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Old 28-02-2021, 09:58 PM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Horsehead, please don't laugh :)

Hi All,

Just thought I would post this attempt at the Horsehead on my super inferior camera. Being an unmodded 450D camera I wasn't expecting miracles just more interested to see if can get anything at all. I tried the push the red more but it affected all the rest bring out a lot of greens. I really had to push the processing and I know it is well clipped but overall I am happy with the results.

I will be definitely re-looking at the method of taking flats.

I can get more nebulosity out of this but at the same time, I get a lot of unwanted artifacts.

156 Lights
40 Darks
40 Flats
40 Dark Flats
40 Bias

TS 80 / 492mm (Calculated the focal length using SiriL)
Canon 450D Unmodded
HEQ5
ASI120MM Guide Camera.
General finder scope modified to hold the guide scope.
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Old 28-02-2021, 10:19 PM
Saturnine (Jeff)
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That's not that bad an image , looks fairly smooth so the flats and darks are doing their job, though the blue stars need taming. You don't mention what the total exposure time was, more exp. time will capture more nebulosity, you probably know that already.
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Old 28-02-2021, 10:21 PM
RyanJones
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All together not a bad effort Malcolm. Well done. I stared my AP journey on an unmodded 350d until I was fortunate to acquire a modified one ( which I broke the modified my original one ) thereís nothing wrong with cutting your teeth on an early DSLR. Given youíre doing things with it that it was never designed to do, they cope pretty well and bring the wonders of the universe to you.

Cheers

Ryan
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Old 28-02-2021, 11:52 PM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Thanks all, I will be looking at re-processing it and consider reducing the blues. The total exposure time was just over 5 hours taken over 2 days with 2 minute exposures
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:34 AM
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billdan (Bill)
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That's a good result for a 450D that's not modded, the QE of those older cameras is about 40%, compared to the new CMOS cameras of 90% QE. You may have to add another 5hours to what you have to bring out more red (Ha signal)

I am curious as to why you took bias sub frames, when you also had dark flats. There is no requirement to take bias frames when you have dark flats, you do not want to subtract the bias twice from your light sub frames.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:35 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Malcolm
Great effort on a difficult target which for 3 reasons
1/ Using an old noisy low QE DSLR ( nothing wrong with using this camera , I used a 600D for 4 years unmodded)
2/ This target is quite low at the moment descending in the north west / west so you would be imaging through a fair bit of atmospheric instability
3/ Apart from being Ha dominant itís a very dim target too

Well done !!!
Martin
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:16 AM
glend (Glen)
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Malcolm, congratulations on your Horsehead image. Many of us started out with un-modded DSLRs (450D in my case).
I encourage you to consider a filter mod for your camera, to open it up to more Ha. The 450D is easy to work on, and the process for the filter mod is very clearly set out by Gary Honis on his website.

http://dslrmodifications.com/rebelmod450d1.html

Have fun.
Glen
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:19 AM
RugbyRene (Rene)
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I thin you've got a very good image there given the equipment you're using. a bit more practice and a better camera and you'll be producing some fine images.
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Old 04-03-2021, 10:38 PM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Thanks all for the kind words. I will be looking into another camera, possibly a mono. Just waiting for the budget to come through and the accountant (wifes) approval .

Interesting that a few more images may bring out the red. May give a go.

I will look into the bias frames, but I have already taken them and add then for the sake of it. Curious if this might be creating the banding in the image.

Currently looking at a different way of taking flats, using an LED light panel with a linear regulator and controller.
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Old 07-03-2021, 11:17 AM
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That's a great effort. I still reckon a bit of stretching will bring out more in your 5 hours worth. You should be able to selectively bring up the red.

I've got a 450d and it does a good job, even before I astro modded it. With all your calibration files you will get some great images that will challenge the cooled camera gang.

I agree with Glen. Gary Honis is your friend.
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Old 08-03-2021, 11:10 AM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Hi Chris, appreciate it, I usually do a lot of DIY'ing and still will look at Astro modding mine to get more oomph out of it. I though have little time available, so I am forgoing some DIY activities and just buy a dedicated Astro camera.

I will though still be improving my processing skills and as I learn new techniques, will apply that to some that I have already done. This image in particular was re-processed 3 times before showing it.
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Old 06-06-2021, 10:13 PM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Hopefully an improvement

Hi have used the same data but this time changed the StarTools adjustment.

It appears the Wipe Function was causing a lot of issues for me so I disable the Gradiant sliders and let the image ride.

I believe it is better, there are no horizontal and vertical bars that don't look natural. It is a function I will need more time to learn.
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Old 06-06-2021, 10:46 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mswhin63 View Post
Hi have used the same data but this time changed the StarTools adjustment.

It appears the Wipe Function was causing a lot of issues for me so I disable the Gradiant sliders and let the image ride.

I believe it is better, there are no horizontal and vertical bars that don't look natural. It is a function I will need more time to learn.
Malcolm
Thatís a pretty good image of a very difficult target
Well done !!!
In regard to Startools, I donít follow what you mean about disabling the sliders and let it ride ?
What version of Startools are you using ?
All modules require you to press ďDoĒ to activate the function once you have set your parameters
Most Startools workflow are generally Open, AutoDev, Bin, Crop , Wipe , final stretch using AutoDev or Film dev , Contrast , HDR and so on .... until Colour then final noise reduction ( incl star masks too )
Attached is one of my workflows using version 1.7
Cheers
Martin
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File Type: pdf Startools V1.7 Basic Workflow Example.pdf (44.2 KB, 15 views)
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Old 07-06-2021, 07:30 AM
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Sunfish (Ray)
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Looks pretty good to me. Perhaps you can mask the star before stretch or apply lense corrections of the blue .
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Old 07-06-2021, 10:08 AM
AdamJL
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echo everyone else's comments. Don't be discouraged, you should be encouraged. That's a great image from that camera and you processed it well.
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  #16  
Old 07-06-2021, 10:43 AM
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Nikolas (Nik)
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For a first attempt at a target that's not as easy as the orion nebula it's a good start, keep at it.
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Old 07-06-2021, 01:27 PM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Thanks all for your comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Malcolm
In regard to Startools, I donít follow what you mean about disabling the sliders and let it ride ?
What version of Startools are you using ?

Cheers
Martin
When I use the Wipe module the gradient adjusts the reddish nebulosity into some fairly ugly bands across the image. I adjusted the Gradient sliders in different setting only to get changes in the gradients. I set them all the zero percent and got the last image which shows no bars as I did with the previous version. I was then able to get a better more detailed image. I am not going to give up on the Wipe tool as I need it for colour wiping but I will look at more details later. I usually follow the procedure on the website.

I am using the 1.7 latest version I downloaded last week. It has improvements in speed of processing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Looks pretty good to me. Perhaps you can mask the star before stretch or apply lense corrections of the blue .
Yes, masking will be another step to learn, Only basic auto star masking I use when required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJL View Post
echo everyone else's comments. Don't be discouraged, you should be encouraged. That's a great image from that camera and you processed it well.
Not discouraged, actually the latest output has boosted my spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolas View Post
For a first attempt at a target that's not as easy as the orion nebula it's a good start, keep at it.
This one is particularly hard for an un-modded camera. A modded camera should get deeper reds. So far I have to artificially create the reddish tinge.
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Old 07-06-2021, 03:43 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mswhin63 View Post
Thanks all for your comments.



When I use the Wipe module the gradient adjusts the reddish nebulosity into some fairly ugly bands across the image. I adjusted the Gradient sliders in different setting only to get changes in the gradients. I set them all the zero percent and got the last image which shows no bars as I did with the previous version. I was then able to get a better more detailed image. I am not going to give up on the Wipe tool as I need it for colour wiping but I will look at more details later. I usually follow the procedure on the website.

I am using the 1.7 latest version I downloaded last week. It has improvements in speed of processing.



Yes, masking will be another step to learn, Only basic auto star masking I use when required.



Not discouraged, actually the latest output has boosted my spirit.



This one is particularly hard for an un-modded camera. A modded camera should get deeper reds. So far I have to artificially create the reddish tinge.
Malcolm
With Wipe , the default setting usually produces a good outcome which canít be fully assessed until you do your final stretch in AutoDev or Film dev ( I never bother looking at the colour check , I just skip it and finish Wipe )
As long as you crop your stacking artifacts , mask out any dust donuts and other observable gradients or anomalies.
I also use the narrowband preset at the top for narrowband images , again it usually does a great job
Ive never ever needed to touch the sliders in 4 years using Startools, except for nudging up the dark anomalies by a 4 to 6 pixels
Wipe at the end will always give you a grainy field, as long as that grainy field is relatively even and not suffering from vignetting, just hit ok and move on to your final stretch in which case 9 times out of 10 I use AutoDev
Cheers
Martin
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Old 07-06-2021, 05:30 PM
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mswhin63 (Malcolm)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek View Post
Malcolm
With Wipe , the default setting usually produces a good outcome which canít be fully assessed until you do your final stretch in AutoDev or Film dev ( I never bother looking at the colour check , I just skip it and finish Wipe )
It is interesting that the default Wipe sliders are the ones causing my horizontal bars, always in the same location on all DSS stacks that I create.

It has taken me a while to assess where my bars were coming from. As mentioned earlier, I am still at the earlier stages of using StarTools so there may be a workaround or something else that I am doing.

Going to try a few more images I have done in the past, but the latest in this thread is the best improvement I have had. The original image shown in the first post of this thread is so dark as to hide the bars. I will process another one of the same level and add it to this thread later.
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Old 07-06-2021, 06:21 PM
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Bassnut (Fred)
Narrowfield rules!

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Its funny, I see so many horseheads it gets boring, and then you post this cracker with a "dont laugh". its different and interesting, dont process the crap out of it so it looks like all the others!.
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