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Old 27-09-2021, 12:52 PM
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It's been over 16 weeks here now. We've been hit hard and in lockdown 5km radius because Liverpool/Fairfield are LGAs of concern. 1st dose in May and double dosed since 1st of August so low risk of transmitting. Eventually we're going to have to open up so everything starts functioning again. Unvaccinated people will always be most at risk but that's changing quick now looking at the daily numbers of 2nd jabs.
  #42  
Old 27-09-2021, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnF View Post
\
Thanks Lewis. In our area are a number of Doctor who refuse getting vaccinated. I hitchhike a lift with one GP doctor who when I asked if she is getting vaccinated, said "I am still researching it." In Hanover 2/3 of the medical doctors and there staff refused to get vaccinated.

I got banned from the men's shed where I was a member because i am not vaccinated. Some say do not listen to what youtube & social media tells you. But the one I listen to was a Professor of Zoology, head of the department. PHD in Comparative Physiology, who taught immunology to Medical Students at his university.
So John tell me why you wont get vaccinated given on the balance that seems to be the preferred opinion..

What is it that you fear and please be specific and support your answer with some sort of evidence.. if you wish to claim two thirds of medical staff, whatever, refuse to be vacinated I think we need more...like who are they what are their individual reasons and do those reasons have any basis in fact.

It seems the folk refusing vacination do not have something that justifies their stand and given you are one of those people please tell me and all here why you fear vacination.

Further your youtube dude does he still teach? If he is successful why is he on youtube? if not teaching any more why not?.. always be prepared to find nutters in positions where they really should not be.... and why single out these folk over other experts?

I think you deserve to be thrown out of the mens shed and I hope you stay out of Casino and Lismore as I go there as do friends and family ... Anyways tell me why you choose to be a potential risk...as I see it.
Alex
  #43  
Old 27-09-2021, 01:06 PM
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A lot of people are idiots and simply just don't follow the rules. They really don't know what the word "freedom" means. Look what's happening in Kabul, then they will see what freedom really is!

It's a real shame because many, many people still don't get what the phrase "global pandemic" means. It has affected every country in the world to some degree and the virus is very much real. We are in uncharted territories but there is still a bunch of people who need to go get their coffee everyday or just go out, they just can't stay home. They will complain that they have no time to do anything because of work, outings, etc but then when we have restrictions they complain that they can't go out.

We are so very lucky this didn't happened before the age of the internet then we would really have been in lockdown. Wouldn't be able to order groceries online, keep in contact with friends and loved ones around the world like now and would be in a much worse of place as there would be more people moving around.

Humanity worked together to put a man on the Moon and it was only possible by uniting and working torwards a common goal. Once it starts effecting peoples everyday lifes that's where we fail.

I hope in the future as a species we all work together to overcome the many challenges that the world will throw at us. That is the only way to be successful.

My childrens, children might live through another pandemic in 100 or so years and I hope they do a much better job than we have.
  #44  
Old 27-09-2021, 01:16 PM
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The main reason I got my two jabs was not to save myself but to be one more in the number of folk that could not pass it on hopefully..you know thinking of others....my days are numbered it seems but I can choose to act responsibly...further...sure things can go wrong and there may be screw ups but that does not justify folk ignoring what is necessary...you just dont say..NSW screwed up so lets not try anymore...to take that attitude is a childish cop out.

AND my doctor sounds smart as he could tell me everything and had researched the matter well before I saw him..
Fancy a doctor and after all this time can not complete her research...on you youtube or reading scientific papers????I would love to know who she is..from Nimbin I guess.

..and my doctor was able to suggest this over that because I had a high blood clotting risk..well no problems..not even a saw arm...I really think folk who wont get vacinated are big sooks looking for any lame excuse not to suffer the terrible pain from a little needle...and not a thought about others...and John..really should you be hitch hiking ? And really should that doctor have picked you up..the situation says so much about each of you...it would seem in breach of lock down rules..I suppose that you are above those rules?
So here is your chance share your fact please.

Alex
  #45  
Old 27-09-2021, 01:20 PM
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As far as I know, Zoology and Comparative Physiology, have limited, and almost zero relevance respectively to immunology, so why would this Professor be teaching it to medical students?
raymo

Last edited by raymo; 27-09-2021 at 01:26 PM. Reason: more text
  #46  
Old 27-09-2021, 01:44 PM
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While I understand your excitement Marc, I’m really struggling to be excited about swapping what we have over here fir what you have over there.

I get that we have to move forward at some stage, but we do have it pretty good over here from many points of view.

Just my 2c
1st trip to the hair dresser with grass shears then off to a dark site somewhere.
  #47  
Old 27-09-2021, 01:46 PM
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As far as I know, Zoology and Comparative Physiology, have limited, and almost zero relevance respectively to immunology, so why would this Professor be teaching it to medical students?
raymo
I was hoping John may figure that out Raymo...so many folk say in effect .."he is a scientist so his opinion is worth having" ..in effect..er well no..like everything science has various specialised fields and really if you are not working in a particular field your opinion is no better than a layman's..like why would you think a guy working in General Relativity should have any cred in say climate science...in law as with medicine you have your local lawyer or doctor who basically has the job of reasonably identifying your condition ( or legal problem) then referring you to a medical specialist or in a legal case sending you off to see a Barrister who does that work day in day out..like would you send a client going thru a divorce to a workers compensation barrister?

But most folk just do not think..heck I am a mug and I seem to not be taken in by internet cranks...first ask..who are they, what are their qualifications, what is their area of specialisation, have they written any papers, why the need to host a youtube channel? Having that need strikes me as suggesting some lack of self esteem which one must always wonder about.

Alex
  #48  
Old 27-09-2021, 01:47 PM
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1st trip to the hair dresser with grass shears then off to a dark site somewhere.
Manbun the hair. Well we can rule out QLD and WA for your Dark Skies retreat
  #49  
Old 27-09-2021, 01:51 PM
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Manbun the hair. Well we can rule out QLD and WA for your Dark Skies retreat
WA is a little far. QLD, well... Astrofest got cancelled 2 years in a row and won't be up this year either. But Wiruna is alive and well so hopefully I can go there.
  #50  
Old 27-09-2021, 01:59 PM
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Well said Raymo.

One can easily find a vaguely related academic to give you something to misquote. Newspapers have discovered this. The question is , are they widely published in peer reviewed journals for articles in the field.? Were they asked to check the article and quote?

Even though even many medical people do not fully understand immunology, which is just about as specialised as it gets, an informed scientist will always give us practical measures, wear a mask, wash your hands correctly, get vaccinated, stay outside in public away from others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raymo View Post
As far as I know, Zoology and Comparative Physiology, have limited, and almost zero relevance respectively to immunology, so why would this Professor be teaching it to medical students?
raymo
  #51  
Old 27-09-2021, 02:10 PM
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Alex, I’m fairly sure that being jabbed doesn’t stop you passing it on to others if you were to get covid.
  #52  
Old 27-09-2021, 02:18 PM
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Alex, I’m fairly sure that being jabbed doesn’t stop you passing it on to others if you were to get covid.
I can not work with " fairly sure" and it seems I need to know more ..however..what the facts may or may not be does not detract from my motivation and even if mistaken the fact remains I had the jabs holding the reasonable belief that I would be less risk to others...thanks for your worrying observation.
Alex
  #53  
Old 27-09-2021, 02:21 PM
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Alex, I’m fairly sure that being jabbed doesn’t stop you passing it on to others if you were to get covid.
A year ago they didn't know if it was the case. Not sure if they still don't now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgfeV9b1K4M&t=18s

  #54  
Old 27-09-2021, 02:35 PM
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US CDC has confirmed fully vaccinated people not only are contagious, but MORE contagious than unvaccinated due to their own bodies not uptaking the viral load - the increase in mucosa viral load is higher in vaccinated than not.


That's confirmed.

Quote:
"The delta coronavirus strain, now believed to account for most COVID-19 cases in the U.S., can generate significant viral loads in vaccinated people, raising alarm that even those who have received shots can spread the virus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Friday.


“High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with delta can transmit the virus,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the CDC, said in a statement. “This finding is concerning.”"
  #55  
Old 27-09-2021, 02:44 PM
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A year ago they didn't know if it was the case. Not sure if they still don't now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgfeV9b1K4M&t=18s

Now there we have what appeared to be an honest and frank set of answers but when you read the comments you get these negative people who are just happy to critise..like saying " they know nothing" in effect..well clearly they know a great deal and are working on solutions it would seem..is that not good enough for all these ding bats..

So where is John? Hitching home?

Anyways..I have not suffered as I have been in and out of hospital but in both cases bed ridden except for the trips into town for blood tests or to see my doctor or specialists..I am still being careful and responsible.

Thanks for the video Marc.
Alex
  #56  
Old 27-09-2021, 02:48 PM
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US CDC has confirmed fully vaccinated people not only are contagious, but MORE contagious than unvaccinated due to their own bodies not uptaking the viral load - the increase in mucosa viral load is higher in vaccinated than not.


That's confirmed.

Quote:
"The delta coronavirus strain, now believed to account for most COVID-19 cases in the U.S., can generate significant viral loads in vaccinated people, raising alarm that even those who have received shots can spread the virus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Friday.


“High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with delta can transmit the virus,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the CDC, said in a statement. “This finding is concerning.”"
Got a link to that article? I couldn't find it on the CDC website. The only thing I could find is an article dated 06/08/2021 that says that fully vaccinated people spread the virus (delta variant) for a shorter time.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...a-variant.html

Quote:
  • Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.
  #57  
Old 27-09-2021, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
I can not work with " fairly sure" and it seems I need to know more ..however..what the facts may or may not be does not detract from my motivation and even if mistaken the fact remains I had the jabs holding the reasonable belief that I would be less risk to others...thanks for your worrying observation.
Alex
Hi Alex,
Studies in the US, Singapore and UK have all shown that:

Vaccinated people can become infected, but the risks of serious illness and hospitalisation are significantly reduced.

Vaccinated people are much less likely to become infected.

Vaccinated people who do get infected stay infectious for about half the time that unvaccinated do.

All of the above means that vaccination both protects you and reduces the risk of passing infection to others.

Stay Safe Alex - it’s great to have around again!

C
  #58  
Old 27-09-2021, 03:50 PM
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You shouldn't be thanking Lewis, he is urging us to get our shots, which is contrary to your view.
raymo

I sure am urging vaccination. The real data definitely agrees.

What I don't always agree with is the over-hype and sensation, and pure ignorance and more so, ARROGANCE around it. The amount of division within the community is alarming and very disturbing and a definite wall of vaxxed vs unvaxxed exists. That is exactly what we DO NOT need.

People still have a choice. With evidence showing vaxxed are dangerously contagious as well, the piousness shouldn't exist. Yet, of course, the government is not showing a lot of the data, unless you dig.

I believe NONE of what I see on the news - NONE. I read for myself, make my own opinion.

Here is the PDF of the CDC report (a confirmed genuine document): https://www.washingtonpost.com/conte...4e4e25f2e/?_=1

(I can email the original to anyone - it's too large to upload here).

The key points from it:
Delta is different from previous strainsHighly contagious Likely more severeBreakthrough infections may be as transmissible as unvaccinated casesVaccines prevent >90% of severe disease, but may be less effective at preventing infection or transmissionTherefore, more breakthrough and more community spread despite vaccination


I did make some errors in a prior statement, but for transparency, I won't redact or change the erroneous statement.
  #59  
Old 27-09-2021, 04:12 PM
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ah ok. That looks like a power point presentation by the Washington post but not sure who wrote it in the first place. There is a disclaimer in the last slide:

Quote:
For more information, contact CDC
1-800-CDC-INFO (232-4636)
TTY: 1-888-232-6348 www.cdc.gov
The findings and conclusions in this report are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent the
official position of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
It could be an opinion piece. I asked because I couldn't find any of this info on the actual CDC website.
  #60  
Old 27-09-2021, 04:25 PM
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Totally agree with the sentiments in your previous post Lewis.

The politicisation, misinformation and hype around COVID vaccines is unprecedented. The instant nature of communication these days should work in favour of rapidly proliferating fact based information, unfortunately this often gets swamped by crap peddled by extremists and charlatans, sadly some of them posing as politicians.

Some of us are old enough to understand the value of vaccination based on real life experiences. I was born and lived in England until 1982. My mother nursed her sick father suffering with TB, the result being she contracted TB and passed away before I was old enough to know and remember her.

My now wife and I when courting used to walk past a house with a large bay window, which contained a double bed kitted out with an electrically powered iron lung occupied by a young ex nurse, who whilst nursing an infected patient contacted polio that paralysed her from the neck down. She lived in permanent fear of power cuts.

Just two examples of diseases that have been eradicated by vaccines in all but third world countries. I understand that this vaccine was developed quickly, but that was a result of limitless funds and effort. The technology has been around for years and has been adapted for COVID. Even the newer mRNA based vaccines technology was developed at least 4 years before COVID appeared as part of research towards vaccines for diseases like HIV, which is still a work in progress.

So, please all get vaccinated as soon as possible if you haven’t already done so and let us get back to at least some sort of normality in the next few months.
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