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Old 11-03-2013, 03:08 PM
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rogerg (Roger)
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Canon 6D testing - usability

Used a Canon 6D extensively on the weekend. Very impressed by the low noise levels but surprised at what I think is poor usability and lack of buttons, comparing to my 7D.

- Play button depressed/flat makes it harder to press while on the telescope.
- Deleting multiple photo's using depressed/flat delete button and arrow buttons was fiddly.
- Zoom requires (1) press play (2) press zoom (3) scroll instead of just (1) press play (2) zoom.
- Using the zoom button and scroll wheel for zooming resulted in lots of unintentional changing of aperture setting.
- Using scroll wheel for zoom instead of buttons made shaking the telescope/camera and accidentally changing the focus of the camera due to pushing hard on the wheel/jerky motion.
- A few less buttons (no picture style, no m-fn, didn't compare others exactly) means menu hunting for style change (or whatever you choose to assign the button).
- Choosing HDR mode seemed to require extensive menu drilling rather than pressing a button, and there's no spare button to assign it.

All of this was a bit odd I thought? why not keep the extra couple of buttons? and why aggregate so much functionality in to the wheel?

It seems to me the camera would be great for use completely wired on a telescope (limited physical touching) and great for use on specific subject matters, but quickly changing between uses (like on holiday switching between shooting landscape and portrait, or landscape and macro) gets cumbersome ... ?

Perhaps those who have the 6D can share how they've found the usability after having one for a while

Roger.
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:57 PM
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iceman (Mike)
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I really hate the position of the new buttons

You used to be able to use two hands effectively, now everything has to be done with the right hand.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:37 PM
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rogerg (Roger)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman View Post
I really hate the position of the new buttons

You used to be able to use two hands effectively, now everything has to be done with the right hand.
Thanks for your input Mike. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who dislikes the arrangement, but at the same time I was hoping to hear you'd quickly got used to it and now liked it
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:49 PM
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Octane (Humayun)
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You get used to it.

It didn't take long to become adept at the difference.

I actually prefer it this way.

You can set the zoom to go to a pre-configured zoom level (almost 1:1) which takes the scrolling out of the equation. At least it does on the 5D Mark III. I'm assuming the 6D's firmware is based on that lineage.

I don't understand why you'd want to assign HDR to a button? Firstly, in-camera HDR saves only to JPG, and, secondly, HDR...

H
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:04 AM
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rogerg (Roger)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
You get used to it.

It didn't take long to become adept at the difference.

I actually prefer it this way.

You can set the zoom to go to a pre-configured zoom level (almost 1:1) which takes the scrolling out of the equation. At least it does on the 5D Mark III. I'm assuming the 6D's firmware is based on that lineage.

I don't understand why you'd want to assign HDR to a button? Firstly, in-camera HDR saves only to JPG, and, secondly, HDR...

H
Do you have the 6D or are you referring to the 5D III ?

HDR - true. I suppose I was thinking if it's going to be any use at all it has to be quick to turn on/off. I can see a place for it in happy-snap situations where I don't want to spend time processing the shot later, such as I use my iPhone's HDR function for, if it were easy to turn on/off.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:59 AM
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naskies (Dave)
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This sounds like Canon's habit of artificial product differentiation (vs the 5DmkIII) through limiting camera usability/ergonomics?
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:45 PM
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I don't mind the change of button set up from the 7D with all settings being done via the Quick control button, only because I have now gotten used to it. But I don't like the position of the play button.It is too close to the others. In the dark I am always hitting the QC button.
Overall though I'm loving the quality and practically noiseless shots it produces.
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Old 13-03-2013, 08:41 AM
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For me at least, the ultimate criteria in any camera is the image quality and for astro the high ISO low noise performance. Ergonomics, other aspects to me are secondary although nice. Astro work is really only demanding a few things from the camera. Mainly low noise at high ISO and a decent live view with magnification for focusing.

In this regard the 6D is way advanced over the 7D. The 7D is a fabulous camera but there is a 7D mark 11 just around the corner that per Canon CEO is likely to be the last pro APSc camera. Leaked specs are very very impressive though so if you don't like 6D ergonomics then perhaps hang out for the new 7D11. It will be expensive though. 6D is likely to be cheaper but 24mp and most likely great high ISO low noise performance and a host of other high end features may suit you better. So 6D versus 7D2 may be a tougher decision especially if you already love your 7D and no doubt have mainly APSc lenses which will not work on 6D (I assume).

The other advantage of 6D would be the centre focus point may focus on a bright star. Live view focusing makes that not so vital perhaps but it would be nice if a camera did that and I think 6D will.

So to my mind 6D boils down to low prices for full frame and class leading high ISO low noise. Of course Canon cameras have a big advantage in astro in that most 3rd party manufacturers/software is designed for Canon first.

The other "other" alternative, dare I say it, is mirrorless - shock/horror!

Sony Nex is probably best choice for that at present. Of those models probably the Nex 5R or 6 is the go. The new 3N may be fine as well. They are all 16.3mp Sony Exmor sensors as used in several cameras like Fuji XE1, XPro1, Nikon D7000 and probably others.

I have used my non modified Fuji XE1 in the same way as my Nikon D800E but as you may expect the Nikon was in another league. But the XE1 did pretty well. Also Nex 5/6 system is less than half the cost of a 6D.

Greg.
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Old 13-03-2013, 09:56 AM
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Greg,

The only APS-C lenses are the small amount of EF-S lenses (usually thrown in as part of a kit on the consumer bodies). These won't work with APS sensors because they protrude too far back into the mirror assembly.

There are videos of people having shaved the back of the EF-S mount to get them to fit.

H
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Old 13-03-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octane View Post
Greg,

The only APS-C lenses are the small amount of EF-S lenses (usually thrown in as part of a kit on the consumer bodies). These won't work with APS sensors because they protrude too far back into the mirror assembly.

There are videos of people having shaved the back of the EF-S mount to get them to fit.

H

H,

Do they vignette? I know some Nikon APSc lenses will vignette on full frame. In fact on D800 it automatically detects the APS lens and will automatically shoot in crop mode (APS sized images).

Greg.
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Old 13-03-2013, 10:23 AM
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Not sure if EF-S lenses will vignette. Never shaved the back of one and put it into my APS cameras!

It's not like the DX/FX lens paradigm of Nikon where lenses are specifically made for a particular format. In the Canon world, there used to be the FD mount, the EF mount and the newer lightweight/cheap EF-S mount. The EF-S mount is typically for kit lenses which are made of plastic, and very lightweight. Having said that, there's one or two which get rave reviews -- particularly the image stabilised ones. But, no, there's no DX/FX thing in the Canon world.

H
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Old 13-03-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naskies View Post
This sounds like Canon's habit of artificial product differentiation (vs the 5DmkIII) through limiting camera usability/ergonomics?
That's what I wondered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsun View Post
I don't mind the change of button set up from the 7D with all settings being done via the Quick control button, only because I have now gotten used to it. But I don't like the position of the play button.It is too close to the others. In the dark I am always hitting the QC button.
Overall though I'm loving the quality and practically noiseless shots it produces.
Agreed that the shots are practically noiseless. Good to hear your experience regarding the buttons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
For me at least, the ultimate criteria in any camera is the image quality and for astro the high ISO low noise performance. Ergonomics, other aspects to me are secondary although nice. Astro work is really only demanding a few things from the camera. Mainly low noise at high ISO and a decent live view with magnification for focusing.

In this regard the 6D is way advanced over the 7D.
Yes, agreed. I use my camera for much more than astro so my criteria is as much focused around usability and suitability in other scenarios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
The 7D is a fabulous camera but there is a 7D mark 11 just around the corner that per Canon CEO is likely to be the last pro APSc camera. Leaked specs are very very impressive though so if you don't like 6D ergonomics then perhaps hang out for the new 7D11.
I won't be expecting the 7DII to have noise levels near the 6D or 5DIII, but I could be pleasantly surprised I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
So 6D versus 7D2 may be a tougher decision especially if you already love your 7D and no doubt have mainly APSc lenses which will not work on 6D (I assume).
I have no APSc lenses. Most of my L lenses I purchased when I was using full frame film believe it or not. My intention has always been to move my way back to full frame but to be honest I no longer have a preference between full frame vs crop except for the glaring technicalities of pixel size matched with focal ratio problems and noise.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 14-03-2013, 09:38 PM
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'Usability after having one for a while'...

As a Paramount user, I am mainly intrested in how it connects to Software Bisque's TheSkyX. After some waiting I can now confirm that it does connect and works a treat!

Going beyond the Canon menus and hardware layouts that you describe above, connected to TheSkyX I can now image link all across the sky, capture PEC data, program a series of shots with delays and capture data via three acquisition modes. See this blog for details: http://www.bisque.com/sc/blogs/seeke...r-imaging.aspx

I am also VERY fond of the EOS Remote Utility. For rough focus adjustment the 200x live view zoom is just fantastic. This really gets things in the ballpark before commencing a focus run with RoboFocus and @Focus2 program (within TheSkyX).

Moving from a little Nikon D40 to this I really can't complain, but my use is also quite specific, unlike you pro photo guys who want all the jazz for your daytime and nightscape shots.
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Old 15-03-2013, 11:17 PM
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P.S. also loving the free Canon EOS wifi app on Android. Take photos and view on the way home from the comfort of your phone over wifi (great on big screens like GalaxyNote2), and easily download direct to phone from there to share on Facebook etc. No cables or card readers, finally!
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