Hi all,
I'm a beginner that's getting ready to buy my first scope this week and would like to know what would be a good first scope. I have a budget of around $350 -$400.
I have been looking at a few different options and really have no idea what is better.
The scopes I am looking at are:
Celestron AstroMaster 130EQ
Celestron AstroMaster 90AZ
If anyone could give me any advice it would be greatly appreciated!
I'm sure others will swing by with some more direct advice but I'll throw my 2c in here, as I just recently went through a similar decision making process myself.
I looked long and hard at the 130EQ at one of this site's sponsors as it seemed like a lot of scope and mount for not much money. I read a fewreviewson it and decided that the mount may be too much of a buzzkill for me.
I then had the opportunity to play with an 8" Dobsonian and was instantly sold on having one of those instead, and that is what I purchased. And it's fantastic, the best toy I've bought in years and years. Easy to move in and out of the house, a finder scope that uncovers a stack of detail in the sky just on its own, a focuser that I don't fight with (I wear glasses) and a mount that doesn't budge if your dog runs into it!
As I understand it they're all pretty similar mechanically (made out of similar base/mount materials - particle board or MDF) and many (most?) use Synta for their optical components.
These two scopes have 'in my opinion' very different advantages and dissadvantages, therefore, straight up - Id go with the 130 : )
Main reason being, it comes with a far better mount, a lot sturdier, fine adjustment cables in both RA & Dec, & you can actually obtain a 'Polar Allignment' allowing you to adjust the RA to follow the target in the eyepiece
Also the 130 has more aperture and is quite a fast system, F/5, allowing bright & contrasty views, great for nebs & even galaxies, even better in good dark skies, the 20mm eyepiece is better for this, picking up faint fuzzies : )
The 10mm is better suited for moon and planets, even bright star clusters can be tested !
The 90mm is a slower system, F/11, good for planets, moon, not so good for galaxies & nebulae, besides I dont think that mount would justify the purchase quite frankly
Cheers & Hope this helps, pretty obvious to me
PS; Edit: Yes there is the foregone conclusion that an 8" dob would out-do both fore-mentioned scopes by far ! !
If you're to choose between a Celestron AstroMaster 130EQ, or a 90AZ, I would go for the 130EQ for more aperture! This represents a 40% increase in aperture, and a doubling in light-gathering.
However, I had a 130EQ some years ago and my opinion of it is that you can do much better for the money.
You would be better off with a 6" or 8" Dobsonian. They are much easier to use and have greater aperture. A 6" is a 15% larger aperture, or ~33% more light-gathering. An 8" is a 53% increase in aperture, or ~ 2.3 times the light-gathering.
As a beginner, you will probably tear your hair out using an EQ mount for casual viewing. They can be very annoying when they get into certain positions, because the eyepiece is in bad position for viewing. A tracking EQ mount will be necessary, however, if you wish to do longish exposures for astrophotography.
Before you buy anything, you should contact a local astro group and go to a viewing night to try before you buy!
You can get smaller ones that sit on a table, from 76mm to say 130mm, OR you can get a proper 8" one for about $499 from places like Andrews Communications. When I say "proper" I mean the ones that sit on the ground and look like a cannon! Check the banner ads on the right here >>>>>> and you will probably see one. They are the BEST bang for your beginner buck.
Guan Sheng GS-680 8"
200mm x 1200mm
$499 AUD
In stock!
these are the BEST place to start with that budget.
Guan Sheng or the Bintel 8" dobsonians (they are identical) are a great starter scope and you will see MUCH MUCH more than a 130mm scope and will probably keep that scope for a LONG time.
There is nothing to it. Take it outside, slip in an eyepiece and point it at stuff (excluding collimation which will take about 5 mins). You can even use a webcam for some quick video pictures of the planets.
You will be able to see Saturn's rings clearly (depending on the turbulence or "seeing" of the atmosphere) as well as the bands on Jupiter, their moons, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Uranus and Neptune as disks in the eyepiece.
Cheers
Chris
Last edited by Screwdriverone; 27-02-2013 at 09:35 AM.
Otherwise, you will have to nudge it by hand, especially with the $499 ones as they don't have any motors or controllers that allow you to find objects, you will be star hopping to find things, by using charts and bright stars to find the area you want, then zeroing in with the finder-scope and finally finding the object in a large field of view eyepiece first before switching to a smaller and higher magnification eyepiece later.
So, you could save a bit longer and splash out on a goto version for about $900 more...a bit of a hike, but much better to find things, although astropics would be limited due to the field rotation that would occur....
One reason 8" dobs are suggested as the weapon of choice for beginners is that they are so easy to use straight away, it allows you to get into telescope viewing for relatively not much money and see MUCH MUCH more than the smaller and more complicated Celestrons reflectors and refractors etc. Plus, 8 inches or 200mm will get MUCH more light in than these smaller scopes in the suburbs where light pollution ruins a LOT of objects.
You can get tabletop 6" Orion Intelliscope Dobsonians that sit on a table and have a computer which TELLS you where to point to an object, so you could research these too. They also re-sell quite well if you decide this caper is not for you or you get infected by aperture/technology/astrophotography fever and want to upgrade to the bees knees later.
I bought a 5" EQ2 mounted reflector first for $550 bucks (still have it but dont use it anymore), then bought a 12" collapsible tube dobsonian with no goto or tracking ($1499 and sold that) and now have an 8" reflector on an HEQ5 Pro which I can use for visual AND Astrophotography ($1399-$1599 now) PLUS about $2500 for guidescope, guidecamera, CCD camera and accessories to help me get better photos. So as you can see, there is a VERY slippery slope which is easy to fall down if you aren't careful. My pics arent going to win any awards, but I am happy with the progress after about 2 years of doing this Astrophotography caper.......
Check out my thread here for all the little bits and pieces I recommend to get a beginner started and you can just substitute the $499 scope for the one I have in the thread. Also, the prices will be out of date, but are a good guide as a starting point to understand how much it will actually cost to get started and enjoy things from day one without too many issues. Remember, its a guide, not gospel
Also think about joining the ASV (www.asv.org.au) they have loan telescopes for $60 and $50 of that is refundable when the telescope is returned at the end of the loan.
Seriously drop the idea of these small aperture scopes. You won't look back when you look through a 6 or 8-inch Dobsonian.
Okay, so I've learned that the Dobsonian will be better for viewing, but can you track objects with them?
It depends on what you want to look at, or track. Do you wish to view/track Solar System objects (Moon, planets, etc), or deep space objects (DSOs - star clusters, nebulae, galaxies, etc)?
If you want to get videos of the planets, then stack the frames to produce an image - then you can place a video/CCD camera on a Dob and track manually. This is not ideal, but can produce some decent images.
As for DSOs, some form of auto tracking is required for long exposures, but you can do a series of short exposures and track manually with a Dob between exposures, to retain the same field of view. Then you stack these short exposures. Challenging, but possible.
With your limited budget, I wouldn't be getting too fixated on tracking. Good quality tracking mounts are not cheap. The tracking mount on a 130EQ is cheap and will require a reasonable amount of correction to track accurately.
You can get tracking Dobs, but they come at a price well outside your budget.
You haven't actually said what you need the tracking for. Are you wanting to do astrophotography, or just visual observing?
Don't be too concerned with needing to track. It isn't critical, only convenient.
Scope that don't track you would allow the object you are viewing to drift across the field of view, and every now and then just nudge the scope a little to reacquire it.
If you feel that the drift period is too short, there are eyepieces with very wide fields of view that allow the drift period to be longer.
Best example I can give is my own. I have 6 scopes. Only one has a clock drive, my 30 year old Celestron C8, which is an 8" instrument. All my other scopes, 2" refractor, 80mm refractor, an 8" dob, 10" dob and 17.5" dob, are all push-pull. I only use my C8's tracking capability when I'm doing a sketch of the Moon or planets. If it is just visual inspection I'm doing the C8 stays in its case as my dobs take 1min to set up while the C8 some 15min and a whole lot of fussing to align the mount properly.
The dobsonian to a person who's unfamiliar with scope sounds like a very strange creature. All it is is a Newtonian scope mounted on a simple "gun turret" style of mount. They are extremely easy to use. They go in size from a table top 3" all the way up to 40" (1 metre) monsters that need a tall ladder to use. What they all offer is the biggest aperture for your $, and relative ease of use. The larger the scope, the fainter and more detail you'll see.
But, before you do your cash, I strongly suggest you go to an astro club meet or other star party an see the range of instruments available. You'll be able to see just how easy/complex they are to set up, use, and cost, and the many different accessories to further empty your pockets. This is the best way to make the best decision for yourself. I can suggest the 130EQ, but you may find the mount one tedious bit of gear and the scope ends up in the garage. You may find that the 90mm just doesn't reveal all the faint stuff that you want to see, and again you lose interest. A scope can be a very personal choice. I'd rather see you make the best choice for yourself than just do as I say. Who knows, the 90mm may be all you need.
I've added a photo of my 8" dob that I made the dobsonian mount for. I can comfortably use the scope just seated in a chair. It's movements are silky smooth - I saw to that. It is by far the scope I most use at home. The scope cost me $200, the mount bugger all.
I don't think I would be taking photos or video at this stage, but I won't rule it out. I've been able to up the budget a bit, thanks to OT at work.
I would mainly be using the scope to just look at the moon, planets, stars and pretty much anything I could!
I don't think tracking was the right word for what I was asking. With the dobs if I find something in the sky that I want to look at again and again, is it guess work to spot the same object or is there coordinates on the mount that I can work off?
That's what the finder scope is for. Using charts and the finder scope you can find anything.
The other way is with more $ and install digital setting circles which make the scope "push-to" after the scope's been aligned and you've entered the object you want to see. You can also make a set of manual setting circles for a dob and then use your PC, tablet or smart phone to give you the appropriate coordinates for you scope. Plenty of info here in IIS for this too. Very cost effective too, but requires you to do all the work to make the graded scales.
Many folks install these digital setting circles and swear by them. I started with just a finder and still do 30 years later. It is all upto you. The amount of $ is also variable on these systems, but they all work very well.
I'm going to head out to Bintel and maybe even Astronomy Alive in Bentleigh and check out a few scopes.
Would you guys recommend a Saxon 8" dob, or the Bintel 8"?
Much of a muchness the Saxon or Bintel. The Saxon is made by the same company that owns Skywatcher, Celestron, Tasco, and many others. Bintel is made by the Taiwanese company GSO which are just superb for their price. I'd tend more to the Bintel. Chris at Astronomy Alive I've found very helpful and knowledgeable too.
I don't think I would be taking photos or video at this stage, but I won't rule it out. I've been able to up the budget a bit, thanks to OT at work.
I would mainly be using the scope to just look at the moon, planets, stars and pretty much anything I could!
I don't think tracking was the right word for what I was asking. With the dobs if I find something in the sky that I want to look at again and again, is it guess work to spot the same object or is there coordinates on the mount that I can work off?
It looks like a Dob is for you! They are a brilliant way to learn the night sky. You will quickly start to recognise where the night sky signposts are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuffandthat
I'm going to head out to Bintel and maybe even Astronomy Alive in Bentleigh and check out a few scopes.
Would you guys recommend a Saxon 8" dob, or the Bintel 8"?
Optically, they are probably quite similar. They may have a couple of differences, like 2-speed focuser, the included eyepieces, etc. I have a Bintel 8" f/5 Newt on an HEQ5 mount and it's a lovely scope. It's not a Dob, but optically it's the same. I do have a Bintel 10" Dob and it's great - I use it more than the 8" because it's so easy to setup and use (but it's not nearly as cute as Alex's 8" Dob)!
Last edited by Scorpius51; 27-02-2013 at 10:55 AM.
to the IIS forum.
