Binocular advice

[trufflehunter]

Hi Mark! I just noticed your post and didn't realise you had sold the AR6... I hope it's gone to a good home! The motors on the LXD55 mount are pretty noisy at max slew, although it never bothered the dogs. But one night it frightened a bat out of a tree! I don't know who was more frightened, the bat or me! The LX90 isn't really that much quieter either!

You've made a good decision getting a dob. It really encourages you to learn your way around without being side-tracked by the technical issues of a go-to mount.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

You gotted a bit ripped off methinks. Andrews sent me the small astro model. Great at night. Mediocre/good of a day. The Objective lenses are faint blue multi and the Eye end is faint violet. Hey, they were free! They actually work better than Cheryl's super expensive ($500+) Pentax GIANT Binocs.

Ken,

Actually I think your the one that got ripped off maybe ?

The largest porro prism binoculars that Pentax "currently" makes/sells are the 20x60 PCF WP II and you can buy these for about $300.

http://centre.net.au/Pentax_20x60_PC...rs_0007KY.html

The original PCF WP series of Pentax Binoculars also included a 16x60 model which retailed for between $300 and $380 (I paid $320 about 3 years ago for mine) with the original 20 x 60 PCF WP costing just under $400. If you paid over $500 for either of these binoculars someone saw you coming. If your talking about paying over $500 for any of the Pentax roof prism binos I can understand the price, because roof prism binos are a "LOT" more expensive than porros and at the lower price levels (under $1,500) are not as good as porros for astronomy, however these aren't even close to being considered "giant". Which model and size Pentax Binos are you referring ? Something from years past maybe early PCF's or PCF III's, PCF V which were more expensive in the early days ? Its worth noting that the early PCF binoculars, up to the PCF III's were made in Japan. The later PCF series (V and WP) I believe are assembled in China from Japanese components.

That having been said, NO binoculars Andrews gives away for free (I doubt any that he sells as well) will come close to the performance of the 16x60 or 20x60 Pentax PCF WP. These actually perform way beyond there price level and perform BETTER than the smaller Pentax PCF WP binoculars due to an additional eyepiece lens element. The 20 x 60's also incorporate a field flattener lens. These are both high class binoculars at a lower/mid price level. They are not as good as Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Nikon or Swarovski but they offer 80 to 90% of the performance of the top quality binos at 10% of the price and perform infinitely better than any of the cheaper Chinese products which is generally what Andrews sells or gives away. They are so superior to anything with "ruby red coatings coming from E-Bay" its not funny.

CS-John B

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Darkplague

You mentioned the Nikon action extremes, well what about this pair:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

It is on only "action" and not action extreme. I'm guessing it would be the model below the AE. Being Nikon it wouldnt be too bad perhaps.

Mark,

Your correct in your assumption, The Nikon Action are a lower level cheaper binocular than the EX. Here are links to the respective webpages from Maxwell Optical Indutrues, who are the Australian Distributors for Nikon.

Nikon Action EX
http://www.maxwell.com.au/products/n...action_ex.html

Nikon Action
http://www.maxwell.com.au/products/n...rd/action.html

If you click on the price guide at the top right corner of each page you will see that for the 10x50 models the Recommended Retail of the 10x50 Action EX is $499 and for the 10x 50 Action is $370. If you shop around you will do infinitely better than this pricewise. Forget about E-Bay, buy from a reputable dealer, If you have warranty issues you want to be able to return them to the purchaser/distributor not hunting for a "non-existent seller". My guess is that company's like Diamonds Camera Store or Centre.net would order either of these binos in for you and the price would be about 60% to 70% of the RRP. The EX series offer better quality optics, significantly longer eye-relief and they are waterproof. The EOF performance is sharper in the EX series. Depends what quality your looking for and what you are prepared to pay. The Nikon Action are a "fair" binocular but IMO not as good as the Action EX or the Pentax PCF WP which cost slightly less money. I always try to buy the best quality I can afford and not look for "el-cheapo" comprises, I have a theory and that is "the poor man always ends up paying twice". eg. The Pentax 12x50 PCF WP which cost about $270 have a limited lifetime warranty, company's don't offer that type of warranty on crap products. I should also point out that in the Pentax PCF WP series I prefer the 12x50's over the 10x50's as the 12x50's have an additional eyepiece lens element which provides a slighly flatter field than the 10x50's do and EOF performance is a little better than the 10x50's, not that the 10x50's are bad just the 12x50's are a little better to the EOF.

I would recommend you open your wallet and buy either the 12x50 Pentax PCF WP II or the 10x50 Nikon Action EX. You will be happy with either of these Binos for a long time to come. Anything bigger than these and you really need a tripod to support them.

CS-John B

[RAJAH235]

After reading all these posts, I can only say, anyone want to buy a pair of 'Gerber' 7 x 50's? In perfect/as new condition. Hardly used. If interested, please PM. Regards, L.
They are still in the 'For sale' section.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

I beleive the pentaxs have a narrowish field of view compared to the Nikons which is another factor to decide on .

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Starkler

I beleive the pentaxs have a narrowish field of view compared to the Nikons which is another factor to decide on .

Geoff,

Thats true but the Pentax's offer a sharp contrasty view to the edge of the slightly narrow FOV will retaining 20mm of eye-relief. The Nikon's are not as sharp at the EOF albeit the field is larger. Blurry stars the size of soccer balls at the edge of a wide field of view don't row my boat I am afraid.

Ahhhhhhhhhh FI why doesn't Mark just open his wallet and buy the Nikon 10x42 SE Porro's. Optically they are about as good as it gets and no one can find fault with em. Unfortunately they are well over $1,000. Oops they ain't waterproof

CS-John B

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Ken,
Actually I think your the one that got ripped off maybe ?
The largest porro prism binoculars that Pentax "currently" makes/sells are the 20x60 PCF WP II and you can buy these for about $300.
If your talking about paying over $500 for any of the Pentax roof prism binos I can understand the price, because roof prism binos are a "LOT" more expensive than porros and at the lower price levels (under $1,500) are not as good as porros for astronomy, however these aren't even close to being considered "giant". Which model and size Pentax Binos are you referring ? Something from years past maybe early PCF's or PCF III's, PCF V which were more expensive in the early days ? Its worth noting that the early PCF binoculars, up to the PCF III's were made in Japan. The later PCF series (V and WP) I believe are assembled in China from Japanese components.
CS-John B

John,

Apology on the way I explain things. Giant to me meant bigger than my Andrews ones. They are ASAHI PENTAX AOCO and are actually only 8x40 widefield 9.5 degrees. I'll have to watch my termanologies! Cheryls Dad bought them overseas 15 - 20 years ago and they are made in Japan. Cheryls Mum said he paid around $500 for them. He didn't care about the price as the police (he was a cop) reimbursed him anyway.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by johnno

Hi All,
Mark,
I forgot to mention,Lee Andrews website has some really good Binoculars on sale now, many different sizes,a lot with full multicoating,and Bak-4 prisms.

John,

I don't mean to nit pick and I am not taking a cheap shot in any way but I think we need to understand the difference between "really good binoculars" and "the rest" for the sake of others that may read this thread and for the sake of those that have not used top quality binoculars. I am also not taking a cheap shot at Lee Andrews in any way either, Lee is a great bloke and sells what the majority of people wish to buy and that is "a good serviceable product at a competitive price".

Lee doesn't sell any "really good binoculars". "Really Good Binoculars" are made by companies like Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Miyauchi, Takahashi, Nikon, Minox, Steiner and Swarovski and made in either Germany or Japan and all cost way over $1,000. Its worth noting that companies like Nikon, Canon and Pentax produce some very expensive top quality binoculars which are made in Japan and they also produce some mid level good quality products made under licence in China and they also produce some total crap made in China so just because a product is labelled as Nikon or Pentax doesn't mean its top quality, it does mean that at least the product is distributed and supported by a reputable manufacturer.

There are a large number of optical manufacturers in China that produce reasonable products and a large number that produce junk, so it helps to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff. Some of the junk that is produced in China is sold in Australia at ridiculously high prices given the optical and mechanical quality of the product. A lot of people search for bargains but some of the stuff out of China aint a bargain, it sells for like $200 and should sell for $20. Reputable people like Lee Andrews "usually" sell products manufactured by the more reliable Chinese manufactuers but Caveat Emptor, particularly in respect of E-Bay sellers and the like.

If you have never used a pair of top quality astronomical binoculars like the big Zeiss 15x60 BGAT Classics or the Takahashi 22x60 Flourite APO binoculars or the 16x70 Fujinons, I suggest you try to do so when you next attend a public star party as they really provide wonderful views compared to lesser quality products, but then again with their price tags so they should (eg the Zeiss are no longer available but cost well over $3k).

CS-John B

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

John,

Apology on the way I explain things. Giant to me meant bigger than my Andrews ones. They are ASAHI PENTAX AOCO and are actually only 8x40 widefield 9.5 degrees. I'll have to watch my termanologies! Cheryls Dad bought them overseas 15 - 20 years ago and they are made in Japan. Cheryls Mum said he paid around $500 for them. He didn't care about the price as the police (he was a cop) reimbursed him anyway.

Ken,

No need for any apology. What your saying makes a lot of sense as the price of mid level binoculars has dropped remarkably in the last 20 years and the quality has increased by about the same amount. 20 years ago $500 bought you a "fair" pair of binoculars and now $400 will buy you a much better pair by comparison so its all good.

CS-John B

[Darkplague]

Gosh, all this information to take in.

Thanks everyone for your input. I've learnt alot from all of you and have decided to spend a little more and get something decent. (not from e-bay).

Atm I am just tossing up which dob to get from Andrews, and since they are throwing in a set of binoculars, maybe if I pay him a little bit extra on top, he may upgrade me to a much better pair of binos. Worth a try anyway.

[johnno]

Hi All,
John,
You are quite right I may have been a little overeager to help,with my description of "really good binoculars",however I feel a lot of the ones you mention while,they are certainly the best of the best,are often way out of the pricerange of the majority of people,so to me, really good binoculars,are the ones that satisfy most "good" criteria,at a price most of us can afford.
My apologies if my description was misleading.I will delete the posts,so no one else will be mislead
I must learn to curb my enthusiasm.
Regards.John

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

John,

I certainly didn't mean to dampen your enthusiasm or for you to delete your post. I think your post contained a lot of relevant information as the products that Andrews sells will be the quality and price level that lots of people are looking to buy, they may be the price and quality level Mark is looking for, then again he may want something a little better, thats his decision. The products Andrews sells are good and serviceable and very competitively priced. I was only trying to point out they weren't close to the best that is available to someone with a "FAT" wallet. We always need to be aware that to some people money isn't an issue and they wish to purchase the best quality money can buy, the majority of us need to be a little bit budget conscious and in this regard Andrews provides a great service to the amateur astronomy community.

My apologies if you took my post the wrong way, sometimes its difficult to put onto keyboard what your trying to say and to say it in the correct tone.

CS-John B

[slice of heaven]

Ditto what John B said Johnno.Your posts raised points which led to a good discussion and people are more informed because of that.

[johnno]

Hi,John and Slice,
No Problems.Thanks for your reply.
Regards.John