EQ alignment - Polemaster VS ASIAIR and Plate Solving?

[vk3bq (Andrew)]

New to an EQ mount and polar alignment, and looking at the best option for proper (easy) polar alignment?

is the Polemaster the gold standard? i'm reading that the ASIAIR device can Polar align using plate solving?

Should I just go down the ASIAIR path? (to manage alignment, and then tracking?)

Seems stock shortages of the ASIAIR might make me have to head to the Polemaster path, even initially?

or do people recommend the polemaster as the best approach? even with an ASIAIR device in the future?

thanks
Andrew

[mldee (Mike)]

You may want to check NINA software, which is free, and also does PA using plate solving, with a good user interface.

[Startrek (Martin)]

If your using a Skywatcher , Orion or Saxon EQ mount ( EQ5 , HEQ5, EQ6 , EQ6-R , EQ8-R etc... ) the Synscan handcontroller has a built in polar alignment feature that is just as accurate as pole master and does not need a view of the pole ( just 2 alignment stars out in the south east to east.
I’ve been using it for 5 years and I’m polar aligned under an arc minute in about 10 minutes.
You can use your capture software like Nina , APT etc.., for star alignment centering.
A lot of folk who have Skywatcher mounts are not aware of this feature and buy software with PA tools etc.. like Pole master which is an additional unnecessary expenditure.
If your mount is another brand like Celestron etc.. then ignore the above
Cheers

[vk3bq (Andrew)]

thanks Mike , ill have to dig out a windows laptop and see what NINA can provide (Mac user)

thanks Martin, its an EQ6R, ill have to have a better play with the controller align a little more to see how I go before splashing money, assumed I needed to spend more $$ for a quick/fast/easy way to PA.

thanks

[Startrek (Martin)]

Originally Posted by vk3bq

thanks Mike , ill have to dig out a windows laptop and see what NINA can provide (Mac user)

thanks Martin, its an EQ6R, ill have to have a better play with the controller align a little more to see how I go before splashing money, assumed I needed to spend more $$ for a quick/fast/easy way to PA.

thanks

Andrew,
Glad to offer some advice
I have 2 x EQ6-R mounts ( 2018 model and 2019 model with the USB2B port ) at two different locations , excellent mount in the lower to mid end 20kg class.
Here’s how to use the Synscan polar alignment method ( I use my old Canon 600D and BYEOS for PA. BYEOS with the Canon has a really good and responsive live view with no delay or buffering like a dedicated Astro camera.
See attached
Cheers
Martin

[AdamJL]

Originally Posted by vk3bq

thanks Mike , ill have to dig out a windows laptop and see what NINA can provide (Mac user)

thanks Martin, its an EQ6R, ill have to have a better play with the controller align a little more to see how I go before splashing money, assumed I needed to spend more $$ for a quick/fast/easy way to PA.

thanks

I've got an EQ6-R and use both the Polemaster and NINA alignment method.

I tend to use the Polemaster first. It requires an extra USB slot, but generally it's quite accurate and I can be polar aligned within about 3-4minutes. It's hyper accurate when done right and your seeing is good.

NINA I've tried and it's probably a minute or two slower, though that could be because I'm getting used to it. Good thing about NINA's routine is that it doesn't require a view of the pole, so you can polar align from anywhere.

[Dave882 (David)]

Hi Andrew- the ASIAIR is extremely easy to use for PA. It basically platesolves in one position, moves RA 60degress and platesolves again after which it just instructs you which way to adjust your bolts and by how much. It’s uncommon for my to spend more than a few minutes getting my PA to within 10-20 arcsec total error. You do of course need to purchase an ASIAIR which may be easier said than done. There are other alternatives that are cheap or free, but I doubt any of them can beat ASIAIR for ease of use.

[AdamJL]

Originally Posted by Dave882

Hi Andrew- the ASIAIR is extremely easy to use for PA. It basically platesolves in one position, moves RA 60degress and platesolves again after which it just instructs you which way to adjust your bolts and by how much. It’s uncommon for my to spend more than a few minutes getting my PA to within 10-20 arcsec total error. You do of course need to purchase an ASIAIR which may be easier said than done. There are other alternatives that are cheap or free, but I doubt any of them can beat ASIAIR for ease of use.

Funnily enough, the ASI Air Polar Alignment routine uses NINA's codebase
Because NINA is open source, ZWO took the code and used it for their device (which is platform locked in)... make of that what you will!

[Dave882 (David)]

Hmm very interesting indeed! Especially since now ASIAIR is offering the new “all sky pa” routine now. But I have to say their UI is beautiful

[floyd_2 (Dean)]

You could also consider using Sharpcap for polar alignment. I think the Pro version might be the only version that has PA included, but I'm not sure as I've only used the pro version. PA in Sharpcap requires you to have a view of the SCP so may be more limited than what Nina or ASIAir can offer. Just another option anyway.

[kon1966 (Kon)]

I always could never get it right until I bought Ioptron Ipolar. No rotation needed just adjust alt and az.

Regards
Kon

[Smurph (Glen)]

I use the SharpCap PA routine and it has worked very well for me. Usually get excellent PA within a few minutes. The only drawback is that it requires a view of the SCP, and the paid version of SharpCap. I’m hoping to try the beta version of NINA and try the three star alignment in that over the next week or so. I was considering the pole master, but couldn’t justify the cost, personally (especially when compared to the cost of a SharpCap license).

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Sharpcap routine or polemaster

[Startrek (Martin)]

Originally Posted by AdamJL

Funnily enough, the ASI Air Polar Alignment routine uses NINA's codebase
Because NINA is open source, ZWO took the code and used it for their device (which is platform locked in)... make of that what you will!

The Synscan PA routine was one of the earliest iterative PA alignment process systems requiring only 2 stars and no view of SCP developed by Synta 17 years ago.
I wonder who copied the idea from them ?
I use it and it’s free
I’m sceptical about these incredibly low PA errors from various other PA alignment software systems below 0.50 arc sec using clunky bolts and hand thread torque or pressure
I get mine to just under an arc minute with Syncan ( using a zoomed in mag 2 star slightly defocused) and the guide assistant in PHD2 says 2.5 arc min
IMO PA error is a moving target each night due to atmospheric dispersion
Your thoughts on PA error values

[RyanJones]

Originally Posted by Dave882

Hi Andrew- the ASIAIR is extremely easy to use for PA. It basically platesolves in one position, moves RA 60degress and platesolves again after which it just instructs you which way to adjust your bolts and by how much. It’s uncommon for my to spend more than a few minutes getting my PA to within 10-20 arcsec total error. You do of course need to purchase an ASIAIR which may be easier said than done. There are other alternatives that are cheap or free, but I doubt any of them can beat ASIAIR for ease of use.

I’ll second that. About the same accuracy in PA in under 5 mins. Very easy to use. Obviously it means buying an ASIair but then it offers you so much more than just an easy PA routine too.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Sharpcap seems to work well, although I’ve also used DARV in the past that doesn’t require a view of the pole (which can be problematic up here in suburban QLD as the pole is low!)

The great thing with most of these methods is that they don’t require “one trick pony” hardware… you just use your main imaging camera to assist with the polar alignment.

[vk3bq (Andrew)]

being a Mac user, and not wanting to deal with long cables or a mini PC/laptop outside, I ended up with an ASIAIR, and its working well for PA (and tracking). happy I went that way.

[Dilsh]

When you are starting out with PA, having to rely on a view on the south celestial pole without a star to guide you can get frustrating and annoying. The beauty of platesolving and star alignment is that you only have to know roughly where south is and your telescope only needs a view of some of the night sky to polar align. This can be North, South, East or West. Therefore, polar aligning using programs/hardware like NINA or ASIAIR can be the best option for beginners and pros alike.

The issue with the ASIAIR is that it will force you into the ZWO family. This is a fine decision if this is what you want to do. However you will not know if this is the right fit as a beginner. Therefore, I would recommend you use NINA which is free and works with most equipment. The PA routine is super easy to use and and a great user interface. I am PA in under 5 mins most of the time. If you find yourself loving all ZWO products that by all means go for ASIAIR. At the moment my setup uses hardware from 7 different brands and it all works seamlessly with NINA.

Best of luck,

Dilshan

[TeamG (Glenn)]

If you're planning on the AAP then would recommend not getting a polemaster as it's not compatible (and redundant because the AAP polar aligns through your main scope)

Personally, I wish I had gone straight to the AAP instead of the Polemaster first, but back then I didn't know what I didn't know.

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

I have used most of the methods mentioned here- the any star polar align feature which was introduced on Celestron mounts before it found its way to Skywatcher (both made in the same factory of course); then Polemaster; then SharpCap and now ASIAIR. Hands down ASIAIR is the easiest.

Since I have non ZWO equipment I continue to use SharpCap at home when I am working on a laptop/ MiniPc

If I am in a dark site I just find it so much easier to use the ASIAIR. Not just polar alignment but easier cable management including for dew heaters; no need to have an inverter for 240 v to run a laptop and so on

To avoid sounding like a ZWO fan boy I need to add that it’s annoying being locked into the ZWO ecosystem. Fortunately I can still use a Canon but can’t use my QHY gear.

Another option, not mentioned above is Astroberry or Stellarmate which offer PA functionality. Lot - a whole lot - more tinkering to get these INDI / Raspberry Pi based systems to work though, at least in my experience..so after trying for a while I gave up and just bought an ASIAIR