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  #1  
Old 14-10-2011, 07:52 PM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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Vendor sale forum?

It appears a few members are selling as dedicated (but undeclared) vendors....aka they are on the forum to sell only.

I don't really have an issue with this but it IMHO it would be appropriate for them to have their own for sale forum?

This gives buyers a clearer picture of who they are purchasing from.


Anyone?
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  #2  
Old 14-10-2011, 08:05 PM
Alchemy (Clive)
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I can think of 2 ..... A quick search on threads they started will show pretty much only sales.

However I did buy a scope from one of them ( pretty happy with it too)

Must admit I wonder where they get all the gear from.

That's as far as I would take it, happy to let them continue.
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  #3  
Old 14-10-2011, 08:05 PM
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koputai (Jason)
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These people are breaking several laws.

They are operating as a retailer whilst not declaring their profits as income for tax purposes, and they are selling commercially without providing a warranty.

Cheers,
Jason.
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  #4  
Old 14-10-2011, 08:58 PM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koputai View Post
These people are breaking several laws.

They are operating as a retailer whilst not declaring their profits as income for tax purposes, and they are selling commercially without providing a warranty.

Cheers,
Jason.
Well we don't know they are not declaring their income...not sure about commercial selling though....might change from state to state.

I'm more in the view that buyers at least identify that they are vendor sellers. I have no problem purchasing from them however.
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  #5  
Old 14-10-2011, 09:03 PM
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iceman (Mike)
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This has been brought up a few times, but investigation has showed that they're not vendors - just people who buy and sell stuff regularly - that's their astronomy interest.

There's no law against that.

If you have anyone specific in mind, PM me who you think they are and I'll investigate.
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  #6  
Old 14-10-2011, 09:12 PM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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No no one specific and no complaints just thought it might be a good idea for members to be able to differentiate between casual sellers and those not so casual.
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  #7  
Old 14-10-2011, 09:44 PM
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koputai (Jason)
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There's been two guys lately selling TMB eyepieces. They sell a bunch of them, then a while later have another bunch.

No regular amateur has 10x TMB 6mm and 10x TMB 9mm in their eyepiece case, then sells them, and a month later has another 10 in their eyepiece case to sell.

Cheers,
Jason.
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  #8  
Old 15-10-2011, 06:24 PM
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@Jason:

So what if they're bringing these EPs in so that people here can enjoy them at a very reasonable price! Why would that bother you or anyone?

I bought my (oberwerk) BT100-45 from someone on here that imports a few sets at a time. I was very happy to have them for $1500 v the $2k+, gst and customs hassles I'd have to suffer if I ordered them from OS.

And why would you give a rats whether they pay tax or not on money they make?

Just my 2c
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Old 15-10-2011, 06:36 PM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH View Post
@Jason:

So what if they're bringing these EPs in so that people here can enjoy them at a very reasonable price! Why would that bother you or anyone?

I bought my (oberwerk) BT100-45 from someone on here that imports a few sets at a time. I was very happy to have them for $1500 v the $2k+, gst and customs hassles I'd have to suffer if I ordered them from OS.

And why would you give a rats whether they pay tax or not on money they make?

Just my 2c
The above reason is a good reason why 3 telescopes shops have closed down in a short period of time. As long as you don't mind this from happening, this is a perfectly viable concept.

I also think it is a good idea as eventually many business's will close their doors and it will either be too late or someone may try to determine why this is happening and actively try to resolve it. I know from my experience the negative aspect of this is that I am getting a lot of service calls from people that are experiencing problems and I cannot help them. I don't think this is a major issue with telescope products though.
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  #10  
Old 15-10-2011, 06:59 PM
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DavidTrap (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCH View Post
And why would you give a rats whether they pay tax or not on money they make?

Just my 2c
Why should they get away with not paying tax? Shouldn't they pay their share? Some of us do abide by the law of the land.

DT
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  #11  
Old 15-10-2011, 07:03 PM
Alchemy (Clive)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mswhin63 View Post
The above reason is a good reason why 3 telescopes shops have closed down in a short period of time. As long as you don't mind this from happening, this is a perfectly viable concept.
.
The world of shopping is changing dramatically because of the Internet, once upon a time it would take extensive research to locate a product other than in your local retailer. Now it's all a google search away, so this kind of thing is inevitable.
Retailers need to offer that extra service you cant download, be it scope/ camera servicing, exhibition nights/ training or even scope/ camera hire. If they want to survive they have to think outside the square. If they offer good enough service they will survive.
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  #12  
Old 15-10-2011, 09:59 PM
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OICURMT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koputai View Post
There's been two guys lately selling TMB eyepieces. They sell a bunch of them, then a while later have another bunch.

No regular amateur has 10x TMB 6mm and 10x TMB 9mm in their eyepiece case, then sells them, and a month later has another 10 in their eyepiece case to sell.

Cheers,
Jason.
One of the persons in question is well known, he sells here and elsewhere and sources them from overseas (not aware of any Aussie EP manufacturers)... don't see what the problem is... and as I recall, everyone knows this and he's open about it as well.

As for laws... I don't do his taxes, don't even know the guy, just know that he delivered to me two fine EP's for my viewing pleasure at a very reasonable price. It is everyone's right to either pay taxes or not, you just have to be able to afford the consequences...

OIC!
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  #13  
Old 16-10-2011, 12:05 AM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
The world of shopping is changing dramatically because of the Internet,
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OICURMT View Post
As for laws... I don't do his taxes, don't even know the guy, just know that he delivered to me two fine EP's for my viewing pleasure at a very reasonable price. It is everyone's right to either pay taxes or not, you just have to be able to afford the consequences...

OIC!
I don't think that is the main issue of this topic. The T&C of the forum is commercial sense, I personally have changed my state to provide what ever I can to get me through Uni now which is the reason i never advertised initially some products that I was providing via word of mouth or eBay.

I think it is the T&C concerns here. If the person does not perform a business activity on the forum for business gain then it would appear suspect to T&C but like me they may just get stuff in adhoc where necessary and not in the business sense. I have always asked permission to post sales that may be considered a business concern. My business is mainly dealing with Deaf and Hard of Hearing, I know that setting up an proper Astro business is not going to work for me in Australia so I will just make things that I can access.
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  #14  
Old 16-10-2011, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOS Section 4
4. Vendors and Advertising
  • Vendors are not permitted to post advertising on the forums.
  • Advertising on or behalf of a vendor is not permitted either directly or indirectly by displaying links to a vendor in a member's signature.
  • Vendors are permitted to participate in discussions but not promote or sell their products. That is, they are free and welcome to post in their capacity as an amateur astronomer or stargazer but in their capacity as a vendor, they should only state information in a thread that discusses one of their products. Their signature may include a link to their company website, providing they seek permission from IceInSpace.
  • Vendors are to refrain from commenting on their competitors equipment/products (directly or indirectly). Please restrain your comments to products you manufacture or sell.
  • When discussing a vendor, be careful about what you post as it can be easy for comments to be taken the wrong way and a vendor may take offense. In general, remember to be specific about your experience or opinion, don't generalise and don't play judge and jury. Think and re-read before pressing submit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOS Section 10

10. IceTrade Classifieds Terms of Service
  • Persons holding out items for sale shall be truthful in their description of items for sale, and shall not be indemnified by the administrators or moderators of the site in respect of any claim that a purchasor may have against such vendor under any trade practices or sale of good legislation.
  • The administrators and moderators expressly have no liability for the transactions which may occur between members of the forum, whether through the medium of the IceTrade Classifieds, or otherwise.
  • Each forum member who purchases an item off another forum member does so at their own risk, and they expressly waive any entitlement to bring any claim against an administrator or moderator with respect to any such transaction.
  • Creating a thread to sell an item on behalf of a third party is not allowed. The seller must register to the forums and list the item themselves.
  • Items for sale on ebay or other auction site must not be listed in the IceTrade Classifieds.
  • Ads that are sold, or have had no activity for 2 months, will be moved to the Archives.
  • If you've sold your item, please edit the title to include "SOLD". If your ad is older than 2 weeks, contact a moderator to do it for you.
  • If you'd like your ad locked or deleted, simply ask a moderator to do so.
  • Please don't post replies to someone else's ad unless it's specifically related to the item - that is, if you're asking relevant questions about it, perhaps with a view to purchasing.
  • Keep off-topic and spam posts out of the IceTrade Classifieds. It's not going to help someone sell their gear if the threads contain off-topic posts.
  • Think before you post - if it's simply a comment or suggestion or similar, would it be best done via a PM or email?
  • Items listed for sale which breach any of the conditions above may be moved or removed.
I'm sorry, I don't see any violation of the TOS for anyone selling something here, save possibly Section 10, Item 5, if they have the same item on eBay or other site such as Astromart or CN...

Vendors are not allowed to advertise, but it says nothing about not being able to sell.

Hate to say it, but even dodgy stattonb didn't break the rules... as ripping people off is not against the TOS (though maybe it should be )
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  #15  
Old 20-10-2011, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OICURMT View Post
Vendors are not allowed to advertise.
Ummm I beg to differ ============>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
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  #16  
Old 21-10-2011, 07:35 AM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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I don't care if they (vendor sellers) advertise or sell but I think it's incumbent that the buyers (especially newbie's) know that they are buying from a vendor.

There are some members, who sell items, but are very active in the forums but this is not bulk wholsale buying and re-selling.

However, this is not the case with some sellers who only sell and not active members and who buy just to re-sell.

This doesn't mean I'm against vendors ...quite the opposite I'm fully for them participating and even buy from them.

This my not be against the TOS .....but hey maybe the TOS needs widening? Maybe even a vendor selling sub-forum would be appropriate for this?...food for thought.
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  #17  
Old 21-10-2011, 08:21 AM
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The only problem I see is that if I buy from a vendor, I expect that I have a warrantee. If buying via an add in IIS circumvents a warrantee then it should not be allowed.
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  #18  
Old 21-10-2011, 03:00 PM
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Ausrock (Chris)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasyoungonce View Post
However, this is not the case with some sellers who only sell and not active members and who buy just to re-sell.

Again not something against the TOS and probably fine if you're a seller but it makes it harder for the regular/average members who are on the lookout for specific items.
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  #19  
Old 21-10-2011, 04:08 PM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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Maybe the TOS needs to be more fluid to keep up with changes. I doubt that situations like this was around when the TOS was written.

I'd expect buyers see vendors as being able to support what they purchase to re-sell whether I'm right or wrong this is what many people expect.

ATM vendors are heaped in with casual sellers.
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  #20  
Old 21-10-2011, 06:09 PM
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It's not an easy issue to deal with, as whichever way you go you're going to get up someone's nose .

Around the audio recording forums I've frequented for +12 yrs, the general "rule" is that if any person is offering for sale items which they've sourced from a "manufacturer" or "manufacturer's agent", or offering modded equipment on a regular basis then they are selling commercially.......no ifs or buts!

The only "exception" is when someone has organised a "group buy" where forum members, in good faith, indicate interest and/or place an order for X number of widgets. Money is transfered to the "organiser" and once the prearranged total widgets needed to deal with the manufacturer is reached, the "group buy" is closed and the order placed. The "organiser" handles all aspects of the "buy" right through to despatching the widgets to the members who are involved and in most cases the "organiser" doesn't make much if any money for his efforts, the idea is to help out forum members NOT make a profit.

"Vendors" who use the forum classifieds to source gear are another story...........twice since joining IIS I have been preparing (convincing the minister of finances that I needed to spend money) to contact a seller for the same specific item, only to find that on both occasions the same member got in first, a little bit of digging around would indicate that it's unlikely he was buying for his own use.
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