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Old 06-06-2021, 02:03 PM
gary
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Smile Should anyone ever fancy imaging ESO 216-2 in Centaurus ...

Should anyone ever image Planetary Nebula ESO 216-2 in Centaurus,
I would be curious to know how the brighter bar that can be seen in its
ring in the DSS image appears under better resolution.

SIMBAD coordinates and DSS image here :-
http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/si...dent=ESO+216-2
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2021, 12:42 AM
Dennis
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Hi Gary

I gave this a go tonight from Brisbane, whilst trying out my new toys, a WO 50mm F4 Guider/ASI290MM combo on the Tak Mewlon 210 F11.5 with x0.8 RF, to give me a focal length of 1932mm.

ASI 1600 MM Pro, L:R:G:B, 60:15:15:15 minutes. It sure is a faint PN and I didn't manage to harvest much detail from my back yard with the Brisbane light pollution.

But at least I managed to (mostly) guide a 1932mm fl 'scope with a 200mm fl guide scope.

Cheers

Dennis

Added versions processed in PI (originals processed in CCDStack). Bit rusty, need more practice.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (ESO 216_02 LRGB Crop 1280.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (ESO-216_02-LRGB-Crop-1280-FF.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (ESO-216_02-LRGB-PI-Crop-1280.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (ESO 216_02 LRGB PI Crop 1280 FF.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (LUM_DBE_DeConv-Crop-1280.jpg)
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Last edited by Dennis; 07-06-2021 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 07-06-2021, 07:20 AM
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The_bluester (Paul)
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If I ever get some more clear sky I might have a go with the 10"F4.
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Old 07-06-2021, 01:08 PM
gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Hi Gary

I gave this a go tonight from Brisbane, whilst trying out my new toys, a WO 50mm F4 Guider/ASI290MM combo on the Tak Mewlon 210 F11.5 with x0.8 RF, to give me a focal length of 1932mm.

ASI 1600 MM Pro, L:R:G:B, 60:15:15:15 minutes. It sure is a faint PN and I didn't manage to harvest much detail from my back yard with the Brisbane light pollution.

But at least I managed to (mostly) guide a 1932mm fl 'scope with a 200mm fl guide scope.

Cheers

Dennis

Added versions processed in PI (originals processed in CCDStack). Bit rusty, need more practice.
Thank you Dennis!

That is wonderful.

Look how blue that core is. Rich in OIII.

Similar in appearance to M27, The Dumbbell, like this image here :-
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap191203.html

Similar bright core and bright arc on parts of its ring.

That was so quick! I thought maybe someone, some day might be curious
to and like to have a go but that was like Astronomy on demand.
Thank you! I really appreciate it

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_bluester
If I ever get some more clear sky I might have a go with the 10"F4.
Thanks Paul! Apart from the DSS image, Dennis's is now the only other
images I have seen of it on the net.
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2021, 04:55 PM
Dennis
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Thanks Gary, stumbling across your post was a serendipitous event, as I was looking for some celestial target to test out my new configuration with the WO 50mm Guide scope and ASI290MM Guider.

It is a dim, tiny object indeed.

Some data from SkyTools Imaging V4:
  • Planetary Nebula
  • PN G288.7+08.1
  • aka ESO 216-2, ESO 216-02
  • R.A. 11h18m09.7s Dec. -52°10'02" (2000) in Centaurus
  • Galactic lon: +288°44', Galactic lat: +08°07'
  • Magnitude: 15.50
  • Size: 36"
  • Mean Surface Br. 23.0 Mag/arcsec²

Cheers

Dennis
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2021, 10:40 AM
Dennis
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Hi Gary

I wonder if your request may have led to the "discovery" of a previously "mis-identified" DSO that looks like a faint Galaxy?

On the original images I took on 6th June 2021, I noticed a fuzzy object in the field that did not look like the other field stars. So I went out last night and took another set of images and the "fuzzy" object is still there.

On these images I took of PN ESO 216-2, the field star GSC 08225-985 is recorded more like a faint fuzzy DSO rather than having a stellar profile like the other field stars. I was actually taking images of Planetary Nebula PN G288.7+08.1 (ESO 216-2) at R.A. 11h18m09.7s Dec. -52°10'02" (2000) in Centaurus, Magnitude: 15.50, Size: 36" when I noticed that the field star (GSC 08225-985) looked distinctly fuzzy and unlike the other nicely resolved field stars. It appears more like the faint PGC Galaxies I often see in my images.

The “fuzzy” field star is identified as:

SkyTools 4 Imaging Data:
J111827.8-520821
R.A. 11h18m27.9s Dec. -52°08'21" (2000)
Centaurus
Magnitude: 13.22

The Sky X Pro Data:
Object Name: GSC 8225:985
RA (2000.0): 11h 18m 27.8s
Dec (2000.0): -52° 08' 21"
Magnitude: 14.14

I have checked the "Sesame Name Resolver" on-line Query and it returned:
J111827.8-520821 11:18:27.8 -52:08:21

I also checked "Aladin Lite" and on that image the object appears in the Gaia EDR3 and 2MASS databases.

I have attached 5 files showing this “fuzzy” object, from the basic Raw File to Files with Labels and IDs from the SkyTools 4 Imaging Application.

I took a similar series of images on 6th June with a different camera (ZWO ASI 1600 MM Pro) and with the telescope tube rotated in a different position (approx. 45 degrees) and the same “fuzzy” object appears in that image too, so it is unlikely to be camera related or some reflection artefact?

The imaging system is:
Takahashi Mewlon 210 F11.5 (210mm aperture)
Takahashi x0.8 Reducer
F9.4 at 1932mm focal length
ZWO AIS 294 MM Pro Cooled Camera
106 x 30 sec exposures

Cheers

Dennis Simmons
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (PN ESO 216-2 Raw Image Only.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (PN ESO 216-2 Raw Image Graphics.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (PN ESO 216-2 Raw Image Graphics Text.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (PN ESO 216-2 Raw Image Graphics ST4 Stars.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (PN ESO 216-2 Raw Image Graphics ST4 Stars ID Mag.jpg)
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2021, 10:57 PM
gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Hi Gary

I wonder if your request may have led to the "discovery" of a previously "mis-identified" DSO that looks like a faint Galaxy?
Thanks Dennis!

Neato!

Looking at Aladin, using MAMA srcj, which was apparently derived from scanning plates at the Paris Observatory, including plates from Siding Spring,
one gets the image attached. Color circles using your scheme and oriented the same way.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (field.jpg)
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Last edited by gary; 11-06-2021 at 11:26 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2021, 11:38 PM
gary
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Hi Dennis,

Blinking the MAMA image with the DSS image.

Your object at pink crosshairs toward center.
Significant difference in brightness between the two images compared to similar sized stars
but may simply be difference in wavelengths for the different plates.

ESO 216-2 at lower right.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (5cwz9x.gif)
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2021, 08:59 AM
Dennis
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Thanks for the research Gary.

I did download the DSS Plate view in Sky Tools 4 Imaging and the Red plate showed a fuzzy blob (lower red circle in image)

I might just keep poking around as I have been astonished by what on-line investigation tools I have access to from my PC.

Cheers

Dennis
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (LUM_DBE Crop 1280 DSS RED.jpg)
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Last edited by Dennis; 12-06-2021 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Added DSS image
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2021, 12:22 PM
Dennis
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Hi Gary

Here are crops from the LRGB frames taken with the ASI 1600 MM Pro on 6th June 2021, and it looks like the "star" has been recorded as a diffuse or extended object in all 4 frames.

Cheers

Dennis
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (LRGB-Overlays-Each-Layer-Crop-1024-LUM.jpg)
190.8 KB23 views
Click for full-size image (LRGB-Overlays-Each-Layer-Crop-1024-RED.jpg)
195.4 KB15 views
Click for full-size image (LRGB Overlays Each Layer Crop 1024 GREEN.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (LRGB Overlays Each Layer Crop 1024 BLUE.jpg)
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2021, 10:33 PM
gary
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Hi Dennis,

Great stuff. A Gaia search provides an identifier as 5348442341873671040.
(Screenshot attached).

When you copy those coordinates back into Aladin, it positions it at the
cross hairs in the second attached image which is using the MAMA srcj plate
scan

I have rotated that image 180 degrees so south is up, like yours.

Though it is not quite centered, Aladin does provide warnings in its
documentation that the accuracy of its own astrometry is a function of the
plate calibration.

Notice both in your images and the Aladin MAMA srcj image that there is
that bump at 11 o'clock? Right when the Gaia position places the cross
hairs.

Is it two stars? Or is it possibly another planetary nebula?
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (Gaia Archive - Google Chrome_2021-06-12_22-13-22.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (view3.jpg)
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  #12  
Old 13-06-2021, 12:39 AM
Dennis
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Hi Gary

Thanks for your research, your resources are richer than mine.

I managed to get out again tonight and take another LRGB set of 120:60:60:60 Frames at 30 secs each and I have just punched them through PixInsight.

My post processing skills are still a little basic so I'm not getting the best out of the data. Also, as I set up and tear down each night, I've been a little sloppy in camera field orientation, so I have just ringed the PN in Red and the faint fuzzy in Yellow just to identify them.

I can just make out 2 point-like concentrations in the fuzzy blob in the Raw PSD File, so I hope they make their way into the JPG.

Bed time for me now.

Cheers

Dennis
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (PN LRGB FR Crop 1280.jpg)
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  #13  
Old 13-06-2021, 01:17 AM
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Steffen
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From looking at the catalogs rather than the sky (not equipped to view mag 15 objects, I’m afraid) it appears that there are two objects at that location – planetary nebula PK 288+08.1 and spiral galaxy PGC 34540, both around mag 15. Not sure whether they are actually two different objects or one that has been classified variously.
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  #14  
Old 13-06-2021, 08:22 AM
Dennis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffen View Post
From looking at the catalogs rather than the sky (not equipped to view mag 15 objects, I’m afraid) it appears that there are two objects at that location – planetary nebula PK 288+08.1 and spiral galaxy PGC 34540, both around mag 15. Not sure whether they are actually two different objects or one that has been classified variously.
Hi Steffen

Thanks for taking a look and reporting back on what you have discovered.

I have attached a wider field view that shows the PLN 288+ 8.1 and a nearby Galaxy PGC 445548 as well as the "mystery" object.

The Galaxy is listed at mag 17.25 in The Sky X Pro.

The Sky X Pro shows PGC 34540 almost right on top of PLN 288+ 8.1

Cheers

Dennis
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (The Sky X Pro PN and PGC FS Crop 1280.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (PN PGC LRGB Crop 1280.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (PN PGC LRGB ST4 Data Crop 1280.jpg)
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Last edited by Dennis; 13-06-2021 at 09:06 AM.
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  #15  
Old 13-06-2021, 12:10 PM
gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffen View Post
From looking at the catalogs rather than the sky (not equipped to view mag 15 objects, I’m afraid) it appears that there are two objects at that location – planetary nebula PK 288+08.1 and spiral galaxy PGC 34540, both around mag 15. Not sure whether they are actually two different objects or one that has been classified variously.
Hi Steffen,

Thanks for looking but Dennis and I took the thread on a serendipitous
segue to a different object some 194 arcseconds away that had caught
Dennis's eye.

The story so far :-

ESO 2-216 (11:18 09.77 -52 10 02.7 ICRS)

However, just to go back to the original object in the title of thread,
ESO 2-216 had originally been classified as a galaxy in the ESO galaxy
survey. This then got swept up by the PGC catalog and given a PGC
reference number of PGC 34540. However, this is incorrect and there is
no galaxy there.

ESO 2-216 also appears in PK with an identifier PK 288+08.1
That is correct and indeed ESO 2-216 is a planetary nebula.

In the images, one can discern ESO 2-216's shell as a ring, and the bright
blue bar on its north side appears reminiscent of those on M27.
This arc was probably what confused the ESO survey in thinking it was
a galaxy.

My reaching out originally was in the hope that someone might fancy
imaging Planetary Nebula ESO 2-216 to get a better view of its ring
and that bar. Dennis happened to be testing some gear and grabbed
some shots.

So there is only one object there, not two.

One has to always be careful with the PGC and PK catalogs.
I tend to think of them as the Magritte of catalogs - "This is not a catalog".
Actually, that is not entirely fair. However, both catalogs are
primarily compilations of other primary source survey catalogs.
So if you or I are doing a survey of galaxies and we publish the
"Steffen-Gary Catalogue of Impossibly Dim Galaxies", whenever they
compile PGC they are likely to include not only all the great new stuff
we found but all our screw-ups too. Likewise, PK is a compilation
of other planetary nebula surveys.

Dennis's Serendipitous Object (11:18:27.83873 -52:08:21.3072 ICRS)

Whilst imaging ESO 2-216, Dennis's eye was caught by an object some
194 arcseconds away which he thought appeared "fuzzy" in a way not matching
his usual profile of what looks like a star.

This thread has been mulling over that object since.

We know it has a Gaia star survey designation and we know from
database searches there are no DSO objects at or near this
location. It appears to have a little 'bump' in it which is not a diffraction
spike. Might be two stars overlapping or perhaps a DSO such as another
PN with a shell. Gaia lists it as 20th magnitude in whatever color filter
it uses.
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  #16  
Old 13-06-2021, 12:30 PM
gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Hi Gary

Thanks for your research, your resources are richer than mine.

I managed to get out again tonight and take another LRGB set of 120:60:60:60 Frames at 30 secs each and I have just punched them through PixInsight.

My post processing skills are still a little basic so I'm not getting the best out of the data. Also, as I set up and tear down each night, I've been a little sloppy in camera field orientation, so I have just ringed the PN in Red and the faint fuzzy in Yellow just to identify them.

I can just make out 2 point-like concentrations in the fuzzy blob in the Raw PSD File, so I hope they make their way into the JPG.

Bed time for me now.

Cheers

Dennis
Hi Dennis,

Wow. Nice image. Your object certainly does look fuzzy.

I looked in the Macquarie/AAO/Strasbourg Hα Planetary Galactic
Catalog (MASH) which was the survey conducted by Quentin Parker &
David Frew et. al. a few years back and didn't get a hit, but I will
take a look again. They picked up a bucket-load of new PN and
"possible" PN over a seven year program at the beginning of this century.
I went to an interesting talk Quentin Parker gave at the time, probably at a
ASNSW meeting.

But even MASH had initially missed the one Andrew Murrell picked up
and after Andrew's finding it, David Frew did a Hα observation of it and
it got catalogued as "mu 1" :- http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/si...bmit=submit+id

So anything is possible.
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  #17  
Old 13-06-2021, 01:38 PM
Dennis
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Hi Gary

Thank you for your research using all these quite amazing catalogues and databases, my head is still spinning from the content of these on-line resources.

I have just up-sampled the "fuzzy" region so although there is no new data, it does provide a representation at a larger scale.

I have also learned that it is important to pay attention to equipment orientation and "the right way up", so I have some homework to do so that viewers don't have to go through any mental gymnastics to orient my random images.

Cheers

Dennis

PS - And yes, I did have to Google René François Ghislain Magritte.
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Old 13-06-2021, 06:08 PM
gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Hi Gary

I have just up-sampled the "fuzzy" region so although there is no new data, it does provide a representation at a larger scale.
Hi Dennis,

I like this up-sampled image. Looks like a tiny star in the periphery of the
fuzz around 2 o'clock.

But it takes little averted imagination to perceive that the main object is
fuzzy.

You might have something there.

I'd love to see what it looks like with longer integration time.

Cool if it transpired to be a DSO such as a PN.
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Click for full-size image (MagrittePipe .jpg)
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  #19  
Old 13-06-2021, 11:50 PM
Dennis
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Hi Gary

I fitted a Tak x1.6 Extender to the Mewlon 210 to give me F/18.4 at 3864 mm focal length and managed to rattle off 360 x 15 sec exposures tonight (13th June) before wispy clouds moved in.

The attached image is a full res crop of the region of interest.

The seeing was pretty bad so no further detail was really revealed.

Cheers

Dennis
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (LUM PN DBE CCDS FR Crop 1280.jpg)
166.5 KB24 views
Click for full-size image (LUM PN DBE CCDS FR Crop 1280 Inverted.jpg)
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Last edited by Dennis; 14-06-2021 at 09:47 AM.
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  #20  
Old 20-06-2021, 10:07 AM
Dennis
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I came across a forgotten Lumicon UHC Filter that I had in a box of astro spares acquired at the Qld Astrofest back in the 1990's and managed to grab a series of 15 x 300 sec images of the PN and "mystery" object.

I combined the UHC frames with the 120 x 30 sec LUM Frames from 12th June and the PN and "mystery" object are better seen.

I also downloaded the DSS 2nd Generation RED and BLUE plates to compare them against my Mewlon 210 Plate.

Does anyone know of a formal organisation that I can report this "mystery" object to, in order to better establish its nature?

Cheers

Dennis
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (LUM-and-UHC-integration_DBE-PN-Mask-Crop-1280x1280-BG.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (LUM-and-UHC-integration_DBE-PN-Mask-Crop-1280x1280-Text.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (DSS Images LUM UHC Crop 800 Dennis.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (DSS Images LUM UHC Crop 800 DSS Red.jpg)
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Click for full-size image (DSS Images LUM UHC Crop 800 DSS Blue.jpg)
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