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  #21  
Old 09-05-2022, 09:26 PM
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RB (Andrew)
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Yes, it is worth reading.

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  #22  
Old 10-05-2022, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by peter_4059 View Post
Well I'm just not really understanding it, so each group it stacks has the best 80%
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  #23  
Old 10-05-2022, 05:51 PM
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Here's my understanding - others feel free to chime in if you see it differently...

The rejection algorithm is trying to reject outliers. It does this on a pixel by pixel basis. To determine what is real signal and what is an outlier for a given pixel the only information it has is the value of that pixel in each of the subs.

Sigma refers to the standard deviation of the pixel values. If you take ten subs of increasing exposure, for a given pixel (lets say part of a star) you might get values of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. The mean value is 5.5 and the standard deviation is 3.03.

If the algorithm is set to reject anything that is outside the range of mean +/- one standard deviation (5.5+3.03=8.53) (5.5-3.03=2.47) then data with values less than 2.47 and greater than 8.53 are not included in the stack. So the subs with pixel values 1, 2, 9 and 10 are not included.

The significance of this for you is if you take a whole lot of different exposures and then stack them all together, the rejection algorithm might be rejecting the shortest and longest exposures as outliers. If you have taken 20 x 180 sec subs (ie one hour worth) in an attempt to capture the faint detail, it would be a shame if these were rejected from your final image. The same goes for the short exposures however you obviously spent a lot less time capturing these.

"Kappa-Sigma Clipping
This method is used to reject deviant pixels iteratively.
Two parameters are used: the number of iterations and the standard deviation multiplier used (Kappa).
For each iteration, the mean and standard deviation (Sigma) of the pixels in the stack are computed.
Each pixel which value is farthest from the mean than more than Kappa * Sigma is rejected.
The mean of the remaining pixels in the stack is computed for each pixel."

There are other rejection routines that are designed to combine different exposures for HDR purposes:

Entropy Weighted Average (High Dynamic Range)
This method is based on the work of German, Jenkin and Lesperance (see Entropy-Based image merging - 2005) and is used to stack the picture while keeping for each pixel the best dynamic.
It is particularly useful when stacking pictures taken with different exposure times and ISO speeds, and it creates an averaged picture with the best possible dynamic. To put it simply it avoids burning galaxies and nebula centers.

Last edited by peter_4059; 10-05-2022 at 06:02 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2022, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_4059 View Post
Here's my understanding - others feel free to chime in if you see it differently...

The rejection algorithm is trying to reject outliers. It does this on a pixel by pixel basis. To determine what is real signal and what is an outlier for a given pixel the only information it has is the value of that pixel in each of the subs.

Sigma refers to the standard deviation of the pixel values. If you take ten subs of increasing exposure, for a given pixel (lets say part of a star) you might get values of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. The mean value is 5.5 and the standard deviation is 3.03.

If the algorithm is set to reject anything that is outside the range of mean +/- one standard deviation (5.5+3.03=8.53) (5.5-3.03=2.47) then data with values less than 2.47 and greater than 8.53 are not included in the stack. So the subs with pixel values 1, 2, 9 and 10 are not included.

The significance of this for you is if you take a whole lot of different exposures and then stack them all together, the rejection algorithm might be rejecting the shortest and longest exposures as outliers. If you have taken 20 x 180 sec subs (ie one hour worth) in an attempt to capture the faint detail, it would be a shame if these were rejected from your final image. The same goes for the short exposures however you obviously spent a lot less time capturing these.

"Kappa-Sigma Clipping
This method is used to reject deviant pixels iteratively.
Two parameters are used: the number of iterations and the standard deviation multiplier used (Kappa).
For each iteration, the mean and standard deviation (Sigma) of the pixels in the stack are computed.
Each pixel which value is farthest from the mean than more than Kappa * Sigma is rejected.
The mean of the remaining pixels in the stack is computed for each pixel."

There are other rejection routines that are designed to combine different exposures for HDR purposes:

Entropy Weighted Average (High Dynamic Range)
This method is based on the work of German, Jenkin and Lesperance (see Entropy-Based image merging - 2005) and is used to stack the picture while keeping for each pixel the best dynamic.
It is particularly useful when stacking pictures taken with different exposure times and ISO speeds, and it creates an averaged picture with the best possible dynamic. To put it simply it avoids burning galaxies and nebula centers.
I thought it did it for each set of subs
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2022, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ughy View Post
I thought it did it for each set of subs
Is that what the manual says?
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2022, 08:10 PM
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will only stack images that contain at least eight stars that are common between all light framhes. ,.........


Kappa-Sigma Clipping
This method is used to reject deviant pixels iteratively.
Two parameters are used: the number of iterations and the standard deviation multiplier used (Kappa).
For each iteration, the mean and standard deviation (Sigma) of the pixels in the stack are computed.
Each pixel which value is farthest from the mean than more than Kappa * Sigma is rejected.
The mean of the remaining pixels in the stack is computed for each pixel.

But it doesn't say it's not all the images or just the individual timed lots . So I have no idea
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  #27  
Old 11-05-2022, 04:32 PM
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The image looks great - lots of colour and pin-point stars.

I have to ask, though - why so many different exposure lengths?

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Originally Posted by h0ughy View Post
I start with 1 second, 5 second, 10 second 30 seconds, 60 seconds 120 seconds and 180 seconds with 20 images
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  #28  
Old 11-05-2022, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AstroViking View Post
The image looks great - lots of colour and pin-point stars.

I have to ask, though - why so many different exposure lengths?
well my theory is that the shorter shots help give colour to the stars without blowing or saturating them out
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  #29  
Old 11-05-2022, 04:50 PM
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That makes sense. Thanks, h0ughy.
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  #30  
Old 11-05-2022, 05:47 PM
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And why is the background green?. I know people at IIS you know (I think), could be all kinds of trouble for you.
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  #31  
Old 11-05-2022, 06:05 PM
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And why is the background green?. I know people at IIS you know (I think), could be all kinds of trouble for you.
Does that look green on your screen?
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  #32  
Old 11-05-2022, 06:12 PM
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well yeah, very. I calibrated my screen many months ago with a spider thing. I might be wrong.
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  #33  
Old 11-05-2022, 06:20 PM
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well yeah, very. I calibrated my screen many months ago with a spider thing. I might be wrong.
Fair enough, though I did run hastalavista green

Last edited by h0ughy; 11-05-2022 at 06:39 PM.
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