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Old 11-04-2022, 10:19 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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PHD2 Profiles and ZWO Drivers

Waiting for my new rig to arrive in 2 months , I’ve run into a problem with setting up PHD2 for 3 guide cameras
I will eventually be using 3 rigs
6” f6 newt in Sydney ( guide camera ASI120MM-S )
8” f5 newt south coast Obs ( guide camera ASI120MM-S )
10” f5 CF newt south coast Obs ( guide camera ASI290MM)
ZWO only provide 1 native driver and 2 Ascom drivers , ASI (1) and ASI (2)
I already use ASI (1) for my main 2600MC imaging camera so that leaves me with 1 x native and 1 x Ascom , so I need 1 more driver
It’s not a problem with PHD2 as you can set up as many profiles as you wish It’s ZWO that’s the issue
Unless I buy another laptop and run another PHD2 on that for my new rig, I can’t see any other solution

PS I have downloaded all the latest ZWO camera drivers, however I haven’t downloaded Ascom V6.6 yet but I check the notes in this version and there’s no mention of ZWO upgrades


Comments, ideas , solutions welcome
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Old 11-04-2022, 12:30 PM
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Drac0 (Mark)
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Hi Martin,
A little confused with your issue here. You can use the same driver in multiple profiles so unless you are trying to run all 3 guide cams + your main cam at the same time I can't see a problem? Am I missing something here?

Cheers,
Mark
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Old 11-04-2022, 01:01 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Originally Posted by Drac0 View Post
Hi Martin,
A little confused with your issue here. You can use the same driver in multiple profiles so unless you are trying to run all 3 guide cams + your main cam at the same time I can't see a problem? Am I missing something here?

Cheers,
Mark
Thanks for replying

Your probably right but I’m using different rigs at different locations with different calibration, different dark libraries etc..

Currently I run 2 profiles have done for years , 2 different cameras, one camera uses the ZWO native driver and the other the Ascom 2 driver and each has its own Dark library and calibration.When I added a third camera and used say the Ascom ASI 1 driver , PHD2 conflicted and said you can’t use the same dark library which means it’s picking up the other cameras profile or details, to me I need another dedicated driver for that profile. Ascom ASI (1) driver is used for my imaging camera 2600MC
I checked on Cloudy Nights and a few folk with multiple rigs said the same thing and had the same issue
They posted to ZWO to add a third Ascom driver , say ASI (3) and ZWO replied that they do not intend to add it as there’s not enough demand

Maybe I’m missing something ?

I still think my only work around is to run another laptop with PHD2 for rig no 3

It’s not a PHD2 issue , it’s a ZWO driver allocation issue
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Old 11-04-2022, 02:07 PM
AdamJL
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Sell one of the ZWO guide cameras, buy a QHY guide camera
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Old 11-04-2022, 02:28 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Originally Posted by AdamJL View Post
Sell one of the ZWO guide cameras, buy a QHY guide camera
Thanks Adam
Good cost effective solution
I’m not familiar with QHY , what would be an equivalent to a ZWOASI120MM-S USB3 ( not the mini , it’s the planetary camera 3.75 uM )
Martin
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Old 11-04-2022, 02:30 PM
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It really seems strange to me. I run 3 different guiding setups, same cam with different guiding scopes - a ZWO mini guide scope, an Orion 50mm & an OAG. All run off the same driver with no issues. The only time I had the dark library issue was when I had forgotten to connect my guide cam & PHD2 connected to the imaging cam instead.

It really does confuse me because PHD2 creates a separate dark library for each profile - the driver used doesn't matter, only that the camera/guide scope combination settings are correct. Are you sure the profiles are setup correctly?

I think I might do some testing - can anyone lend me a 3rd guide cam.
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Old 11-04-2022, 03:12 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Originally Posted by Drac0 View Post
It really seems strange to me. I run 3 different guiding setups, same cam with different guiding scopes - a ZWO mini guide scope, an Orion 50mm & an OAG. All run off the same driver with no issues. The only time I had the dark library issue was when I had forgotten to connect my guide cam & PHD2 connected to the imaging cam instead.

It really does confuse me because PHD2 creates a separate dark library for each profile - the driver used doesn't matter, only that the camera/guide scope combination settings are correct. Are you sure the profiles are setup correctly?

I think I might do some testing - can anyone lend me a 3rd guide cam.
I hear what your saying and agree but yes that would be great if you can test with 1 ZWO imaging cam and 3 different ZWO guide cams on the same laptop with 3 different guide camera profiles ( and obviously using one guide cam at a time )
As I said mine has worked fine with 1 ZWO imaging cam and 2 ZWO guide cams but not 3 ZWO guide cams
Just need some clear sky time
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Old 11-04-2022, 03:38 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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I just read your comments again
So your using the same ZWO camera ( 1 driver, either ZWO native or ASI (2) as I’m assuming your using the ASI(1) driver for your main ZWO imaging camera ) for 3 different guide configurations and 3 different profiles. That’s perfectly fine
Obviously that’s not the same as my scenario
I’m want to run three different ZWO guide cameras requiring 3 ZWO drivers plus another driver ASI (1) for my 2600MC imaging camera ( that’s 4 drives ) ZWO have only allocated 3 drivers for their cameras ZWO Native , ASI (1) and ASI (2)
What ZWO drivers are you using for your ZWO Imaging camera and ZWO
guide camera ?
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Old 11-04-2022, 04:21 PM
AdamJL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Thanks Adam
Good cost effective solution
I’m not familiar with QHY , what would be an equivalent to a ZWOASI120MM-S USB3 ( not the mini , it’s the planetary camera 3.75 uM )
Martin
Hi Martin

This one would be equivalent to the ASI120, different sensor though, but same product category.

https://www.testar.com.au/collection...r-with-usb-2-0

Note the comment in the review above about drivers. Easy to install, just make sure you download the right one from QHY.

Or you could step up and get this one which is the same sensor as the 290MM (I use the 290MM and it's a very sensitive little camera!)

https://www.testar.com.au/collection...90m-monochrome
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Old 11-04-2022, 05:14 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJL View Post
Hi Martin

This one would be equivalent to the ASI120, different sensor though, but same product category.

https://www.testar.com.au/collection...r-with-usb-2-0

Note the comment in the review above about drivers. Easy to install, just make sure you download the right one from QHY.

Or you could step up and get this one which is the same sensor as the 290MM (I use the 290MM and it's a very sensitive little camera!)

https://www.testar.com.au/collection...90m-monochrome
Thanks Adam 👍
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2022, 11:48 PM
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Sorry Martin, I think you are a little confused about how the drivers work and the number of drivers you actually need/have available. This may get a little long winded, I apologise in advance!

Doing it the way you are now, trying for a different driver for each separate camera (it is confusing, complicated & unnecessary), you actually have FOUR drivers available. You have the 2 ASCOM ASI drivers in the selection list, but the single ZWO listed actually provides 2 instances of the driver. I connect both my imaging & guide cams with just the ZWO driver, I don't use the ASCOM ASI drivers at all. All I do is when I change profiles I double check that the correct camera is selected as shown in the attached image. As long as the correct profile & camera are selected there are no issues. (I stopped using the ASCOM drivers a while back as my guide cam kept dropping out, haven't had the issue since I switched to the ZWO driver.)

Additionally, APT uses the native Windows driver for your imaging camera, it doesn't require an ASCOM driver at all. So you could always remove your imaging camera from the ASCOM driver & use that for your extra guide camera. But if you install the ZWO ASCOM drivers the imaging camera will automatically connect & show up as a compatible camera choice in PHD2, under the ZWO driver. So if you connect a ZWO imaging & guide camera, both will be listed under the ZWO driver like in the image.

And I think that is where at least part (all?) your issue is coming from. I believe at times PHD2 may have your imaging camera selected to use as the guide camera - of course the dark library won't match! Might be worth checking.

Now a quick note on the drivers themselves. They aren't linked to any particular camera. They just connect to the next compatible camera you plug in. With the ZWO drivers, which camera gets which driver (1 or 2) depends mainly on which USB port they get connected to - I can change which camera gets which driver simply by switching where they are connected.

My suggestion/s?
If you want to keep using the ASCOM ASI drivers, change your imaging camera to a guide camera instead - the imaging camera will automatically connect to the spare ZWO driver anyway. When using the 3rd guide camera on the ZWO driver, just be sure to check that the guide camera is selected when connecting, not the imaging camera.

My preferred way is to just use the ZWO driver and forget the ASI ASCOM drivers totally. Simply setup profiles for each camera/guide scope/mount combination you use (I have 6, 2 cameras for each guide scope/OAG). Then when connecting just check that the imaging cam isn't selected as the guide cam. As the dark frames are stored separately in each profile, as long as the profile & camera match there shouldn't be an issue. I find it easy this way.

Hope that is of some help.

Cheers,
Mark
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Old 12-04-2022, 06:50 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drac0 View Post
Sorry Martin, I think you are a little confused about how the drivers work and the number of drivers you actually need/have available. This may get a little long winded, I apologise in advance!

Doing it the way you are now, trying for a different driver for each separate camera (it is confusing, complicated & unnecessary), you actually have FOUR drivers available. You have the 2 ASCOM ASI drivers in the selection list, but the single ZWO listed actually provides 2 instances of the driver. I connect both my imaging & guide cams with just the ZWO driver, I don't use the ASCOM ASI drivers at all. All I do is when I change profiles I double check that the correct camera is selected as shown in the attached image. As long as the correct profile & camera are selected there are no issues. (I stopped using the ASCOM drivers a while back as my guide cam kept dropping out, haven't had the issue since I switched to the ZWO driver.)

Additionally, APT uses the native Windows driver for your imaging camera, it doesn't require an ASCOM driver at all. So you could always remove your imaging camera from the ASCOM driver & use that for your extra guide camera. But if you install the ZWO ASCOM drivers the imaging camera will automatically connect & show up as a compatible camera choice in PHD2, under the ZWO driver. So if you connect a ZWO imaging & guide camera, both will be listed under the ZWO driver like in the image.

And I think that is where at least part (all?) your issue is coming from. I believe at times PHD2 may have your imaging camera selected to use as the guide camera - of course the dark library won't match! Might be worth checking.

Now a quick note on the drivers themselves. They aren't linked to any particular camera. They just connect to the next compatible camera you plug in. With the ZWO drivers, which camera gets which driver (1 or 2) depends mainly on which USB port they get connected to - I can change which camera gets which driver simply by switching where they are connected.

My suggestion/s?
If you want to keep using the ASCOM ASI drivers, change your imaging camera to a guide camera instead - the imaging camera will automatically connect to the spare ZWO driver anyway. When using the 3rd guide camera on the ZWO driver, just be sure to check that the guide camera is selected when connecting, not the imaging camera.

My preferred way is to just use the ZWO driver and forget the ASI ASCOM drivers totally. Simply setup profiles for each camera/guide scope/mount combination you use (I have 6, 2 cameras for each guide scope/OAG). Then when connecting just check that the imaging cam isn't selected as the guide cam. As the dark frames are stored separately in each profile, as long as the profile & camera match there shouldn't be an issue. I find it easy this way.

Hope that is of some help.

Cheers,
Mark
Thanks Mark
I’m reading to many posts on CN
I think I will start from scratch , delete all my profiles and start again
One camera at at a time when I use each rig, name profile , enter settings , set dark library, set BPM and calibration etc...
And yes I will use the ZWO native driver for all guide cameras but I still like using the Ascom for main imaging camera
It’s been 4 years since I’ve touched anything
Thanks again
This should be a sticky as CN is riddled with posts about folk who have issues with PHD2 using 3 and 4 cameras !!
Cheers
Martin
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Old 12-04-2022, 09:32 PM
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Good luck Martin.

Most of the confusion probably comes from the original ASCOM drivers. Using them, as you know, you must set a specific driver to a specific camera, for example your imaging camera to ASCOM (1) and guide to ASCOM (2). Then if you change one of the cameras you also need to change it in the ASCOM setup as well, or find another driver.

The ZWO drivers simply does away with that need by allocating the drivers to whichever ZWO cameras are connected so no need to be changing anything. Make sure the right profile & camera are selected & away you go. Note that even if you leave the imaging camera on the ASCOM driver, it will also be detected by the ZWO driver, which is why you need to check the right camera is selected in PHD2.

Hope it goes well, and if you have any problems while down at South Coast Obs let me know, it's only 30 minutes from here.

Cheers,
Mark
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Old 13-04-2022, 06:36 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drac0 View Post
Good luck Martin.

Most of the confusion probably comes from the original ASCOM drivers. Using them, as you know, you must set a specific driver to a specific camera, for example your imaging camera to ASCOM (1) and guide to ASCOM (2). Then if you change one of the cameras you also need to change it in the ASCOM setup as well, or find another driver.

The ZWO drivers simply does away with that need by allocating the drivers to whichever ZWO cameras are connected so no need to be changing anything. Make sure the right profile & camera are selected & away you go. Note that even if you leave the imaging camera on the ASCOM driver, it will also be detected by the ZWO driver, which is why you need to check the right camera is selected in PHD2.

Hope it goes well, and if you have any problems while down at South Coast Obs let me know, it's only 30 minutes from here.

Cheers,
Mark
Thanks Mark,
I’ve had PHD2 set up with Ascom driver for my main ZWO imaging cam and 2 x ZWO guide cameras on the native driver for at least 4 years ,no issues. And yes I had to select the correct camera every session using the little arrow box button.I image from Sydney and Southcoast on two different rigs ,have done this for nearly 4 years ( had my NexDome near Ulladulla for nearly a year now, time flys )
Where I went wrong in setting up for 3 guide cameras , I changed the profile name of one camera and then went down hill from there, got the dreaded dark library warning !!!
After reading CN posts , posts on the PHD2 open forum and of courcse finally your guidance and information,I’m back on track
I prefer to keep my main imaging camera connected through Ascom as APT tends to behave itself and run better that way , I had issues using the native driver in APT.
So I’ll keep the main camera running on Ascom as is and the 3 guide cameras will use the native driver or ZWO ASI Camera in the drop down

Thanks again and hope we get some more consistent clear skies on the south coast. Unfortunate my place has some minor water damage during the last big storm , so lodged an insurance claim ( 3 to 4 week wait for assessor ) I’ll be spending more time there to try and seal off where it got in in three locations ( probably through the valleys )
Oh well gives me more time to run the Dome if it’s clear !!!

Martin
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Old 13-04-2022, 09:17 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Mark,
There’s one thing I had to do to use Ascom as my imaging camera and ZWO native for one or more guide cameras

I had to ensure when setting up the Profile for the ZWO native guide camera that the Main Imaging camera was physically disconnected

Once Guide Camera Profile was established and completed with its Dark library I had to close PHD2 , Connect my main imaging camera via Ascom ( confirm its connected to Ascom Camera (1) ) Then open PHD2 again , select my new Profile and then select the correct camera via the little green black arrow button. Press Connect and the new Guide camera connects fine via it’s ZWO native driver

If I don’t do the above configuration in that order , when I try to set up a new Profile for guide camera , the camera settings are defaulted to the main imaging cameras settings with wrong pixel size etc .. and you can’t change it.

Even just disconnecting via APT won’t allow the correct establishment of new profiles using the Native ZWO driver, you have to physically disconnect the USB camera cable.
Note: I’m using a Startech USB3 4 port powered hub on my rig to connected my main camera , guide camera ( and future mono gear ) with short USB3 cables and then a 5m main USB3 cable back to the laptop.
Also you have to use the same Laptop USB port each time as well as your aware

Sorry for the mouth full description

Cheers
Martin
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Old 13-04-2022, 10:35 AM
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Strange indeed Martin, never had those issues. But I never tried using the ASCOM & ZWO drivers together, I just switched totally. Perhaps there is some conflict between the different drivers trying to take control of the cameras. I use a very similar connection setup as you, except it's a 7 port Startech 12v hub.


Cheers,
Mark
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Old 13-04-2022, 03:31 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Strange indeed Martin, never had those issues. But I never tried using the ASCOM & ZWO drivers together, I just switched totally. Perhaps there is some conflict between the different drivers trying to take control of the cameras. I use a very similar connection setup as you, except it's a 7 port Startech 12v hub.


Cheers,
Mark
I’m assuming both Ascom and Native ZWO drivers appear in the Camera selection because they are both provided by ZWO. The Ascom driver definitely provides more user interface and controls
Also I don’t launch PHD2 from my Capture software APT. I open PHD2 autonomously and then open APT
In my case the only interface between PHD2 and APT is the dither function ( most folk launch everything from their capture software )
Anyway glad to have the issue resolved
I’ve already written myself a procedure so I won’t forget for next time

Cheers
Martin
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