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Old 24-07-2021, 12:04 PM
Azza449 (Aaron)
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Collimating by hand vs Orion tool

Hi everyone,

I am just wanting some different opinions on collimating. Specifically, is it better and worth doing by hand using a Alan key and screwdriver for example vs buying the Orion collimating tool from Bintel. This will be my first telescope I own so I don’t know much about collimating, so I apologise if I get anything wrong haha.

Cheers,
Aaron
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Old 24-07-2021, 12:35 PM
Dave882 (David)
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Hi Aaron- certainly a valid question but would help to know what type of telescope you have or are planning to get?
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Old 24-07-2021, 12:46 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Aaron,
Firstly are you trying to collimated a basic newtonian reflector ?
If your trying to collimate a different type of reflector telescope like a Cassegrain , RASA or Mak then the process is more complicated and other folk on IIS who own these types hopefully can assist.
If you have a newtonian you will probably need some tools ( an Allen key or sometimes a Philips head screwdriver depending on the model and brand ) usually for the secondary mirror adjustment , a Collimation eye piece and a Laser Collimator like the Orion LaserMate. The primary or larger rear mirror usually has Collimation adjustment knobs at the end of the scope
Collimation or the process of aligning the optics ( mirrors and/ or Lens ) on your scopes optical tube assembly ( OTA) requires incremental mechanical adjustment and incremental visual checking with the use of a Collimation eye piece and laser collimator. You can also use a Collimation cap with pin hole as well

Some good reference sites to demonstrate how to collimate newtonian reflectors are -

Astrobaby.com ( Collimation )
Starizona.com ( Collimating a newtonian)
Jason Khadder ( Collimating a newtonian )

I’m sure other folk on IIS will offer assistance as well

Cheers
Martin
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Old 24-07-2021, 03:59 PM
Azza449 (Aaron)
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Thanks David and Martin for your replies! That is really good to know and I appreciate your input! Sorry I had a feeling I forgot something (whoops haha) the telescope I’m going to buy is a 8” Dobsonian, so I believe that is a basic Newtonian style?
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Old 24-07-2021, 04:03 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azza449 View Post
Thanks David and Martin for your replies! That is really good to know and I appreciate your input! Sorry I had a feeling I forgot something (whoops haha) the telescope I’m going to buy is a 8” Dobsonian, so I believe that is a basic Newtonian style?
An 8” Dob is a newtonian reflector so the above collimation info is relevant
Cheers
Martin
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Old 24-07-2021, 04:22 PM
Azza449 (Aaron)
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Okay thanks Martin!
So from what I can tell it is worth buying the collimation eyepiece tool to assist the process? Rather than just using tools and no eyepiece? (Again sorry I don’t fully know how collimation works)
Also just to make sure, the Orion collimation tool (MkII) that doesn’t have a laser?
Another thing, can I collimate with just the eyepiece and some hand tools such as Allen key or screwdriver?

Thanks,
Aaron
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Old 25-07-2021, 06:12 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Aaron,
Your going to need the Orion collimating eye piece to align your secondary mirror first , then align your primary mirror ( visually )
The Orion laser collimator is used to check and fine tune both secondary and primary mirrors.Both collimating tools are inserted and tightened firmly into the telescope focuser with its inch and quarter adapter in place. Use the websites to show you how to use the collimating eye piece correctly. To use the laser collimator for final checking , check the secondary mirror using the laser collimator which gives you a red dot on the primary mirror towards the centre ( primary mirrors have a little centre target icon the shape of a donut ring ) so then you can “micro adjust” the secondary mirrors screws to get the red laser dot smack dab in the centre of the primary mirror little target donut ring.
The primary mirror is checked and adjusted by using the back end of the laser collimator facing down the OTA towards the rear primary mirror. The laser collimator has an illuminated visual target.The primary mirror at the rear has 3 locking knobs and 3 adjusting knobs. You back off the locking knobs a few turns first , then use the adjusting knobs ( again micro adjusting ) to leave an even red glow around the centre of the collimating target , you don’t want to see the red dot of the laser just an even red glow around the centre of the target. Once done , carefully tighten up the locking knobs carefully to ensure you don’t disturb you even red glow. It takes patience, practice and skill to fine tune your collimating skills
Good luck
Martin
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Old 25-07-2021, 06:37 AM
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Hello,

You can get a lot of good info (with diagrams) from the web, from cheap camera film caps to check the secondary with to full blown collimation assistance.

The good news is you really shouldn't have to worry about the secondary more than once. If you have a F6 8", they hold collimation very well and really only need tweaking between use unless bumped. Slower scopes have a larger bullseye for collimation to make life a little easier as well.

I'd view collimation as a two step format.
- Set your scope with the optic paths set as good as you can with the laser collimator.
- Look at star testing your collimation after the mirror has cooled for the nights viewing for a final fine tune.


Steve
Gary Seronik is a good source of well written info as well.
https://garyseronik.com/a-beginners-...o-collimation/

Last edited by mura_gadi; 25-07-2021 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 25-07-2021, 07:19 AM
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Outcast (Carlton)
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Most basic, simple & comprehensive collimation guide I have ever come across:

https://www.astro-baby.com/astrobaby...ian-reflector/
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Old 25-07-2021, 01:40 PM
Azza449 (Aaron)
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Okay thankyou heaps everyone for your valuable information! So from what I can tell, the collimation eyepiece is basically essential and then the laser one is a very beneficial option to make the process easier? Is that correct?
Just because if I can save some money initially that will be great and then I can invest in the laser collimator later on
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Old 25-07-2021, 02:11 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azza449 View Post
Okay thankyou heaps everyone for your valuable information! So from what I can tell, the collimation eyepiece is basically essential and then the laser one is a very beneficial option to make the process easier? Is that correct?
Just because if I can save some money initially that will be great and then I can invest in the laser collimator later on
Aaron,
You could get by with just a collimating eye piece if your proficient in collimating but recommend you buy the laser as well as it’s a must for beginners to check Collimation
Your choice but my recommendation
Cheers
Martin

Just a side note , have budgeted for your telescope including eye pieces etc.. or any of the following accessories including Barlow’s , moon filters , planetary filters , emission filters and the list goes on for visual astronomy ??
These alone added together depending on what you quality and performance you expect out of your telescope will cost more than the cost or your 8” dobsonian
Just thought I’d give you a heads up on this hobby and costs for budget to mid range costs on accessories
Eye pieces $40 to $250 ea
Barlow’s $100 to $250 ea
Moon filters $25 to $60 ea
Planetary filters $25 to $60 ea

Hopefully your 8” Dobsonian came with some eye pieces and filters etc... when you purchase it ( ie: a package deal )
Cheers
Martin
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Old 25-07-2021, 03:03 PM
Azza449 (Aaron)
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Thanks Martin! I appreciate your advice and giving me an idea of different prices for this hobby. I have thought a little bit about budget for it. The package that I am buying includes 3 eyepieces (2 1.25 inch and 1 2 inch), it also comes with a moon filter, and finderscope. I thought it came with a barlow lens but have just realised I don’t believe it actually does so that sucks a bit. I was hoping to get enough in the package to get a decent start in astronomy and not have to buy more for a little bit but I think I may have to buy a few extra things on top of the telescope :/ thankyou for bringing all of this to my attention!!
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Old 26-07-2021, 01:11 AM
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Sounds like your planned kit is a good place to start.

My advice is to add gear slowly over a period of time. The sky is not going anywhere so there is no rush. Use the eyepieces that come with your scope and gain some viewing experience. Discover what you like and do not like about the included eyepieces. If this is a hobby that keeps your attention, I promise this will not be your last or only scope purchase.

Depending on what you enjoy looking at the kind of additional gear you may want is different. With some viewing under your belt and maybe attending a star party or two, you will identify what is important to you, your style and preferences. I would not be in a rush to add more stuff with a couple of exceptions…

I would get a comfortable adjustable height observing chair…an 8 inch Dobsonian reflecting telescope is a great telescope (I started with one) but I found that after a while it was uncomfortable to view for long periods of time (my back ached in crouching). The chair fixed that! If you are handy you can build one or find a commercially made one. It is the tool I use every single viewing session regardless of scope.

I am not a fan of the attached finder scope and much prefer the Telrad as my “finder”…makes star hopping much easier for me.

So in summary, get a collimation tool (laser or not), adjustable height chair and Telrad to get you started and then use them.

With experience you will determine other bits you may need…dew control, filters, additional eyepieces etc. I would suggest that slowly adding gear after gaining some experience is a prudent and thoughtful strategy and a more budget friendly approach. It will save you from costly mistakes and accumulating a lot of stuff that is only used once.

The basic set-up package that comes with your scope should sufficiently get you started. Remember, the “giants” of astronomy had equipment that was far inferior to your starting gear. If Galileo had only had access to an 8 inch scope…

Get out under the night sky and enjoy
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Old 26-07-2021, 11:10 PM
Azza449 (Aaron)
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Awesome, thanks Scott! That sounds like a good plan!

Thankyou again everyone for your help!! I really appreciate it!
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Old 31-07-2021, 10:14 PM
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Aaron,
Here's another good site that you may want to peruse...

> https://skyandtelescope.org/astronom...tor-telescope/

Has a load of images as well.

ps. I like to start out checking that the focuser, (Note: no eyepiece inserted), is correctly aligned with the 2ndary & it, the 2ndary, has the right amount of "Off set."
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Old 01-08-2021, 04:55 AM
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Hello,

I'll second Scott's suggestion of a chair, I got a gas lift bar stool for $20 from a garage sale. One of the better accessories you can get imo for a 8" dob. There is a post here on ISS for music chairs that were suitable and very reasonably priced new. They also looked pretty light, my gas lift is upwards of 4kilos and is not flat and foldable.

I'd throw in an eye patch as a very close second, closing or squinting an eye is not the best way to view and leads to eye strain.

If your viewing from a light polluted area make a dew shield, they work very well at keeping stay light out as well. (Any black non-glossy stiff light weight material will do) Not sure if you have the collapsible scope dob, if you do make/get a shroud, even if its a pillow case and two bungy straps to keep it in place to start with...

Also, as Scott suggested, spend time at the eye piece for a while, work out what you like and don't like. Then open up the wallet.


Steve
Ps. I put a sanding stone to the focuser on my SW down as per a few websites, I found it a huge improvement.

Pps. If you have a lot of bright lights around your viewing area, covering your head and the focuser can help a lot. Something like a hoodie aka Kenny from South Park would be ideal.

Last edited by mura_gadi; 01-08-2021 at 05:28 AM.
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