Going away to some nice bortle 2 skies in a couple of weeks with a few non-astronomy friends so thinking of doing a simple setup for them to explore the skies with me. Anyone know of any good, simple guides for getting setup for basic EAA?
Looking at the gear in your sig, you're pretty much already set up for some EAA Mark. Your AZ-EQ5 is perfectly suitable for EAA with the C8 or the 102mm. You would probably want to use an f/6.3 reducer on the C8 so that you're not shooting at f/10 which might limit your FOV too much. At f/6.3 you can easily go for planetaries, galaxies, globulars, small to mid sized open clusters and smaller nebs like the Trifid. There's heaps that you could reel in with just the C8. At f/6.3 your exposures would be shorter than at f/10 too, allowing you to limit exposure times to get a little bit more of the real time feel for the EAA session.
Are you using the C8 with an off axis guider by any chance? Your gear would probably work fairly well for EAA in that configuration for longer exposures if you were so inclined. If you wanted to limit yourself to say, 30 second subs, you could get away without guiding if you're setting up in EQ mode and polar aligned. In ALT/AZ mode you'll battle field rotation a little bit and be limited to fairly short exposures depending upon where in the sky you're pointing. There might be a little more fuss involved in ALT/AZ mode.
Sharpcap Pro would see you through most EAA activities from focusing, to polar aligning, to real time stacking / viewing / histogram adjustments etc.
You could use Stellarium to navigate the sky and for slewing the telescope to objects of interest.
I might be telling you everything that you already know mate. If that's the case, please move along lol. Nothing to see here
What are the specs of your 102mm. Does it give you a wider field of view compared to the C8 at f/6.3? If it does, it could be perfect for hauling in larger nebs, galaxy clusters and larger objects in general.
I'm jealous of the skies you'll be going to mate. I've almost forgotten what Bortle 2 skies are like
Make sure you get it all working before you get out there. Most non-astronomy people have pretty short attention spans when it comes to someone fussing over equipment trying to get something to happen. Also, based on my experience, people may say they are interested, but when it comes to standing around in the cold in the dark, interest quickly fades. Hard core astronomy nuts, will have their freezer suit, and are prepared to tough it out long after the civilians have retired to the van, or the fire.
It is hard to tell from your enquiry, just what type and level of information you are seeking.
I agree with Dean and Glenn. As per Dean’s comments, you appear to have all the gear that you need if you add a laptop and USB3 cables to the mix. I would spend the next week or so practicing as suggested by Glen.
If you have not tried EAA before, my suggestion would be to set up and practice initially with the 102mm refractor. This scope will give you excellent EAA views for a wide range of targets, including the larger trophy galaxies such as M83 and Centaurus A. Set up during the day to check everything works and then try a couple of live EAA sessions with SharpCap. The refractor is an easier place to start. The jump up to the longer focal length with the C8 (with focal reducer) is then one step easier.
This EAA guide might fill in some gaps for you, although, from your equipment list, you may already be across this information.
Alternatively, are you actually looking for suggestions on settings for EAA sessions, eg exposure, gain etc and how to manage the live stacking process and histogram adjustments to tease out the fine detail and colour in you EAA snapshots?
Thanks for all the replies. I will certainly be testing it all out beforehand if the weather over the next couple of weeks permits, even if it's just doing solar during the day. I'm not too worried if the others lose a little interest, it will be good practice & I can always switch to normal imaging to make the most of the darker skies - which I would be doing later in the evening anyway.
As for gear:
AZ-EQ5 mount
300mm F4 camera lens
102mm ED refractor with 0.8x reducer (~F5.6)
ASI294MM Pro for mono and/or Ha
ASI224MC
DSLR perhaps for even wider shots like Car Neb?
ASI120MM-S for guiding
Sharpcap Pro - yet to purchase so haven't used this. Will certainly need to practice with it.
Not sure yet if I'll piggyback the 300mm in eq mode or setup in alt/az. Won't be taking the SCT this time, any reasonable breeze will make it a waste of time and we've been getting too much of that lately (unless I decide I want to do some planetary of course).
That's a great link gear-wise Steve, I'll have a good read through it.
Quote:
Alternatively, are you actually looking for suggestions on settings for EAA sessions, eg exposure, gain etc and how to manage the live stacking process and histogram adjustments to tease out the fine detail and colour in you EAA snapshots?
I guess that's what it really is coming down to. As well as the types of targets I should be looking for. I don't think they'll be hanging around late enough for the planets anyway (so no need for the SCT), but the 1st quarter moon will be a start for the evening. How do I determine what to capture - I'm guessing globular clusters will be good too, but nebulae, what type are good for short exposure mono or OSC? How do I determine what will work? I wish Orion was around...
A couple of options, seeing your full equipment list:
Couple the 294MM to your 102ED with reducer. You will get a pleasingly wide FOV and being mono the image detail will emerge faster and be of greater detail and contrast. The downside is you will miss the colour wow factor. Actually, many EAA observers, especially those chasing galaxies, prefer the mono option for it's speed and finer detail.
Alternatively, couple your 224MC to your 102ED with reducer. The FOV will be much smaller, but still sufficient for virtually all targets except for the large nebula. The bonus is full colour.
You can check out the FOV for these options at astronomytools.
All my EAA is with a 103mm ED refractor with dedicated reducer giving 533mm focal length coupled with an ASI385. This is a small sensor but a step up from the 224. I have attached some observations below to give you an idea of what is possible.
Given you are starting out, I suggest you limit your observations to one or two areas of the sky and target a relatively small number of bright objects.
Centaurus-Crux_Carina region: Double star - Alpha Centauri (closest system to Earth, exoplanets around Proxima etc story), Open clusters - Jewel Box, Pearl cluster, Gem cluster, Globulars - Omega Centauri and nearby NGC5286, Nebula - Carina and Running Chicken (maybe a little faint as a starter), galaxies - Centaurus A and nearby NGC4946 (Cigar Galaxy). It is only a short hop into nearby Hydra to finish off with the Southern Pinwheel M83.
I have attached some of my observations with my ED103 to give you an idea. These are based on about 12 months learning and experience at EAA. Still a long way to go. These are all EAA live stacks with all enhancements, stretching and colour balancing down during the stack. There is no post processing involved.
Open clusters and Globulars respond well with short exposures and avoids star bloat as much as possible. For me, these are typically 2 sec frames at gain300 for a total stack of 2-3 minutes. For nebulae and galaxies, I generally use 8-15 sec frames at gain between 200 and 300 depending on how faint the object is. Good images appear after only a couple of minutes for faint objects, but I generally extend the stack to about 10 minutes to improve the signal to noise ratio.
I hope this makes sense. I am guessing that your biggest challenge is to get a handle on SharpCap so that you can generate some wow images on the night.
Agree with what others say.
Keep it simple - avoid guiding and go with sub-10-15 sec subs.
If using DSLR make sure you have it working with sharpcap beforehand. It's not straightforward. Need the ascom driver written by someone over on CN. Or use backyard Eos With astrotoaster ( see Carl Smith's YouTube's)
Thanks Steve, great suggestions there. Will be down there a few nights so might try the 224MC the first night to see how it goes. One thing that AgenaAstro article mentions is the use of the cheap 0.5x reducers with small sensor cameras. I have one I purchased a few years ago but never used, have you tried them? I may test this out and see the quality & FoV it gives. Would really like to give them a little colour punch that first night.
As you say, the main thing will be getting SharpCap sorted over the next week or so.
I have no experience with the generic reducers. I see others reporting a lot of aberrations in the outer sections of the FOV if you look closely. I suspect your friends would not notice this. Only way to find out is to put it on and give it a go.
Yes, SharpCap is quite a steep learning curve. But, it is the best, once you master it, IMHO. I overlooked another option in my earlier post. Given you are using ASI cameras, I suggest you download and try ASI Studio for image acquisition and stacking. It is a simple, no fuss solution with a minimal learning curve compared with SharpCap. It will produce good quality images that will wow your friends with a much shorter leaning curve.
Thanks Steve. Will test out the reducer with the 224MC & see how it works. Thanks for the ASI Studio suggestion, didn't even think of that, only ever used ASIcap for the moon.
Cheers,
Mark
Ok, have a setup I'll be testing over the next few nights:
ASI224MC
102mm ED F/7 triplet
Bintel 0.5x 1.25" focal reducer (giving me ~357mm @ F3.5)
AZ-EQ5 Pro in EQ mode
ASILive for stacking
One change I may test over this week is instead of the 0.5x reducer & the scope I could just use the 224MC with my 300mm F/4 Canon lens. Would mean less to cart down & a lighter, easier setup. ASILive seems simple enough, just need practice to get the stack looking good.
Have a list of about 25 "test" targets ranging across the night sky with magnitudes from the Wishing Well Cluster (mag 3) to the Tweezers Galaxy (mag 8.4). It includes galaxies, nebulae, open & closed clusters and will be whittled down to around half a dozen for each night if there is enough interest from those present.
Then I just need to work out what will be visible when. I know I will have a pretty clear view from the north-east, through the north around to the south-west, probably even right around to the south-east. But easterly is likely to be blocked by trees. Even so, it's a much bigger area of sky than I get at home, and darker.
Will post testing results when done - thanks for the help!
Two weeks from 24/6 is 8/7, (Friday) and Moon is Gibbous and getting fuller over that weekend. Any benefits of Bortle 2 skies will be lost in the moonlight at least visually. Moonset on 8/7 is around 12:45am eastern states and later each following night.
My only experience with EAA is with a mono Watec 120N of the Moon with Saturn occultation, Mars, Jupiter and Omega Centauri which resolved nicely in a TV-101.
I would keep it simple and go visual only and for that extra punch perhaps use a binoviewer if you have one for the Moon. It has plenty of wow factor especially at Gibbous phase as the 3D effect takes viewing the Moon to an extra level.
Well tested it out last night & it worked, though I don't think the 0.5x reducer is the answer. Will try again using just a 300mm camera lens. It gives me about the same FoV at F/4 and should allow for cleaner images.
These were the targets I tested last night - some worked well, like M20 & M83, while others Like M16 & NGC 6188 didn't do so well, though the clouds were starting to move in when I got these. All are 10 minute stacks with exposures from 1 second to 30 seconds. ASILive isn't too bad to use, fairly simple. Just a case of trying to get the histogram & display settings working together for the best result.
Two weeks from 24/6 is 8/7, (Friday) and Moon is Gibbous and getting fuller over that weekend. Any benefits of Bortle 2 skies will be lost in the moonlight at least visually. Moonset on 8/7 is around 12:45am eastern states and later each following night.
My only experience with EAA is with a mono Watec 120N of the Moon with Saturn occultation, Mars, Jupiter and Omega Centauri which resolved nicely in a TV-101.
I would keep it simple and go visual only and for that extra punch perhaps use a binoviewer if you have one for the Moon. It has plenty of wow factor especially at Gibbous phase as the 3D effect takes viewing the Moon to an extra level.
I'm not 'too' worried about the Moon, it will probably be the first target anyway. Hopefully I will be able to work around it. I've tried visual with some of these people before & I think EAA will be easier.
If they are interested I will be doing mono on the second night and while Ha probably isn't really suited for EAA I wouldn't mind testing a few high gain short exposures using my full setup with ROI set - I love Ha.
Then I can easily move to a few hours of normal imaging.
Well the 300mm lens is certainly better. This morning I figured out why some of the images aren't turning out as well as I was hoping - I'm connecting remotely to my laptop so I was trying to adjust them so they looked ok on my PC which of course is nowhere what they looked like on the laptop. The first image is the autosave from the laptop. Was surprised to be able to capture both The Dumbbell (15 sec exposures) & Helix (30 sec) Nebula as well as I did.
Well done, Mark. You are well on the way to giving your friends a wow factor EAA session on your camping trip.
The 300mm lens coupled to the 224 looks like a sweet spot for your EAA.
It's been a good learning experience & while the brilliant weather we have has forced our trip to be postponed there is always next time & I know of a few local families that are interested so I can do some outreach that way.
