One should ask does democracy in its true form still exist, I think not and major corporations determine our future via Govt puppets, just today Albaneasy made democracy an issue regarding the latest attempt on Trumps life but in a true democracy someone like Trump would never be allowed to run, IMO he should just have said nothing.
There is a Brit on Utube, who apparently now lives in Australia, has a Utube channel MGUY. He spends all of his time refurbishing EVs, promoting the idea that they are all firebombs waiting to go off in your garage. His latest post was about EV bans in China in under ground car parks, because they represent a fire hazard. Sure some early Li-ion batteries do comes with risks, but new battery tech is rapidly evolving to the point where drivingbnails through them fails to cause a reaction. Scare mongering has always been an effective tool to impead progress. Australia should deport him.
One should ask does democracy in its true form still exist,
No it does not. We have what I like to think of as a "monetocracy", where dollars are proportional to votes. Simplistically, one dollar = one vote, but definitely not one man/woman = one vote. It replaced the "slightly" unpalatable feudalism of many centuries ago. The current system keeps us "happy" by providing an illusion of choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorW
.... major corporations determine our future via Govt puppets, just today Albaneasy made democracy an issue regarding the latest attempt on Trumps life but in a true democracy someone like Trump would never be allowed to run, IMO he should just have said nothing.
There is a Brit on Utube, who apparently now lives in Australia, has a Utube channel MGUY. He spends all of his time refurbishing EVs, promoting the idea that they are all firebombs waiting to go off in your garage. His latest post was about EV bans in China in under ground car parks, because they represent a fire hazard. Sure some early Li-ion batteries do comes with risks, but new battery tech is rapidly evolving to the point where drivingbnails through them fails to cause a reaction. Scare mongering has always been an effective tool to impead progress. Australia should deport him.
Maybe rubbishing rather than refurbishing?
And he's an absolute muppet. I recently commented on one of his videos, at length, to attempt to correct some of the many myths he promoted about a Tesla semi that crashed and burned in the US. He has not had the courtesy to either reply or to remove the flagrantly false assertations from his video.
Another is the self proclaimed "AutoExpert" John Cadogan, who, although he sells EVs through his website, including the Kona Electric (which he used to own one of and cans it mercifully), constantly gets the clickbaiters riled with EV misinformation dressed up as "Fact". Even in the one video where he acknowledged that he made an arithmetic error (which basically reversed the conclusion) he made another systematic error which has been repeatedly pointed out, but doesn't fit his narrative. Apparently hypocrisy is not on the engineer's curriculum. Of course JC is against Tesla becuase he can't sell them on his website...
It also beggars belief that as many city dwellers are being moved into high density towers, body corporates frequently refuse owners permission to install...at their own expense ..a garage charger!
Yet State legislators do not have the gonads to invoke laws that would such
asinine refusals illegal. To quote Lennon (John) "Strange days indeed"
Hi Peter,
Interesting thread. I drive a hybrid, my wife drives an EV. We also have a holiday unit and charge my wife's EV there with the granny charger.
The issues around garage chargers aren't straightforward. Apartment building haven't been constructed with appropriate electrical infrastructure to support multiple chargers drawing up to 11kW. If an early adopter installs a charger in their car space, it might rule out any one else installing a charger in their car space. The body corporate has to manage this conundrum - potentially budgeting for a major electrical infrastructure upgrade to the unit complex for which all owners will have to contribute through the sinking fund.
We are lucky that the powerpoint in our garage is connected to our unit's meter, so we're paying for our own EV recharging. If the electricity in a common garage area is paid for by the body corporate, it's not fair on other owners to be paying for an EV owners recharging - its not like there's always been a free petrol pump in the garage for ICE owners.
I understand that it is a challenge for apartment dwellers to charge their EVs, but they've got to accept that it's not going to be a quick, or cheap, fix. Another conundrum is how will charging infrastructure on the highways ever be able to cope with periods of peak demand like the Easter long weekend - it's going to take time to sort that out, but eventually we will get there.
I'm an itinerant worker and have seen many EV owner plugging their personal cars into random power points in parking garages. There have been emails sent about circuits being overloaded and tripping (as well as trip hazards from extension leads). Again the electrical infrastructure in the parking garage was never designed to handle the load that is now being imposed. Ultimately it's theft. All of the people doing this are earning good coin and my sarcastic mind often contemplates offering them a fiver to help fill their tank!
Interesting thread. I drive a hybrid, my wife drives an EV........
............Again the electrical infrastructure in the parking garage was never designed to handle the load that is now being imposed. .........
DT
Dave, you raise valid points.
We had to run 32 amp flex to our meter box and install another BCD for the Tesla Wall charger (admittedly being in a free standing home makes this easy)
Depending on the unit complex, installing high amperage flex to the owner's garage might be difficult or impossible, but I'd suggest a 15amp GPO would not be hard, nor should it affect the building's load capacity.
In the case to which I refer, the body corporate would not allow even that.
One would hope the building regulations would make EV charging capacity an imperative for all new constructions.
If the load comes off the common property circuit(s), it does not have to be "free" to the EV user. The BC could bill them a nominal charging fee or actual usage fee based on the car's charging data (I can pull up our Tesla data for the last year if need be, via it's App).
Just a bit of rational thought is required rather than a blanket "No".
One 15amp GPO won’t overload the circuits, but one in every garage isn’t necessarily as simple as it sounds. Community living comes with compromise and decisions have to be made with consideration of the fairness of that decision on all owners.
My main point is that all of this infrastructure costs money, and those who want it should be the footing bill. The A380 needed a lot of infrastructure upgrades at the gates - someone had to pay for that.
"Apartment building haven't been constructed with appropriate electrical infrastructure to support multiple chargers drawing up to 11kW."
Nor have the neighbourhoods where these apartments are built...
We live in a low-density area, and (before we had solar installed) we ran the pool pumps at night, to get cheaper 'off peak' rates.
On a really cold night in July 2023, with the aircon running, the hot water heating, the pool pump running, and a bunch of other things....we drew 8kw for a sustained period...(checked my suppliers app for this)
Even a granny charger (32amps) can draw up to 7.7 kw when its running....
suddenly adding dozens of large homes draw into an area designed for much lower draw means substantial upgrades to the supplier's infrastructure...
I personally am all for EV's - i'll get one when the mighty Falc wears out....*
But my use case is different....If i leave the house at all i use public transport, and the big fella only goes to the shops and back...so i can have an EV sitting in the garage all day soaking up the herbs from the solar...
I probably dont need a supercharger....
If we downsize to a flat i don't know how this would work...
*** hehehe who ever heard of a Falc wearing out....
Now moving forward on this obviously infrastructure in Australia can't cope with everyone going over to EV's one wonders how a place like China with the most EV's in the world (13million) handled this situation ?? and on another point what will the Govt do about lost revenue ($20 billion) when everyone goes over to EV's. Also what will the Govt do with 20 million ICE vehicles that will be banned on the roads by 2040. I also wonder how is a vehicle with less moving parts dearer to manufacture (albeit aside from batteries which will need to come down in price and improve)???
No I support EV's in principle but I believe a hybrid situation is a more logical way of moving forWARD.
Now moving forward on this obviously infrastructure in Australia can't cope with everyone going over to EV's one wonders how a place like China with the most EV's in the world (13million) handled this situation ?? and on another point what will the Govt do about lost revenue ($20 billion) when everyone goes over to EV's. Also what will the Govt do with 20 million ICE vehicles that will be banned on the roads by 2040. I also wonder how is a vehicle with less moving parts dearer to manufacture (albeit aside from batteries which will need to come down in price and improve)???
No I support EV's in principle but I believe a hybrid situation is a more logical way of moving forWARD.
- 13 million cars vs 1.3 billion people is the vapour coming off the drop in the ocean. They easily have the infrastructure to cope, and the resources to make it happen.
(as opposed to 25 million of us servicing a landmass almost the same size)
The Govt has ruled out the banning of ICE vehicles by 2040 - this was only a 'recommendation' by a lobby group, and never a serious option
Apart from the batteries and maybe some extra copper, i don't know that
EV's are more expensive to manufacture...but ICE vehicles are sold at greater volume, so profits are made with volume...
(chicken - meet my mate egg)
A sobering thought though - for the vast majority of human history, and as it is indeed now....personal vehicular, long distance transit was a luxury bestowed upon the priveleged few...and mainly because of the black stuff....we may have to come to terms with a future where this is no longer a thing...
Human history has shown we inevitably exploit a resource until it is gone. The shift away from coal, oil or gas won’t happen seriously until there isn’t any - at any price.
Politics is about the art of compromise - postponing any real action as long as possible. Politics is not about managing the environment responsibly.
There is a Brit on Utube, who apparently now lives in Australia, has a Utube channel MGUY. He spends all of his time refurbishing EVs, promoting the idea that they are all firebombs waiting to go off in your garage. His latest post was about EV bans in China in under ground car parks, because they represent a fire hazard. Sure some early Li-ion batteries do comes with risks, but new battery tech is rapidly evolving to the point where drivingbnails through them fails to cause a reaction. Scare mongering has always been an effective tool to impead progress. Australia should deport him.
Are you talking about this guy? After this video I will definitely buy EV
While the EV stats are a little tricky to nail down: until 2023, in Australia only two EV's caught fire,
and they were in a building that burnt down....i.e building burnt the car, not the other way around.
Of the two more recent actual car fires in 2024, both had damage to their battery packs. Lord knows what standards might apply in the ROC but I'd wager
the computer generated voiceover and dramatic vision in your link wasn't created with objectivity in mind.
No undamaged EV has spontaneously caught on fire in Australia.
Exhibit A: Attached are the Fire & Rescue NSW official Stats on car fires.
Near enough 24,000 cars have gone up in smoke since 2015 (about 60 a week)
in that entire time just two were EV's.
As to why this astounding anomaly exists, you might want to take a remedial chemistry class on
exothermic reactions and petrochemicals.
Better still.... lean down next to an active EV charger plug and light up a smoke (I know smoking is bad for your health, but stick with me on this)
Then repeat, while leaning down next to the fumes coming from your petrol bowser when you next fill your ICE vehicle.
Interesting discussion. I was lucky enough to purchase a nice new Volvo EX30 a few months ago.
Yes it was expensive, certainly the most I have ever paid for a car bu a loooong way. I love the car and am constantly amazed at how much fun it is to drive. Not forking out $$$ to buy fueld is awesome and looking forward to summer when I will be able to do most charging using the solar panels.
Before buying it i researched a lot of options. Looked carefuly at 2nd hand Leaf. You can pick them up for less tha $20k now. If only driving around town, and more many peaople short trips of less than 50kms make up the vast majority of their trips, this would be a great option.
Was talking to a couple who purchased a GWM Ora a few months back. They absolutely love it, especially the happy feeling of driving past petrol stations.
It amazed me when I purchased the number of people who quite seriously told me to be careful about it catching fire!! This little titbit of misinformation has been lodged sloidly in many peoples brains. And I keep getting asked "am I still happy with it?". They all seem to expect me to change my mind
While the EV stats are a little tricky to nail down: until 2023, in Australia only two EV's caught fire,
and they were in a building that burnt down....i.e building burnt the car, not the other way around.
Of the two more recent actual car fires in 2024, both had damage to their battery packs. Lord knows what standards might apply in the ROC but I'd wager
the computer generated voiceover and dramatic vision in your link wasn't created with objectivity in mind.
No undamaged EV has spontaneously caught on fire in Australia.
Exhibit A: Attached are the Fire & Rescue NSW official Stats on car fires.
Near enough 24,000 cars have gone up in smoke since 2015 (about 60 a week)
in that entire time just two were EV's.
As to why this astounding anomaly exists, you might want to take a remedial chemistry class on
exothermic reactions and petrochemicals.
Better still.... lean down next to an active EV charger plug and light up a smoke (I know smoking is bad for your health, but stick with me on this)
Then repeat, while leaning down next to the fumes coming from your petrol bowser when you next fill your ICE vehicle.
As I said in my earlier post. When you crunch the numbers, EVs are 83 times LESS likely than ICE vehicles to catch fire.
I keep these numbers up my sleeve ready to challenge the dinner party conversations when the misinformation rears its ugly head.
Lets extrapolate that out a bit - I read 6 EV's fires to date, now considering there is only 180000 EV's in Australia against 19000000 ICE vehicles, that ratio of fires EV's to ICE would ???
Lets extrapolate that out a bit - I read 6 EV's fires to date, now considering there is only 180000 EV's in Australia against 19000000 ICE vehicles, that ratio of fires EV's to ICE would be parity
For mine, it's not even how many.....there is one undisputed fact....
When they do go off, they are orders of magnitude more nasty....
-Battery fires cannot be extinguished with an ordinary fire hose....water only makes them burn more.
-the toxic chemicals they spew out are extremely corrosive and carcinogenic.
The likelihood of them burning may be less, or at parity, but the impact of any one fire is waaaaaaaay worse.
This alone would not stop me buying one, but makes me consider getting a house with a detached garage at the very least, and avoiding underground car parks...
