again.
Contacted Lindy and they declined to offer a cable!!??
Looks like I need to review the StarTech solutions (Martin, was you experience based on fast frame cameras (200fps)??) or try to get another CableCreation from the US.
Bumma!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ken,
ZWOASI2600MC
ZWOASI120MM
PS I’ve tried all the Jaycar , Lindy , Avencore USB3 cables and all had connectivity problems at 5m
The Startech 5m Active cable , no issues .....
Martin,
What sort of frame rates on the ASI 120MM????
I need at least 200 fps
(I see the local supplier has a 5mtr cable for around $150 delivered.....)
Martin,
What sort of frame rates on the ASI 120MM????
I need at least 200 fps
(I see the local supplier has a 5mtr cable for around $150 delivered.....)
Ken
See attached from ZWO website on the ASI120MM camera
Is this what your after
Martin
Martin,
No not really......
I'm looking at actual performance as measured by FireCapture/ Sharpcap etc. using a 5mtr USB3 cable.
The ROI I use on the ASI 178 is 3000 x 200 pixel.
The ASI 120 equivalent would be 1200 x 200 pixel.
Martin,
No not really......
I'm looking at actual performance as measured by FireCapture/ Sharpcap etc. using a 5mtr USB3 cable.
The ROI I use on the ASI 178 is 3000 x 200 pixel.
The ASI 120 equivalent would be 1200 x 200 pixel.
Hi Ken,
What is the highest speed so far you have achieved with the 3000 x 200 ROI? What cable was that with? Will it do 200fps with the ZWO supplied standard 2m (black) cable at 3000 x 200?
The reason I ask is that at 200fps and at a 3000 x 200 ROI it seems like it very much would be at (maybe over) the limit of what seems possible based on ZWO's maximum reported frame rates at the various supported resolutions/ROIs especially if using it in 14 Bit mode (maybe OK at 10bit), based on ZWO's data for the 174mm in the table below. That is based on an assessment of the maximum bitrates associated with the various ROIs tabulated in comparison with what you are going for. In any event, high data transfer rates coupled with longish cable lengths are not going to make things easier.
Best
JA
Another suggestion, just in case, try it with a freshly installed driver and/or try running the camera via ZWO's capture software to see if that makes any difference.
JA,
I've achieved up to 400 fps () with reduced ROI - 3000 x 100 pixel.
The fps are heavily influenced by the choice of vertical pixels in the ROI. The lower the vertical pixel count the faster the fps. Depending on the quality of the spectrum I'm using, the ROI can vary from 3000 wide with 100 to 200 pixel vertically.
The cables as supplied by ZWO (I've got the ASI 1600, ASI 174 and ASI 178 cables) can work OVER THEIR SHORT lengths, 1.8 mtr.
The active CableCreation 5mtr USB3 I used was very good. Unfortunately after almost 12 months it failed.
I need at least a 4.5 mtr connection length. Even a eBay 3 mtr USB3 cable seems to work! but it seems very difficult to find a usable 5 mtr solution.
I need a 5 mtr repeater USB3 cable which can handle at least 200 fps, each frame 1.4 MB, so running at >274 MB/s.
(Someone has mentioned bidirectional issues???? Don't honestly know what's involved.)
FireCapture is my preferred software, it gives me control over the variables involved.
"When the cable is good, it's very very good, when it's bad it's a disaster!"
There must be other solar imagers around the world with similar issues....but I don't get any feedback.
Very strange and frustrating behaviour there Ken, Dumb question: have you tried using a different USB port on the laptop? Not all are likely USB3 but usually two will be and the rest USB2, but anyway it might be power related on the USB bus and worth trying to be certain at zero extra cost.
Another dumb question, what about the camera end? Can you use a power pack with it or maybe a second usb cable plugged into a usb power hub? Might be the camera end thats struggling which should be considered.
Good luck with it mate.
Tried all the options.other than the powered USB option, which doesn’t work with the ASI CMOS cameras.
The 5mtr cable was supposed to be capable but this doesn’t seem to be true.
Some success with 3mtr variants.
Whatabout ferrite noise suppressors? A 5m wire is an antenna after all, could just be lack of shielding keeping induced noise from interfering with the digital signal? Maybe I guess the fast charging phone electronics most cables build in. What about a short cable with a plain usb extension cable?
Steve,
I'm out of action at the moment.
We are currently full time carers for my mother in law (93 yo) who is slowly recovering from Covid.
Means we are temporarily living 200Km away from home, library and telescopes.
I did have some success using a combo of a 3m and a 1.8m USB cable.
Well im full time out of action being disabled just adding some thought for you to try or ignore. No big deal just a physical defect is unlikely given youve tried many cables unless they are all crap. Leave likely a power issue really like degredation from interference or dodgy usb port being connected to or maybe needing a clean ac adapter to the zwo, mine has a power socket though it never came with an adapter, could also be noise introduced by a failing cooling fan if yours has one. Noise in the usb from such exterior sources could easily kill the data transfer, I’m sure youve seen digital tv breakups of squares which is from interference in the air rf noise eg got old whitegoods running on your power circuit? Any chance you can visit Andrews or bintel etc who would have usb cables and likely to help you test your camera?
Just seems you’re no closer to any answer except buy more cables and that may not be the problem just a waste of money. Or just put up with lower frame rates, youre not recording the the same physical drive the operating sytemis one right?and your recording drive I assume is a good ssd(you’ve tested that, and its not on an external usb2 port? Test and confirm which usb ports are 3 and which are two etc. pretty standard for real time recording setups to phyically isolate os, programs, scratch disk etc and recording space. You might have merely been lucky at first with your set but now the os has temp garbage and fragmentation slowing things down, seen it tons of time from over confident people and not the sort of mistake i’d expect from you though.but beyond buying a new camera you should go back to the start and investigate every part of the setup is the optimal. Plus youre recording drive might just be on its way out, SSDs dont last as long as we expect regardless of brand so dont discount anything, test everything .
The reality is unless you can do signal testing with an expensive tester on an individual cable you can't guarantee its signal integrity.
The reality with USB 3 is that anything over 1m your out on your own, active cables are not correct way to maintain integrity.
Keeping runs under 50cm at most less than 1 metre should be ideal.
The logical conclusion is you need to move your USB deivce closer to the cable , mount a nuc or small pc to the scope. Also not all vendors usb cables and ports are made to correct specification.
It all depends on how the controllers are routed internally whether they are being shared, whether you have adequate power etc etc.
Certain manufacturers are better than others. I for example generally favour ASUS but even then YUMV.
Startech USB hubs are very good IMHO but cables can be hit and miss. Also I give a shout out to lindy USB 3 cables ( 50cm ).
Beware of the usual things like wifi interference on the 2.4ghz, hence why keeping the runs shorter improves the antenna effect
) with reduced ROI - 3000 x 100 pixel.
