I captured 6 hrs ( 3 min dithered guided subs) on M16 last night with my 2600MC , L Extreme and 6” Newt under a descending 48% waxing moon ( used Gain 0 HDR ) Conditions were excellent guiding at around 0.60 total until it deteriorated in the early hours
Camera was cooled to -10C and I captured calibration frames as well
The above procedures I’ve been doing for 2 years now with this camera and had good results on a wide variety of objects at both my imaging sites
Stacked and Processed the data today and the stretched imaged is extremely noisy and the level of nebulosity is like I was using a DSLR with 60 sec subs
I did notice the cooling drop to - 8.3 C st one stage , it’s never ever done that in 2 years I’ve been using the camera
The stretched image is like I was using a DSLR really poor noisy data
Question
The camera is just over 2 years old ( out of warranty) should I perform a ZWO Firmware update ??
It’s as if the camera has lost its performance
Appreciate any advice
I know I’m imaging under Bortle 7/8 but I’ve never had such a noisy image and it’s not as if I’m short of data , there’s plenty of data to stack
I also changed settings in DSS , same outcomes
In addition, I did image the Helix last week and captured 6 hrs ( 3 min subs ) -10C with L Extreme , Cal frames and so on , similar situation, really noisy and stars were all saturated ( I used Gain 100 )
I think there’s definitely something wrong with my camera as it’s been performing well for 2 years at both sites , Bortle 7/8 and Bortle 3
Camera connects fine and operates correctly with my capture software APT
Next clear night I’ll be out testing my backside off trying all scenarios
I’m currently running the camera off the capture Laptop in my Study for 4 or 5 hours to check cooling status every hour
No dew on the first lens of the new coma corrector ? Now that the first lens is at the end of the focuser draw tube, poking out into the OTA, it is far more susceptible to dew compared with the MPCC that had the protection of the draw tube.
Hi Martin- I’m not sure if it’s related but I’ve also been struggling with lots of noise in my images over the last week (same osc). I just assumed it was atmospheric conditions (humidity,dew,high cloud) as these can all contribute. Without seeing your images it’s impossible to say if we’re talking about the same thing tho…
Couple of question tho:
Do you run the cameras anti-dew heater?
Maybe a screenshot or stack showing the noise might be useful to see if there’s any recognisable profile?
Cheers
Sorry to hear that Martin. Having a look at the stack would be helpful; a sub too (especially at the time when temperature dropped). The fact that your temperature dropped is relevant. Sometimes with electronics it's just a matter of turning the camera off, then on again, and the issue is gone. Let's hope so.
Sorry to hear that Martin. Having a look at the stack would be helpful; a sub too (especially at the time when temperature dropped). The fact that your temperature dropped is relevant. Sometimes with electronics it's just a matter of turning the camera off, then on again, and the issue is gone. Let's hope so.
Any particular noise patterns or vignetting?
No noise pattern as dithering always takes care of that issue
It’s just a high level of background noise
I’ll post some photos of a stacked initial stretched image and compare it to one I captured a month or so ago under similar conditions and settings etc
No dew on the first lens of the new coma corrector ? Now that the first lens is at the end of the focuser draw tube, poking out into the OTA, it is far more susceptible to dew compared with the MPCC that had the protection of the draw tube.
Ryan
Thanks , good point
Conditions were perfect
Low humidity, slight breeze
No dew all at even at 3am
Hi Martin- I’m not sure if it’s related but I’ve also been struggling with lots of noise in my images over the last week (same osc). I just assumed it was atmospheric conditions (humidity,dew,high cloud) as these can all contribute. Without seeing your images it’s impossible to say if we’re talking about the same thing tho…
Couple of question tho:
Do you run the cameras anti-dew heater?
Maybe a screenshot or stack showing the noise might be useful to see if there’s any recognisable profile?
Cheers
Hope it’s just conditions but normally it’s never this bad considering the amount of data and the seeing was excellent, guiding was great for hours
ZWO advise to run the anti dew 24/7
I posted that question a month after I bought the camera
I’ll post some image comparisons
My money is on seeing conditions looking good but actually very bad...I notice because of short subs ..stars look like they are breathing and what appears to be noise probably isn't.
ANYWAYSI am experiencing similar...I am dropping 80% of subs and even the ones left are not flash and noise like never before...temp is not a problem
I set up the camera tonight in my Study and set a 3 hour plan with 180 sec subs ( darks ) and cooled to -10C to simulate running a capture outside on the mount
Checked the camera every half an hour and the cooling maintained temperature between -9.8C and -10C , so unless I’ve got a suspect 12v cable outside , the camera cooling system is ok for now
These 2 images have been stacked , opened in Startools and auto stretched with just a bin , crop and a basic wipe ( no processing )
M8 Lagoon was capture a month or so ago on a similar night , same set up , 50% Waxing moon , 180 sec subs , similar integration but using Gain 100 or lowest read noise
M16 from last night using Gain 0 highest dynamic range 180 sec subs
By the way compare files sizes after saving as jpegs to upload
M8 805KB
M16 1.98MB ( 50% more noise ) I’ve had to reduce this image file size to load it into IIS
I’m going to have to image M16 again using Gain 100 lowest read noise and same subs etc…., but the moon won’t be the same week after next , heading into the new moon period ( crap weather for the next 8 days ) It’s not going to be a fair comparison
There seems to be a streakiness in the noise in the lower left. It would probably help if we had the full frame to look at though so we can see the noise away from the signal of the neb. How come it’s in black and white too ?
I set up the camera tonight in my Study and set a 3 hour plan with 180 sec subs ( darks ) and cooled to -10C to simulate running a capture outside on the mount
Checked the camera every half an hour and the cooling maintained temperature between -9.8C and -10C , so unless I’ve got a suspect 12v cable outside , the camera cooling system is ok for now
These 2 images have been stacked , opened in Startools and auto stretched with just a bin , crop and a basic wipe ( no processing )
M8 Lagoon was capture a month or so ago on a similar night , same set up , 50% Waxing moon , 180 sec subs , similar integration but using Gain 100 or lowest read noise
M16 from last night using Gain 0 highest dynamic range 180 sec subs
By the way compare files sizes after saving as jpegs to upload
M8 805KB
M16 1.98MB ( 50% more noise ) I’ve had to reduce this image file size to load it into IIS
I’m going to have to image M16 again using Gain 100 lowest read noise and same subs etc…., but the moon won’t be the same week after next , heading into the new moon period ( crap weather for the next 8 days ) It’s not going to be a fair comparison
I’ve never had such a noisy image from my 2600MC
Comments welcome
Looks like ice on the sensor, maybe remove and recharge the desiccant
Also try the suspect cable inside. but I reckon icy sensor
Martin,
How do your darks look.
I think I’ve been having a similar problem.
If I cool the camera and start taking darks for instance, when I autostretch they will come out looking black and noisy. Not grey when auto stretched.
This will go away eventually and start producing cleaner images.
I’m about to send my 533mc back to get looked at as I was getting really clean images after I first bought it.
My theory is the cooler or associated electronics is causing it.
There seems to be a streakiness in the noise in the lower left. It would probably help if we had the full frame to look at though so we can see the noise away from the signal of the neb. How come it’s in black and white too ?
Ryan
Startools operates visually in luminance until you hit the colour module towards the end of your processing ( just before noise reduction) entirely different from PI. All the signal data is tracked
Martin,
How do your darks look.
I think I’ve been having a similar problem.
If I cool the camera and start taking darks for instance, when I autostretch they will come out looking black and noisy. Not grey when auto stretched.
This will go away eventually and start producing cleaner images.
I’m about to send my 533mc back to get looked at as I was getting really clean images after I first bought it.
My theory is the cooler or associated electronics is causing it.
Thanks
The 2600MC doesn’t require darks , in fact it’s better to calibrate without them , I use Bias instead and they look ok
Worst case scenario is sending the camera back for inspection and service ( lengthy process at the moment )
I set up the camera tonight in my Study and set a 3 hour plan with 180 sec subs ( darks ) and cooled to -10C to simulate running a capture outside on the mount
Checked the camera every half an hour and the cooling maintained temperature between -9.8C and -10C , so unless I’ve got a suspect 12v cable outside , the camera cooling system is ok for now
These 2 images have been stacked , opened in Startools and auto stretched with just a bin , crop and a basic wipe ( no processing )
M8 Lagoon was capture a month or so ago on a similar night , same set up , 50% Waxing moon , 180 sec subs , similar integration but using Gain 100 or lowest read noise
M16 from last night using Gain 0 highest dynamic range 180 sec subs
By the way compare files sizes after saving as jpegs to upload
M8 805KB
M16 1.98MB ( 50% more noise ) I’ve had to reduce this image file size to load it into IIS
I’m going to have to image M16 again using Gain 100 lowest read noise and same subs etc…., but the moon won’t be the same week after next , heading into the new moon period ( crap weather for the next 8 days ) It’s not going to be a fair comparison
I’ve never had such a noisy image from my 2600MC
Comments welcome
Yeah, wow, I agree that is a pretty bad noise result on M16.
As you say the individual fits files look fine, have you tried stacking and stretching in other software just to rule out your current software as the cause?
Yeah, wow, I agree that is a pretty bad noise result on M16.
As you say the individual fits files look fine, have you tried stacking and stretching in other software just to rule out your current software as the cause?
Good suggestion
I’ve already stacked and stretched previous data from June and May again ( eg: M8 attached above ) and DSS and Startools are working fine
Thanks all for your suggestions and support
Greatly appreciated
I’m going to start from the bottom up and check off item by item until I find an answer on the issue
I don’t think the cause of the noisy image is entirely atmospheric conditions
Checklist
Reload update Ascom 6.6
Reload update Microsoft .Net Framework
Reload update both ZWO camera drivers
Update APT capture software
Clean camera sensor
Clean protective window on camera
Replace desiccant
Replace camera cables ( already done )
Perform cooling test for 3 to 4 hours ( already done )
Clean mirrors on scope
Re collimate scope
Clean L Extreme filter
Next clear night/s perform capture plan on object using Gain 100 with and without L Extreme filter for various exposure lengths 1 minute , 2 minute and 3 minute exposures
Perform capture plan using Gain 0 same as above
Hold off on a ZWO firmware update as this is only required when camera will not connect or operate via Ascom
Hopefully after all the updates , checks and testing I’ll get a definitive answer
Worse case scenario is sending the camera away for servicing and testing
