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  #121  
Old 05-03-2007, 11:27 AM
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Yes rot started very much longer ago and then the false facade of might collapsed for the reason I mentioned.

Ah Karl48 I wrote a piece on another astronomy forum about that which you just wrote.

I can't agree North Pole is actually South Pole but I can say this the North Pole is due to earlier Europeans in the North of our World having invented the magnetic compass and found the needle point 'up'.

In their life up was 'north'.

And of course that led to East being right on maps and West being left with South being down below.

I suppose if it was invented in say Australia and the needle pointed south (South Magnetic Pole) then North would be opposite today's definition.

In any event when the poles flip North will be South.
  #122  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:00 PM
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This will be my last post on this subject coz I am just repeating my self now. The handfull of GW skeptics left can argue their point point till the cows come home but The facts are GW is happening now and man is the major contributer.

Earth is our only home and will be for a very long time so lets start looking after it. It is our lifestyle and over consumption that is pushing our Earths fragile ecosystem to its limits, it will come back and bite us on our bottoms unless we get our heads out of the sand and do something about it.

Australia is the worlds largest per capita emmiter of CO2 closely followed by the US but our spineless pollies can't even sign up to the very reasonable targets set by Kyoto, truly pathetic. There is no need to point the finger at China either their per capita emmisions are 6 times smaller than ours and despite the lack of political leadership from Australia and the US at least they admit global warming is a real problem and are doing something about it despite an enormous population of over 1300 million.

My hat goes of to the likes of Tim Flannery, Al Gore, David Attenborough and others that have bought GW to the mainstream despite the obstacles placed the way by vested interests.

I am very passionate about this subject so my apologies if I put anyones nose out of joint Ooorooo
  #123  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:38 PM
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Yes Karl we should ask who stands to profit? . I have no idea where nuclear energy brain power resides or who is at the cutting edge of desalination research but I bet who ever they are, they pay money to the global warming crew .. It should not take much to lay these accusations at someone’s door I would imagine..Maybe there will be answers found by digging to find the answer to that question..who will get the cash????..who?? Australian business interests?..doubt it. They may unload the boat, ship the goods and even erect the things but is it Australian industry that benefits? .. why do I already doubt any Aussie will get more than ZIP.
Well Micko you don’t put my nose outta joint and it’s already been broken in two places . I don’t know that I agree that we are causing “historic Climate Change” I do agree we polute wastefully and un necessarily but that is not the point.. however if we are hastening the Historic Climate Change there is no need to become frantic and convinced we can stop it..irrespective of who says we can. The protocol, will fail, even if targets are reached, and they will not be reached, and also it leaves many of the big contributors out of the picture, just the USA China India but that wont prevent those involved selling nuclear power and desalinators. Look into what will be achieved even if the protocol is reached.. mere fraction of the problem is being addressed and it is being addressed in a stupid stupid fashion that only pays lip service to recognising the problem ..but it does nothing absolutely nothing other than run up lawyers and consultants fees (plus air fares to have meetings etc etc) (think it thru get the facts and you will dispair that it is a sham.. simply a sham) As to the likes of Mr Gore being a public minded citizen I doubt it.. big money people don’t often do anything unless there is a gain in their interest available in the result. Power I would put forward as his motivator ..I doubt if his eyes are anywhere but on the white house ..I can see him being thrust reluctantly into power in the same way we could see Elvis Presley elected or even “the Terminator” be realistic votes are gained not by lodgic but by who likes you baby..Miko not everyone is as nice as you, as honest as you or as caring and responsible as you. On the bright side Mr Gore will do some good but will it be washed away by the evil he lets flourish as a result of his aiding a scare campainge. Many in power are money hungry gutzes maybe he is not one but the general proposition is sad but true. Ask “what does he want out of it?”.. to be able to sleep better at night?..well take a bus Mr Gore..take the train Mr Gore.. Change your house to full solar and a battery bank poor folk can only imagine..and don’t tell me the formula says its not energy efficient or I will throw up.. Mr Gore put your money where your mouth is.. easy really but does he? I say Historic Climate Change is unstoppable because history says we are going to have it..maybe we are speeding it up , that means we will have deal with the consequences not its prevention..certainly going nuclear won’t stop it..so let’s see the future… the nuclear power stations are up and running..how many does the world need?? Do the sums… How long will the fuel then last?..maybe long enough to do something constructive, but when the fuel is gone and the profits from the sale of yellow cake will be invested elsewhere…where will we be then??..plenty of waste to dispose of and still looking for a solution…lets look for the real solution now not later. Has anyone crying foul sat down and done any sums to see how cheap it is to go solar on their own house? We have electric cars that reduce car omissions by 50% but I have yet to see one..maybe they are on their way but it makes me wonder why GMH and Ford are busy building race cars and not electric cars .. its about money folks pure and simple, any folk we get to hear banging the drum have a vested financial interest to promote the fear...many simply as paid presenters whose personal view is irrelevant as they only read their script, the same as if they were selling toothpaste or soap . Look at the adds.. the crap we get day in day out ..they cost money..they are not funded by some do gooder wanting to save humanity . The lobby power behind this thing is huge (obviously they must control our uranium by now but I am afraid to look to see who now has it.).Yellow cake is not something you need to keep in the control of our nation..is it? ..so please try to see who is peddling what and what they seek to gain. That is the way of the world it is not a new concept thought up by me..Ask who will get the cash??? Why have our pollies rolled over? Who is doing the lobby work? Investors or do good concerned folk?. Why this week do we get this greater than thou crap from our PM..usually when that stuff is being pulled out for the press there are bigger fish being fried out the back ..I know its all my imagination ..well tell me in six months what part I got wrong .
alex
  #124  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:49 PM
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The North South thing suggests to me that indeed the North Pole is indeed a "South" pole in magnatism speak. Just look which pole of a magnet points North if it is the North pole of a magnet that points North then the North pole is in fact a "South" pole. See nothing is ever the way it seems or as we may have had it well intrenched in our belief system.
alex
  #125  
Old 05-03-2007, 03:07 PM
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And thats it from me on this for a couple of days at least , I am addressing real issues in my real life . Some of which are related directly to becoming more energy efficient ..putting my money where my mouth is one could say . So if you recon I am off track you can have a three day go at making me look "not real" without fear that I will cloud the issue with facts . Which I have not brought to bear at this point but I say they are even stronger than my views .
alex
  #126  
Old 06-03-2007, 10:00 AM
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I know this has nothing to do with GW but I'm here in a small town in Southern Ontario absolutely isolated from the outside.

We have:

Snow Squall Warnings: 10 - 20 cms
Wind Chill Warnings: to minus 35C
White Out Warnings: all roads closed
Wind Warning: to 90 km
Roads: all closed

Now as you mostly enjoy the Summer of the South in Australia I trust you could possibly appreciate that which we in the Queen of Snows goes through in Winter.

Actually after 14 years in this location this is by far the worst.

Today is my birthday and I'm just taking it easy. My wife could not even take my out for dinner as nothing is open.
  #127  
Old 06-03-2007, 10:44 AM
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Nothing is over until it is over. The GW issue is not even close to being over.
The GW issue has been set up as a media event.(Maurice Strong and Rio '90)

Media types are not scientific but they are good at Chicken Little stuff as that sells the papers.

In the '80's the Chicken Little was a coming Ice Age and then boom Strong showed up.

Media moved to the new Chicken Little and so did these non producers called 'environmentalists'. You know - follow the money!

It is not exactly the Flavour of the Month but it sure is close.

We all want cleaner air. We all want clean water. We all know that is possible with enough spent to do that.

Unfortunately the money is being spent on a false activity which we mere humans have zero chance of influencing.

Think about that.
  #128  
Old 06-03-2007, 11:41 AM
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"Man can shape his world if he does not resign himself to ignorance" -Pearl Buck 1938 Nobel Prize for Literature.
  #129  
Old 06-03-2007, 12:09 PM
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Alex - I enjoy reading your reply posts, but could I humbly ask that you put in some paragraph breaks every so often? It's so hard to read......

Cheers - and keep contributing
Chris
  #130  
Old 06-03-2007, 12:15 PM
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My Dear xstream,

That is a bit of deep philosophical writing.

Ignorance is the lack of knowledge or education.

Resign is to accept an inevitable.

So if I and others have lack of knowledge or education and except the inevitable are we ignorant?

Frankly that quote is very obscure.

The ignorance is the 98% that don't pay attention.
  #131  
Old 06-03-2007, 12:25 PM
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It's not that obscure to me, It makes perfect sense.
We have the power and ability to do everything or nothing, it's our choice.

Cheers
  #132  
Old 06-03-2007, 12:57 PM
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Right ric we do have the power but we lack the will to solve the real issues that bear on this World - the ones on which we can truly have an effect.

If you still believe that we mere humans are bigger than Mother Nature on the GW file I know not how that can be.

On the other hand we are bigger than all the ills in our World but we do not take these on. We are being diverted to GW. Ask yourself why?

Explain the reason for that.
  #133  
Old 06-03-2007, 01:16 PM
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Simple, theres no profit, power or gain in it.
We are not bigger than nature but we can assist it, why don't we, because the voice of global corporations are in the ears of governments all over the world and they dont make a profit from it.
I agree we are bigger than the ills of the world, but if a company in Nation "A" develops a cure for AIDs would they give it free and without reserve to Nation "B" whose population is dying I doubt it greatly.

Cheers
  #134  
Old 07-03-2007, 01:42 PM
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Ric,

Capitalism is not about a free lunch even if such would be altruistic.

There is no such thing as a free lunch and I'm sure you know that.

Maybe that is not fair as we see it. But that is the way it is otherwise I suppose we would all have nothing to do but sit around and hope a mysterious someone would show up to feed us, to clothe us to provide heat/cool for us.

Seems to me that is close to science fiction. Ever see the movie The Time Machine - 1969 and not the crappy repeat?

So we live in a world where we have to do things to survive.

Of course we don't live in a perfect world where one would expect to make an AIDS vaccine/drug to be made free by a company.

It can only be made 'free' by a government buying it with our tax dollars.

Anyway you picked on a bad on there as AIDS is 100% avoidable.

Now if you had picked on Malaria I sure could see your point.

In any event none of this has to do with GW.
  #135  
Old 07-03-2007, 03:13 PM
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AIDS was the first one I thought of as an example, it can apply to any disease, Malaria, Cholera, small pox, Berry Berry, Ebola etc etc.
I'm sure that children born with AIDS wouldn't agree with you that it is 100% avoidable.
If governments stopped spending trillions on warfare for a start maybe it could be free

Cheers
  #136  
Old 08-03-2007, 09:46 AM
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Hi Ric,


Well by 100% avoidable I always understood if a condom is used then AIDS is not transmitted. Am I incorrectly informed?

As to the children to me that is not a fair statement.

John

PS I know we have wandered off topic

As to spending trillions on warfare no argument here. That is so sad.

I read an article recently that the USA affair in Iraq has direct/indirect costs heading to 1.3 trillion dollars as of now. Some wag made a list of what that money could do in the USA to improve life there: universal health care was at the top using 40% of the Iraq war cost and so on.
  #137  
Old 08-03-2007, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaroo View Post
Alex - I enjoy reading your reply posts, but could I humbly ask that you put in some paragraph breaks every so often? It's so hard to read......

Cheers - and keep contributing
Chris
Thanks for the encouragement Chris and I will take on your advice re paras. Good suggestion .
Alex
  #138  
Old 08-03-2007, 05:19 PM
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Welcome back Alex
  #139  
Old 08-03-2007, 09:22 PM
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Looks like I may have beeen wrong as to what fish were being fried this week unless they are holding something back ..mustta been all that mud throwing so as we did not notice the Qantas thing ... the rain mustta been a worry for the desalinator sales folk .
Thanks for the welcome back Ron I was only up home doing real stuff with a garden shed ..as they say . Dam wet up there we are in a permanent cloud we are slightly above it most of the time and it feels like we are on an island in the sky . Solar power was harvested never the less and power tools could still be used
alex
  #140  
Old 09-03-2007, 11:00 AM
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This is from a friend in the UK tonight. I don't get that channel here:

I am currently watching a program on the great global warming swindle on our channel 4
- very interesting facts coming out- scientists that have insisted their names be taken off the IPCC report as it has been warped so far from the truth, the facts that carbon dioxide levels lag the temperature changes by 800 years, how the sun activity directly affects cloud levels which in turn affect the temperature. how events are buffered by maybe thousands of years by the huge bulk of the oceans (whose temperature changes in turn trigger carbon dioxide levels. How volcano's give out more carbon dioxide per year than humans, by a factor of hundreds. etc etc
a very interesting documentary looking into the hype that is global warming they also are saying that the money is in globat warming, how it is the tail wagging the dog.
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