Worth Modifying?

[langman78 (Ben)]

Hi all.
I’m currently entertaining the idea of purchasing a Canon 600D/T3i or 700D/T5i and carrying out a Ha mod (LPF-2 removal).
Just some general advise/thoughts on the above 2 camera’s. I know years ago the T3i was probably considered king of the hill for this mod (and other mod’s) for its performance and affordability. Times have obviously changed within this hobby with technology and options to achieve great results. Have I missed the boat and barking up a tree I should have been several to ten years ago?
I currently own a 70d which I’m certainly not interested in modifying so pulling the trigger on the above seems logical but the cost of a mod ($200-250 quote from Camera Clinc) on top of a 2nd hand camera which will probably cost as much or close to the price of a modification. Today does this seem logical or wise?
Couse there are other options like perhaps moding my 70d and saving for 80d, going full spectrum (not interested), moding myself (no thanks). List goes on. But I would prefer to stick with only the Ha modification with a dedicated camera only for AP.
Any input of carrying out a mod on the above or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Ben

[PaulSthcoast (Paul)]

Ben,

There is a modded 700D for sale
in the classifieds now.

https://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/...d.php?t=196329

Paul.

[langman78 (Ben)]

HI Paul.

Thanks for the heads up on this one. Yeah it certainly did catch my attention.
Full Spectrum which isn't really what I want and not quite ready to pull the trigger. Few more wks hopefully, but hey if its still around by then definitely worth considering a lot more.
Thanks again.

[JA]

Originally Posted by langman78

Worth Modifying?

Hi all.
I’m currently entertaining the idea of purchasing a Canon 600D/T3i or 700D/T5i and carrying out a Ha mod (LPF-2 removal).
Just some general advise/thoughts on the above 2 camera’s. I know years ago the T3i was probably considered king of the hill for this mod (and other mod’s) for its performance and affordability. Times have obviously changed within this hobby with technology and options to achieve great results. Have I missed the boat and barking up a tree I should have been several to ten years ago?
I currently own a 70d which I’m certainly not interested in modifying so pulling the trigger on the above seems logical but the cost of a mod ($200-250 quote from Camera Clinc) on top of a 2nd hand camera which will probably cost as much or close to the price of a modification. Today does this seem logical or wise?
Couse there are other options like perhaps moding my 70d and saving for 80d, going full spectrum (not interested), moding myself (no thanks). List goes on. But I would prefer to stick with only the Ha modification with a dedicated camera only for AP.
Any input of carrying out a mod on the above or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Ben

Worth Modifying? - Absolutely not
I would not modify your existing 70d or buy a 600D or 700D for modification.

Why? ........
because you can achieve much better noise performance and similar total Hydrogen Alpha light collection levels for the same FOV, by using an unmodified fullframe camera like the wonderful Canon 6D camera (~$700) or similarly a Nikon D600 or D610 due to their approximatley 2.6 times larger sensor area in comparison with a modified Canon APS sized sensor.

If you are interested I will post a pic of the noise comparison at slightly elevated ISO or you can review these and look at various options on the dpreview website embedded within the review of various cameras.

Best
JA

[langman78 (Ben)]

Interesting JA.
That would be fantastic if you wouldn’t mind.
I did consider full frame some time ago and after a lot of research online I’m surprised I never stumbled upon this. If accurate (and certainly not doubting) a 6D could be the way to go. If achieving relatively similar results say to a modded 600, 700 or even 70d, is it worth or practical to go ahead and mod a 6D if at all?

[JA]

Originally Posted by langman78

Interesting JA.
That would be fantastic if you wouldn’t mind.
I did consider full frame some time ago and after a lot of research online I’m surprised I never stumbled upon this. If accurate (and certainly not doubting) a 6D could be the way to go.

Hi Ben,

Here is a noise comparison in RAW mode at ISO3200 between the Nikon D610, Canon 6D, Canon 700D and Canon 80D. I use ISO3200 as it gives an idea of what the background will look like when stretched a few stops in post processing, even though I would typically only image at ISO 400 to ISO 800 with the Nikon D610 and D750. Look at the quality of the black bottom left side and the detail revealed/hidden by the noise. Fullframe is better, imaging the same FOV. If you're a Canon guy, and want a DSLR at a reasonable price the Canon 6D (~$700) is the best choice, but if you ask me the Nikon is slightly smoother and more detailed by a smidge. It's also better to look at these images online or download the whole ~20-30MB image at dpreview as the screenshot below is compressed. Also note this is a tiny crop from a much larger image.

Originally Posted by langman78

If achieving relatively similar results say to a modded 600, 700 or even 70d, is it worth or practical to go ahead and mod a 6D if at all?

There's no reason you couldn't mod the 6D for even more Hydrogen Alpha response, but I would try it "as is" first. At least then you don't have to contend with overly red biased images, which many people reduce anyway in post processing. It's a choice - certainly the larger sensor will get you more signal and help you see more easily in to the subtleties of the darkness.

Best
JA

[langman78 (Ben)]

Thanks for the comparison JA. Wow such a significant difference.
Been doing a bit of hunting online searching for direct comparisons between a modded 700d or something similar to and a 6d unmodified. Nothing really yet but looks like the 6d could be on the hit list. And being naïve to the 6d’s capabilities even for todays amateurs will probably push me into a future purchase.
Will also be interesting to see if a CLS filter would compliment and bring out a bit more Ha signal.
Rather than creating another thread, I’ve already been looking to get an idea price wise. $500ish on gumtree but rather high shutter counts and highish shutter wear percentage. Never bought a 2nd camera before. Any words of wisdom before doing so? It’s a 10 yr old camera now so to be expected but any pit falls to look out for?

[Bart]

With the cost and availability of CMOS astro cams with good chip sizes, why would you bother? You get a mono chip with cooling, its a no-brainer to me.

[JA]

Originally Posted by Bart

With the cost and availability of CMOS astro cams with good chip sizes, why would you bother? You get a mono chip with cooling, its a no-brainer to me.

Of course an astro-cam can be one way to go; however Ben was talking in the few hundreds of $ for a modified APSc camera with me suggesting a full frame unmodified camera for a little more at possibly $6-700 for a Nikon D600 or Canon 6D having similar Hydrogen Alpha collection potential (for the same FOV) as well as the added benefit of much lower noise.

One could go to much smaller astro-cam sensor sizes, at the possible expense of noise, but to get an astro-cam of similar sensor sizes to what was proposed (APSc or Fullframe) would cost much more: ~$3200 for the APSc Colour (2600mc), ~$2300 for the APSc Colour (071mc), ~$3900 for APSc Mono (2600mm), with full frame sensors double that at ~$6200 for the FF (6200mc or 6200mm). An astro-cam is great, especially with mono cameras and the right filters, at being capable of reducing the effects of light pollution, but there's the attendant need to tether it (or wifi) to a laptop/PC/mini whatever, with filters, filterwheels, etc..as well as the external batteries required. With a DSLR or mirrorless camera, its all in one: battery, intervalomater, exposure control, etc... and that makes for a light and easy pickup-and-go setup which many value for travel and remote location astro, which is not to say that astro-cams are not a good choice, just that they are a choice based on different user preferences and goals.

Best
JA

[langman78 (Ben)]

Couldn’t of said it any better JA.
Bart’s recommendation does have merit but cmos Astro
camera…that’s a completely different beast all together. Even if I had the funds I don’t think such a great idea with my limited experience. I’ve dabbled in the very basic avenues of this hobby off and on for some time now and ideally I’d love to invest more time but with personal commitments it’s just not possible. Sticking with a DSLR set up with eventual purchases of a better mount, glass for now is the best way to go for me personally.

It’s a crying shame the 6d doesn’t come with a flip screen JA. Only just discovered that. I probably assumed it did due to the MK II having. From what I’ve read so far, the MK i seems still to be the better performer for AP.